Sabres Implications from Affiliate Change

[inkman]

With all the finger pointing and name calling from the Sabres/Amerks divorce I wanted to discuss the implications that this separation will have on Buffalo.

 

1) Availability of players. With the Amerks a player could be called up and ready to play in slightly more than an hour. Now it will effectively take an entire day to get a player, from Portland to Buffalo, ready to play. This may require the Sabres carry an extra player, most likey Nathan Paetsch as his ability to play both forward and defense has likey locked him in organizationally for the next 3 years. His salary will not be a major concern as I don't see the Sabres getting too close to the cap but if they do ever get close to the cap this new affliation will not be beneficial.

 

2) Marketing. The Buffalo Sabres will retain many loyal fans throughout the Rochester area but as time goes on if this affiliation continues, less and less Amerks fans will become Sabres fans as the affiliation may steer them toward the Panthers or whoever will be Rochester's parent club. The immediate financial impact may even benefit the Sabres as more Rochester Sabres fans may be willing to go the Buffalo to see hockey as they have to emotional ties to the Rochester team. In the long run though, if the Sabres and Amerks do not come back toghether, I can only imagine a sharp decline of Rochester based Sabres fans.

 

3) Player eligiblity. With the previous administration, a player would only be called upon if necessary as the call ups were only an hour away. With more players called up to insure a full roster with injured/sick players, Sabres prospect's minor league eligibilty will decrease as they earn more big league time (I think :unsure: ). This will affect player contracts, and decisions on who to call up as to not affect eligbilty. Why call up player A who may be slighly better than player B, when player B has no NHL time and his minor league days can be prolonged.

 

 

Just some thoughts to keep this offseason talk stimulated.

[tom webster]

With all the finger pointing and name calling from the Sabres/Amerks divorce I wanted to discuss the implications that this separation will have on Buffalo.

 

1) Availability of players. With the Amerks a player could be called up and ready to play in slightly more than an hour. Now it will effectively take an entire day to get a player, from Portland to Buffalo, ready to play. This may require the Sabres carry an extra player, most likey Nathan Paetsch as his ability to play both forward and defense has likey locked him in organizationally for the next 3 years. His salary will not be a major concern as I don't see the Sabres getting too close to the cap but if they do ever get close to the cap this new affliation will not be beneficial.

 

2) Marketing. The Buffalo Sabres will retain many loyal fans throughout the Rochester area but as time goes on if this affiliation continues, less and less Amerks fans will become Sabres fans as the affiliation may steer them toward the Panthers or whoever will be Rochester's parent club. The immediate financial impact may even benefit the Sabres as more Rochester Sabres fans may be willing to go the Buffalo to see hockey as they have to emotional ties to the Rochester team. In the long run though, if the Sabres and Amerks do not come back toghether, I can only imagine a sharp decline of Rochester based Sabres fans.

 

3) Player eligiblity. With the previous administration, a player would only be called upon if necessary as the call ups were only an hour away. With more players called up to insure a full roster with injured/sick players, Sabres prospect's minor league eligibilty will decrease as they earn more big league time (I think :unsure: ). This will affect player contracts, and decisions on who to call up as to not affect eligbilty. Why call up player A who may be slighly better than player B, when player B has no NHL time and his minor league days can be prolonged.

Just some thoughts to keep this offseason talk stimulated.

 

This felt like a good time to come back. I will address any shots directed toward me regarding the "cheap" talk at a later date.

 

1) There are 12 flights with layover that can get a player to Buffalo within 4 hours and several flights out of Boston( two hour drive plus 80 minute non-stop flight, so getting players to Buffalo should not be an issue. Since Buffalo, like most teams post lock-out carry 22 instead of the maximum 23 players on their roster this shouldn't be an issue.

 

2) There is a potential for a reverse effect. Buffalo can now market the Rochester full throttle without worrying about upsetting their minor league affiliate.

 

3) Unlike Baseball, I do not believe that a players minor league options change by the amount of time spent in the NHL. I believe it is strictly a function of age. I know that players become eligible for UFA at 27 unless they have 7 full years of NHL service before that age but I don't have time to read the CBA to clarify. Maybe Shraeder can help. I think contract clauses and bones do play a part in call ups and Buffalo is one team that always takes full advantage of their contractual rights.

[inkman]

3) Unlike Baseball, I do not believe that a players minor league options change by the amount of time spent in the NHL.

 

Waivers anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, do you just look for my posts so you can refute them? If so, I'll just stop coming here. We're getting a puppy and I'm sure there are some good dog boards I can visit. :rolleyes:

[That Aud Smell]

this is a great post, ink - glad to see that your aversion to the

 

elements on SS has diminished somewhat (i won't go so far as to infer that there's been any dimunition of those elements).

 

in terms of importance, i rank the issues in the following order: 2, 3 and 1. item 2, to me, is a biggie: because of the team's success with developing guys like miller, vanek, roy, pominville, and yes even max, i've met over the years lots of fans in the arena who were from the roc and would've never thought to make the trip if those guys hadn't gone on to the parent club. :(

[That Aud Smell]

2) There is a potential for a reverse effect. Buffalo can now market the Rochester full throttle without worrying about upsetting their minor league affiliate.

good to see t-web back.

 

this is an intriguing point. while we'll have to wait to see how it plays out, i suspect that the "organic" means of marketing that arose from hockey fans becoming attached to amerks players and then following them to buffalo will prove to be more effective than any orchestrated marketing campaign the sabres might push. the former can be likened to marketing "buzz" (just about always good, just about always genuine), while the latter is probably more in the way of "hype" (which is of more uncertain value).

[tom webster]

Waivers anyone?

BTW, do you just look for my posts so you can refute them? If so, I'll just stop coming here. We're getting a puppy and I'm sure there are some good dog boards I can visit. :rolleyes:

 

Actually, I like responding to your posts because I respect them. Besides, I wasn't actually refuting it, just giving my opinion.

What kind of puppy? My kids have been begging me for a golden retriever. Any suggestions?

[shrader]

3) Unlike Baseball, I do not believe that a players minor league options change by the amount of time spent in the NHL. I believe it is strictly a function of age. I know that players become eligible for UFA at 27 unless they have 7 full years of NHL service before that age but I don't have time to read the CBA to clarify. Maybe Shraeder can help. I think contract clauses and bones do play a part in call ups and Buffalo is one team that always takes full advantage of their contractual rights.

 

It really shouldn't be a problem. I'm not going to look up the specifics, but its generally 3 years as a professional or a specific number of games played at the NHL level before a player is eligible for waivers. The games played number is high enough that if a guy reaches that point, he's most likely an every day player anyway and the team wouldn't be sending him down.

 

As for UFA status, you hit the nail on the head with that one. Its 7 years/27 years old, so this change has no effect on that at all.

[inkman]

Actually, I like responding to your posts because I respect them. Besides, I wasn't actually refuting it, just giving my opinion.

What kind of puppy? My kids have been begging me for a golden retriever. Any suggestions?

We are getting a black lab from kresland kennels in Victor. They are expensive but we have first hand knowledge of the breeds lineage and how great they are.

[shrader]

We are getting a black lab from kresland kennels in Victor. They are expensive but we have first hand knowledge of the breeds lineage and how great they are.

 

And I'll be stealing this puppy from you.

[ROC Sabres]

I can only imagine a sharp decline of Rochester based Sabres fans.

 

The drive for the Amerks to HSBC is just as far of a drive as it is for a fan. I'll still be driving out to buffalo whenever i can to go see a game. Bringing in new fans may be more of a problem but anyone that goes to watch the Amerks (in most cases), went because they were sabres future players. Now their not so not many people aren't going to care to see them. Just my thoughts.

[MajorMinotaur]

I highly doubt your gonna have a lot of fans turn into panthers fans unless they set up a TV deal to show panthers games on TV in rochester. Until they do that, the sabres are still the most televised and closest NHL team in rochester.

[darksabre]

I highly doubt your gonna have a lot of fans turn into panthers fans unless they set up a TV deal to show panthers games on TV in rochester. Until they do that, the sabres are still the most televised and closest NHL team in rochester.

 

If the Sabres EVER get bumped for Panthers games in Rochester, I'm going downtown and lighting Time Warner on fire. :chris:

[nfreeman]

2) Marketing. The Buffalo Sabres will retain many loyal fans throughout the Rochester area but as time goes on if this affiliation continues, less and less Amerks fans will become Sabres fans as the affiliation may steer them toward the Panthers or whoever will be Rochester's parent club. The immediate financial impact may even benefit the Sabres as more Rochester Sabres fans may be willing to go the Buffalo to see hockey as they have to emotional ties to the Rochester team. In the long run though, if the Sabres and Amerks do not come back toghether, I can only imagine a sharp decline of Rochester based Sabres fans.

 

 

This felt like a good time to come back. I will address any shots directed toward me regarding the "cheap" talk at a later date.

 

2) There is a potential for a reverse effect. Buffalo can now market the Rochester full throttle without worrying about upsetting their minor league affiliate.

 

 

Yesssss! I knew TW would be back. You can take the sabres fan out of the board, but you can't...

 

Anyway, the marketing point is an interesting one. I think there are definitely some Amerks fans who've become Sabres fans out of interest in seeing how the Amerks do once they graduate to the NHL. OTOH, we've heard plenty about how the Bills have helped their fan base & economics substantially by regionalizing their marketing out to Rochester and beyond -- stands to reason that the Sabres could do the same.

 

A few other points:

 

1. I don't know how the economic arrangement works, but I'd guess the Sabres will be spending more by stocking an entire AHL franchise with prospects than they were by sharing one. So maybe all the angst about penny-pinching in the organization (esp w/r/t video scouting) was overblown, and the club doesn't intend to skimp on development of prospects.

 

2. I think having an entire AHL team filled with Sabres prospects has to improve the quality of the pipeline, if nothing else by the law of averages -- ie with 20 of our guys in our system competing for jobs instead of 10, it's twice as likely that good ones will emerge.

 

3. I assume Cunneyworth and his staff will be relocating to Portland, but haven't seen this confirmed anywhere -- does anyone know?

 

Go Sabres. So far, so good this offseason.

 

(Please don't screw up Miller and Pominville...)

[shrader]

3. I assume Cunneyworth and his staff will be relocating to Portland, but haven't seen this confirmed anywhere -- does anyone know?

 

One of the articles on the front page has a quote from Darcy (may have been Quinn, I read it yesterday) saying that they expect Cunneyworth to sign a new contract if he doesn't land an NHL job somewhere. But yes, the staff was under contract with Buffalo, so if any of those contracts haven't yet expired, they'll be a part of the Portland organization.

[Team Strike Force]

I'm curious as to how the affiliation of a minor league team affects the rooting interest for the parent club.

 

I know that there are a number of Cleveland Indians fans in Buffalo. Is this because Buffalo's their AAA affiliate? Did people root for the Pirates back in the 80's for the same reason, and then turn to the Tribe when the affiliation changed?

[Taro T]

With all the finger pointing and name calling from the Sabres/Amerks divorce I wanted to discuss the implications that this separation will have on Buffalo.

 

1) Availability of players. With the Amerks a player could be called up and ready to play in slightly more than an hour. Now it will effectively take an entire day to get a player, from Portland to Buffalo, ready to play. This may require the Sabres carry an extra player, most likey Nathan Paetsch as his ability to play both forward and defense has likey locked him in organizationally for the next 3 years. His salary will not be a major concern as I don't see the Sabres getting too close to the cap but if they do ever get close to the cap this new affliation will not be beneficial.

 

2) Marketing. The Buffalo Sabres will retain many loyal fans throughout the Rochester area but as time goes on if this affiliation continues, less and less Amerks fans will become Sabres fans as the affiliation may steer them toward the Panthers or whoever will be Rochester's parent club. The immediate financial impact may even benefit the Sabres as more Rochester Sabres fans may be willing to go the Buffalo to see hockey as they have to emotional ties to the Rochester team. In the long run though, if the Sabres and Amerks do not come back toghether, I can only imagine a sharp decline of Rochester based Sabres fans.

 

3) Player eligiblity. With the previous administration, a player would only be called upon if necessary as the call ups were only an hour away. With more players called up to insure a full roster with injured/sick players, Sabres prospect's minor league eligibilty will decrease as they earn more big league time (I think :unsure: ). This will affect player contracts, and decisions on who to call up as to not affect eligbilty. Why call up player A who may be slighly better than player B, when player B has no NHL time and his minor league days can be prolonged.

Just some thoughts to keep this offseason talk stimulated.

I wouldn't expect much change in how the team handles player callups/calldowns. I'd expect Peters and Paetsch to be the normal 22nd and 21st bodies on the roster. I'd expect to see a little less risking going with only 21 healthy bodies, but it'll still happen on occasion. The Sabres will probably handle callups all season the way they would when going on a roadtrip in the past.

 

I expect to see the Sabres market HEAVILY in the Ra-cha-cha area, at least if Donner is still taking on a major role in the Amerks which it appears he is planning to have. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, because if it is viewed as if the Sabres are trying to hurt the Amerks there could be a backlash against them. (Remember, there are a lot of Fish fans in Ra-cha-cha that grew up hating the Bills, and our good friend Amerk6 has demonstated that the sentiment isn't limited to football.) Hopefully this is all just a 3 year bump in the road as the Saberk marriage should be a match made in heaven.

 

I don't expect to see more than a handful of Ra-cha-stairians becoming Panther fans (heck, there aren't many Floridian Panther fans for that matter) but could see people start to cheer the Bruins (Amerks old parent) or the Strangers. The Panthers won't get games on TW as the territory is firmly in the Sabres' geographic market.

 

There may be a little bit of gamesmanship regarding waivers and callups, but for the most part it will only deal with players that have had to clear waivers once as that player doesn't have to clear waivers again until he's played 10 more NHL games or been on a roster for 30 days. The 30 day exemption may be a factor in limited circumstances when deciding which guy to call up. For the guys that don't have to clear waivers, simply being up with the big club but not dressing for a game doesn't move them closer to having to clear waivers.

[Wraith]

I'm curious as to how the affiliation of a minor league team affects the rooting interest for the parent club.

 

I know that there are a number of Cleveland Indians fans in Buffalo. Is this because Buffalo's their AAA affiliate? Did people root for the Pirates back in the 80's for the same reason, and then turn to the Tribe when the affiliation changed?

I'm curious as well. One thing to remember with the Buffalo/Cleveland thing is that Cleveland is the closest American team by far to cheer for.

 

I'd like to hear some first hand stories of fans developing an interest in the Sabres because of their affiliation with Rochester. Having grown up in Rochester, I have my doubts that this is very common. The inverse, however, is very true. The Red Wings affiliations with Baltimore and now Minnesota hasn't seemed to generate a lot of affection for those teams...

[Bmwolf21]

I'm curious as to how the affiliation of a minor league team affects the rooting interest for the parent club.

 

I know that there are a number of Cleveland Indians fans in Buffalo. Is this because Buffalo's their AAA affiliate? Did people root for the Pirates back in the 80's for the same reason, and then turn to the Tribe when the affiliation changed?

The big rumor is that the Tribe's AAA affiliate will be Columbus starting next year. No idea who might be Buffalo's part club.

[inkman]

I'd like to hear some first hand stories of fans developing an interest in the Sabres because of their affiliation with Rochester.

 

It is hard for me to remember exactly how it happened. First and foremost I was an Amerks fan growing up. My parents had season tickets and most of my childhood memories of hockey were kicking a smashed cup around the walk-in entrance way to the Zamboni door as a kid between periods and puking the crappy ass War Memorial food when I got home.

 

Despite my traumatic childhood I loosely followed the Amerks through my teens and into my 20's. Right around this time, I was going to Fredonia where my Buffalo based roommates were tuning into Patty LaLa and Alex the Great. So I guess my love for both teams was fostered seperately, at different times and different places. The only difference is that I routinely attended Amerks games and tuned into most Sabres games.

[FogBat]

Availability of players. With the Amerks a player could be called up and ready to play in slightly more than an hour. Now it will effectively take an entire day to get a player, from Portland to Buffalo, ready to play. This may require the Sabres carry an extra player, most likey Nathan Paetsch as his ability to play both forward and defense has likey locked him in organizationally for the next 3 years. His salary will not be a major concern as I don't see the Sabres getting too close to the cap but if they do ever get close to the cap this new affliation will not be beneficial.

Well, it could have been worse on the players. Think about all of those guys who had to hop on a flight all the way from Boston over to LA when Portland was affiliated with the Ducks. Not only are you talking several hours in flight, but also the jetlag with the three hours time zone difference.

 

At least our call-ups shouldn't have to deal with the time zone changes that much (unless they're on a West Coast trip when a player goes down).