Enroth and front office bashers

[Buffalo Fan]

Not hearing a lot of "boy were we wrong about this one" about the signing of Enroth....If the Briere/Drury debacle hadn't happened I'd have to think the Sabres front office would be considered one of the best, and each of these less significant situations wouldn't be so heavily scrutinized...

[Stoner]

They deserve to be bashed. That goes for several front office regimes over the team's history. You can get *this* close to a Cup then spit out the bit only so many times before you have to go Simon Cowell on someone. That said, I really had no big problem with the Drury/Briere/Campbell situations. It's that the Sabres didn't add anything to the mix to keep the team and fan base energized -- and Darcy certainly didn't in any way address the core problem he identified after the Presidents' Trophy playoff ouster: keeping the puck out of the net. Edit: ours. The Sabres remained one of the top scoring teams in the league.

[tom webster]

Not hearing a lot of "boy were we wrong about this one" about the signing of Enroth....If the Briere/Drury debacle hadn't happened I'd have to think the Sabres front office would be considered one of the best, and each of these less significant situations wouldn't be so heavily scrutinized...

 

What exactly was anyone wrong about? There is still some confusion about whether there was a deadline, the Sabres once again waiting till the deadlne, supposed or not, and in the end they got their prospects signed. Did they do anything to change the perception that they are slow to move? Have they done anything proactive yet?

[SwampD]

What exactly was anyone wrong about? There is still some confusion about whether there was a deadline, the Sabres once again waiting till the deadlne, supposed or not, and in the end they got their prospects signed. Did they do anything to change the perception that they are slow to move? Have they done anything proactive yet?

"Methinks he doth protest too much"

[BetweenThePipes00]

What exactly was anyone wrong about? There is still some confusion about whether there was a deadline, the Sabres once again waiting till the deadlne, supposed or not, and in the end they got their prospects signed. Did they do anything to change the perception that they are slow to move? Have they done anything proactive yet?

Come on dude ... are you really playing the "Yeah they got it done but almost didn't" game? It's like, "yeah they won but not by enough" ... It's not like the Sabres are the only team who had unsigned Euros from 2006 ... Philly has four guys still out there and Holmgren is saying the deadline meant nothing ... Darcy said that and no one believes him.

 

I would say signing Gerbe, Kennedy, Enroth and Shutz by June 1 is pretty proactive. All the panic about it a few weeks ago and it was all done a month before free agency. I'm not saying they deserve a raise, but at least admit they are doing their job this offseason so far. The draft is coming, good time to make a deal or two ... they can't even talk to Miller and Pomminstein yet ... so far they are handling the offseason pretty well, they can't do it all before the Cup is even raised.

[tom webster]

Come on dude ... are you really playing the "Yeah they got it done but almost didn't" game? It's like, "yeah they won but not by enough" ... It's not like the Sabres are the only team who had unsigned Euros from 2006 ... Philly has four guys still out there and Holmgren is saying the deadline meant nothing ... Darcy said that and no one believes him.

 

I would say signing Gerbe, Kennedy, Enroth and Shutz by June 1 is pretty proactive. All the panic about it a few weeks ago and it was all done a month before free agency. I'm not saying they deserve a raise, but at least admit they are doing their job this offseason so far. The draft is coming, good time to make a deal or two ... they can't even talk to Miller and Pomminstein yet ... so far they are handling the offseason pretty well, they can't do it all before the Cup is even raised.

 

They have done their job, and as I said they would all along, they got the guys signed. Apparently they ended up paying Gerbe, Kennedy and Enroth the max so the extra time they took resulted in no payroll savings.

Proactive would be getting their RFA's signed.

My point all along has been that if they want to change the perception that their management has, they have to do things differently. As several of us have pointed out, other then Zigomanis and Heisten, they usually get their guys signed. The only draftee that I can recall them giving up on with out signing that turned into anything was Wideman.

They lead the league in number of drafted players playing in the league.

All in all, they have done a great job with this end of the business.

I am waiting to see something different this off season. These signings are nice and were definitely needed to be done, but they were not done out of the ordinary and doing it their way did not result in any payroll savings.

In conclusion, they did what they had to do for the future. now start the process of improving the present because the best thing that can happen is that none of these players wears a Sabre jersey this year.

[BetweenThePipes00]

They have done their job, and as I said they would all along, they got the guys signed. Apparently they ended up paying Gerbe, Kennedy and Enroth the max so the extra time they took resulted in no payroll savings.

Proactive would be getting their RFA's signed. ...

Fair enough on everything else beyond the above, it would be nice to lock up Gaustad or Paille or Bernier I guess ... but the RFAs are what they are, signing them now would not be proactive, you'd just say they barely got it done, and you'd be right. Maybe the agents are in no hurry because they want to see how far the cap moves so they do not short themselves. I know they are restricted but still, the light is at the end of the tunnel, one more month and they can talk to ANYONE about an offer sheet ... why not wait if you are that kid's agent? Not much to lose, highly doubtful the Sabres sign a bunch of free agent forwards and just cut these guys loose. The only way we will know if anything has changed is by what they do with Miller and Pomminstein ... If they are not signed and the roster looks the same as it does today on Sept. 1, I will agree nothing has changed and they just do not get it.

And I still say "extra time" on the prospects is nitpicking when they were all done by June 1. Those three guys all knew their stock was sky high, the Sabres knew it, I doubt they were waiting trying to get a bargain. They knew it would take the max, they were willing to pay it, they got it done, now comes the hard part.

[tom webster]

Fair enough on everything else beyond the above, it would be nice to lock up Gaustad or Paille or Bernier I guess ... but the RFAs are what they are, signing them now would not be proactive, you'd just say they barely got it done, and you'd be right. Maybe the agents are in no hurry because they want to see how far the cap moves so they do not short themselves. I know they are restricted but still, the light is at the end of the tunnel, one more month and they can talk to ANYONE about an offer sheet ... why not wait if you are that kid's agent? Not much to lose, highly doubtful the Sabres sign a bunch of free agent forwards and just cut these guys loose. The only way we will know if anything has changed is by what they do with Miller and Pomminstein ... If they are not signed and the roster looks the same as it does today on Sept. 1, I will agree nothing has changed and they just do not get it.

And I still say "extra time" on the prospects is nitpicking when they were all done by June 1. Those three guys all knew their stock was sky high, the Sabres knew it, I doubt they were waiting trying to get a bargain. They knew it would take the max, they were willing to pay it, they got it done, now comes the hard part.

 

With all due respect, and I do mean that, I hate this argument. Why have any of the UFA's and RFA's signed since January? Why have so many signed since the end of the season? I doubt very much that any of the three are going to get an offer, but why not lock up your guys as;

a) a show of good faith towards them

b) in case you decide to put an offer on someone else's guy

 

Finally, with respect to Enroth, Kennedy and Gerbe, if they knew it would take the max, why wait?

[BamBam]

Not hearing a lot of "boy were we wrong about this one" about the signing of Enroth....If the Briere/Drury debacle hadn't happened I'd have to think the Sabres front office would be considered one of the best, and each of these less significant situations wouldn't be so heavily scrutinized...

 

I'm not a believer of "Quid Pro Quo" or One Hand Washes the Other. Fact is that they did mess up the Drury/Brier thing, and for that they deserve to be questioned by the people who pay into their business. I think its great that they got Butler, Gerbe, Kennedy, and Enroth under contract, and for that I give them all the props in the world. Its nice to see that we are actually signing our draft picks. (Of course, they kind-of have to this year since they will be supplying all the talent to our farm club) but lets not nit-pick.

 

So...at the end of the day...I can applaud them for the great job they did with respect to these signings and live in the now, but it doesn't mean that I was wrong in my displeasure over they way they mishandled our potential Free Agents... and I'm not just talking about CD and DB. Lets not forget Grier, Mckee, Peca, Soupy, etc..

 

One step forward so far in the offseason. I tip my cap to them...Lets hope that its not two steps back with the Draft, Pommer, Miller, Trades, and signing other teams FA's.

[deluca67]

I'm not a believer of "Quid Pro Quo" or One Hand Washes the Other. Fact is that they did mess up the Drury/Brier thing, and for that they deserve to be questioned by the people who pay into their business. I think its great that they got Butler, Gerbe, Kennedy, and Enroth under contract, and for that I give them all the props in the world. Its nice to see that we are actually signing our draft picks. (Of course, they kind-of have to this year since they will be supplying all the talent to our farm club) but lets not nit-pick.

 

So...at the end of the day...I can applaud them for the great job they did with respect to these signings and live in the now, but it doesn't mean that I was wrong in my displeasure over they way they mishandled our potential Free Agents... and I'm not just talking about CD and DB. Lets not forget Grier, Mckee, Peca, Soupy, etc..

 

One step forward so far in the offseason. I tip my cap to them...Lets hope that its not two steps back with the Draft, Pommer, Miller, Trades, and signing other teams FA's.

The Sabres mishandled one free-agent and that was Drury. The rest were decisions that we may not agree with. Just because a player is no longer a Sabre it doen't mean it was mishandled. It's becoming a shame that this is always what it comes down to.

 

This is a time for Sabres fans to be excited. They have some exciting young kids joining the franchise. They also have a couple of #1's this season to add to that list. I don't normally spend a great deal of time following the Amerks, this season I will be paying close attention to whichever team ends up being the affiliate.

 

Quick prospect question. Any chance one of these kids can make the jump right away? Who would be most likely?

[Bmwolf21]

The Sabres mishandled one free-agent and that was Drury. The rest were decisions that we may not agree with. Just because a player is no longer a Sabre it doen't mean it was mishandled. It's becoming a shame that this is always what it comes down to.

 

This is a time for Sabres fans to be excited. They have some exciting young kids joining the franchise. They also have a couple of #1's this season to add to that list. I don't normally spend a great deal of time following the Amerks, this season I will be paying close attention to whichever team ends up being the affiliate.

 

Quick prospect question. Any chance one of these kids can make the jump right away? Who would be most likely?

Exactly. The Drury situation was a screwup, but the bigger screwup was not addressing any of the team's problems AND losing the captains in the same offseason.

[LabattBlue]

Not hearing a lot of "boy were we wrong about this one" about the signing of Enroth....If the Briere/Drury debacle hadn't happened I'd have to think the Sabres front office would be considered one of the best, and each of these less significant situations wouldn't be so heavily scrutinized...

Quinn is still incompetent and Golly is still hording sugar packets! :)

[inkman]

What exactly was anyone wrong about? There is still some confusion about whether there was a deadline, the Sabres once again waiting till the deadlne, supposed or not, and in the end they got their prospects signed. Did they do anything to change the perception that they are slow to move? Have they done anything proactive yet?

A story about the boy who cried wolf come to mind. When you actually have a valid point to make no one will be paying attention...well...outside of Deluca.

[BetweenThePipes00]

With all due respect, and I do mean that, I hate this argument. Why have any of the UFA's and RFA's signed since January? Why have so many signed since the end of the season?

With all due respect, and I mean it too, define "so many." Look at the list of unsigned RFAs ...

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php?t...a&type=none

That's 174 guys. Four of them are Sabres. So either there are a lot of other teams screwing up, or these things are just not as easy as you make them out to be.

I doubt very much that any of the three are going to get an offer,

I agree.

but why not lock up your guys as;

a) a show of good faith towards them

b) in case you decide to put an offer on someone else's guy

Maybe they are negotiating and they just don't WANT to lock all four guys up for a crap load of money for 5 or 6 years and they can't agree on terms. They have a glut of forwards, maybe they don't want to be tied to a couple of them for 5 or 6 years so they want a shorter deal than the player. Maybe they do want someone for 6 years and the kid does not want to give up his first UFA years ... it's not like the prospects where there is a standard deal ... why has Anaheim not signed Corey Perry and Drew Miller? Carolina traded for Gleason and Eaves, obviusly they have plans for them, why are they not signed? These teams won the last two Stanley Cups, it happens to the best of them. Why has Atlanta not signed Kari Lehtonen? Colorado, Svatos and Wolski ... the list goes on ... I doubt there is the gnashing of teeth and rendering of garments in all these other places about this, and a lot of these guys I listed here on just a few teams played bigger roles than the Sabres guys even.

I know, I know, you want them to change the perception. I'm sure they could throw enough money at all of them and get it done by overpaying a bit. And I still say changing perception is not a good enough reason to overpay, especially for someone like MacArthur or Bernier when you are not sure what you have yet. Or even Gaustad, who I like but I think we DO know what he is and it's not a top 6 forward. Do it for Miller or Pomminstein or some UFA on July 1, someone you know you can count on.

 

Finally, with respect to Enroth, Kennedy and Gerbe, if they knew it would take the max, why wait?

I don't know ... maybe some lawyer was on vacation, maybe Darcy doesn't like Kennedy's agent and busted his balls. I don't care why, because it didn't hurt anything. I am just not hung up on this perception issue, and even if I was I don't think it would change by signing 19 year olds. You said it yourself, nothing much has changed in that regard.

The perception will start to change if they lockup Miller and Pomminstein (I swear it's like they are one guy now ... starting in goal and on right wing, number 59, RyanJason MillerPomminstein .....)

[carpandean]

(I swear it's like they are one guy now ... starting in goal and on right wing, number 59, RyanJason MillerPominville .....)

I prefer to call him Ryson Pomiller. :thumbsup:

 

[SabreNod]

What exactly was anyone wrong about? There is still some confusion about whether there was a deadline, the Sabres once again waiting till the deadlne, supposed or not, and in the end they got their prospects signed. Did they do anything to change the perception that they are slow to move? Have they done anything proactive yet?

 

 

So now it's about the "perception" that they are "slow to move" and not that they are cheap and/or let their talent walk? Hmmm. I guess your dartboard is a moving target.

 

Besides, a "perception" that the Sabres are "slow to move" relative to the other teams (which is total BS) would be a "problem" so small as to not merit any discussion even on a fan message board in the team's offseason.

[SabreNod]

A story about the boy who cried wolf come to mind. When you actually have a valid point to make no one will be paying attention...well...outside of Deluca.

 

:thumbsup:

 

So much energy spent on *nothing*

[tom webster]

With all due respect, and I mean it too, define "so many." Look at the list of unsigned RFAs ...

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php?t...a&type=none

That's 174 guys. Four of them are Sabres. So either there are a lot of other teams screwing up, or these things are just not as easy as you make them out to be.

 

I agree.

 

Maybe they are negotiating and they just don't WANT to lock all four guys up for a crap load of money for 5 or 6 years and they can't agree on terms. They have a glut of forwards, maybe they don't want to be tied to a couple of them for 5 or 6 years so they want a shorter deal than the player. Maybe they do want someone for 6 years and the kid does not want to give up his first UFA years ... it's not like the prospects where there is a standard deal ... why has Anaheim not signed Corey Perry and Drew Miller? Carolina traded for Gleason and Eaves, obviusly they have plans for them, why are they not signed? These teams won the last two Stanley Cups, it happens to the best of them. Why has Atlanta not signed Kari Lehtonen? Colorado, Svatos and Wolski ... the list goes on ... I doubt there is the gnashing of teeth and rendering of garments in all these other places about this, and a lot of these guys I listed here on just a few teams played bigger roles than the Sabres guys even.

I know, I know, you want them to change the perception. I'm sure they could throw enough money at all of them and get it done by overpaying a bit. And I still say changing perception is not a good enough reason to overpay, especially for someone like MacArthur or Bernier when you are not sure what you have yet. Or even Gaustad, who I like but I think we DO know what he is and it's not a top 6 forward. Do it for Miller or Pomminstein or some UFA on July 1, someone you know you can count on.

I don't know ... maybe some lawyer was on vacation, maybe Darcy doesn't like Kennedy's agent and busted his balls. I don't care why, because it didn't hurt anything. I am just not hung up on this perception issue, and even if I was I don't think it would change by signing 19 year olds. You said it yourself, nothing much has changed in that regard.

The perception will start to change if they lockup Miller and Pomminstein (I swear it's like they are one guy now ... starting in goal and on right wing, number 59, RyanJason MillerPomminstein .....)

 

1) Without going team by team, I would estimate close to 50 RFA's have signed since October with at least half since the end of the season. My point was that you, like others, asked the question, why would they sign? My answer, why did these guys sign?

 

2) We agree

 

3) I can't see any of these three, with the possible exception of Gaustad, getting more then a three year contract.

 

4) Agree for the most part

[tom webster]

The Sabres mishandled one free-agent and that was Drury. The rest were decisions that we may not agree with. Just because a player is no longer a Sabre it doen't mean it was mishandled. It's becoming a shame that this is always what it comes down to.

 

This is a time for Sabres fans to be excited. They have some exciting young kids joining the franchise. They also have a couple of #1's this season to add to that list. I don't normally spend a great deal of time following the Amerks, this season I will be paying close attention to whichever team ends up being the affiliate.

 

Quick prospect question. Any chance one of these kids can make the jump right away? Who would be most likely?

 

I would add Connolly over Dumont and the Campbell negotiations although in retrospect, they may have lucked into the right decision by fumbling this one.

 

As for your last question, I think Shrader willl confirm that it would be a shock if any of the signed prospects make the team, that Butler may the best of the lot and that the 13th pick would be a long shot to make the jump and the 26th pick would be even a longer one.

That being said, Perron made St Louis after being the 26th pick last year.

I, for one, think they will package those picks.

[SDS]

The problem with this argument, from my perspective, is even if "perception" was an issue to some extent - criticizing the front office for something that ultimately got done in a reasonable fashion still comes off as petty. Really petty.

 

Every aspect of the Sabres organization will be micro-analyzed, but to micro-criticize them over essentially nothing just doesn't seem like a battle worth fighting.

[BetweenThePipes00]

1) Without going team by team, I would estimate close to 50 RFA's have signed since October with at least half since the end of the season. My point was that you, like others, asked the question, why would they sign? My answer, why did these guys sign?

If you are going to go back to October it's a totally different argument. Back then anything could happen during the season - injury, trades, whatever- so one reason they would sign is for the security of having a guaranteed deal. On June 1, it's totally different, what's going to change in the next 30 days?

Regardless, fine, let's say 50 guys signed ...that's 50 out of like 225 then ... not exactly a majority. To me that is not a big enough number to say it's not happening just because the Sabres are dragging their feet. Obviously other teams have had trouble getting things done also.

 

3) I can't see any of these three, with the possible exception of Gaustad, getting more then a three year contract.

OK, but maybe the agent wants 4. Or in the case of Gaustad, he wants 2 so he can be a UFA faster. there are things they could be arguing about is my point.

[tom webster]

The problem with this argument, from my perspective, is even if "perception" was an issue to some extent - criticizing the front office for something that ultimately got done in a reasonable fashion still comes off as petty. Really petty.

 

Every aspect of the Sabres organization will be micro-analyzed, but to micro-criticize them over essentially nothing just doesn't seem like a battle worth fighting.

 

I am assuming this is meant for me. If you look at my original post, I did not criticize them. I merely stated that they didn't do anything that deserved praise nor did they do anything that I said they wouldn't do. The criticism came in response to other posters who tried to make more of the signings.

 

Admittedly, I wish I left this thread alone.

[tom webster]

So now it's about the "perception" that they are "slow to move" and not that they are cheap and/or let their talent walk? Hmmm. I guess the dartboard is a moving target.

 

Besides, a "perception" that the Sabres are "slow to move" relative to the other teams (which is total BS) would be a "problem" so small as to not merit any discussion even on a fan message board in the team's offseason.

 

My last point on this thread. For the one thousandth time, I have never said management was cheap. Talent was let go due to a multitude of errors and money has been wasted on others but find me one of my posts that refers to them as cheap. You do that, I will leave for good.

[carpandean]

My last point on this thread. For the one thousandth time, I have never said management was cheap. Talent was let go due to a multitude of errors and money has been wasted on others but find me one of my posts that refers to them as cheap. You do that, I will leave for good.

 

 

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php...amp;#entry84746

If they go into next season "counting" on those two, they will again be taking the cheap way out.

Buh-bye!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding! Please stay! One-sided arguments are boring. :thumbsup:

[BamBam]

The Sabres mishandled one free-agent and that was Drury. The rest were decisions that we may not agree with. Just because a player is no longer a Sabre it doen't mean it was mishandled. It's becoming a shame that this is always what it comes down to.

 

This is a time for Sabres fans to be excited. They have some exciting young kids joining the franchise. They also have a couple of #1's this season to add to that list. I don't normally spend a great deal of time following the Amerks, this season I will be paying close attention to whichever team ends up being the affiliate.

 

Quick prospect question. Any chance one of these kids can make the jump right away? Who would be most likely?

 

 

You say tomato and I say tomato right? A screwup is a screwup.

The past is the past, and now its time to be happy about the current moves.

 

All I'm saying is that if there is a screwup fans have a right to let the organization know in one of many ways.

Done Deal.