Wade Dubielewicz Anyone?

[tom webster]

Dubie may be a perfect back up although he is apparently not interested in a two way contract.

Fedotenko may be interesting as well.

[X. Benedict]

Dubie might be an interesting option, but if I were him I think I would be more inclined to try to stay on the Island with Dipietro's wonky hips.

[Kristian]

Sounds interesting, but I fear we could have Chris Osgood backing up Miller, and he'd still end up with a SV% of .879 and a 3.89 GAA on the season.

 

My point being - We have issues with the way we approach backup goaltenders.

 

What those issues are, and how to deal with them I have no idea, but the names, Bob Essensa, Ty Conklin and Jocelyn Thibault should ring a bell or two for someone.

[Stoner]

Miller needs to be pushed. He has never earned prima donna "untouchable" status here. If the result is he's pushed out the door, so be it. Let's finally see what this guy is made of.

[Bmwolf21]

Dubie may be a perfect back up although he is apparently not interested in a two way contract.

Fedotenko may be interesting as well.

Are we going to sign any backup to a two-way deal?

 

Sounds interesting, but I fear we could have Chris Osgood backing up Miller, and he'd still end up with a SV% of .879 and a 3.89 GAA on the season.

 

My point being - We have issues with the way we approach backup goaltenders.

 

What those issues are, and how to deal with them I have no idea, but the names, Bob Essensa, Ty Conklin and Jocelyn Thibault should ring a bell or two for someone.

Good post. I think there are issues with how Lindy handles his backups, and I think there are also issues with Corsi and his development at the pro level. In fact I have been begging for someone, anyone to explain to me how Corsi continues to get a pass even though he had a stable of three young, highly-touted goaltenders and only one (Miller) has developed into a bona fide NHL starter under his tutelage (and he still struggles with consistency and angles at times.) Biron struggled with consistency until he left Buffalo, then got hot and focused down the stretch and turned in an overall very good playoffs, and Noronen is now back in Russia. Even Miller's development has had its peaks and valleys, and I still don't think he's anywhere near his potential.

 

Miller needs to be pushed. He has never earned prima donna "untouchable" status here. If the result is he's pushed out the door, so be it. Let's finally see what this guy is made of.

Sigh...I was all set to welcome you back, too. ;)

 

We've seen glimpses of what Ryan is capable of in Lindy's pond-hockey system - he has backstopped this team to consecutive ECF appearances and would have had them in the SCF two years ago if McKee cleans his boo-boo and doesn't get a staph infection.

 

You're never going to see what ANY goalie is truly capable of when they are facing the never-ending parade of breakaways and odd-man rushes like this year's defense featured. When the Sabres have made a halfway decent defensive effort we've seen Ryan be every bit as good as nearly any goalie in the league, and regardless of the stupidity that is slung about by some of the anti-Miller crowd, we have seen Ryan "steal" games, and he has been VERY good in the playoffs, when it matters most.

[SwampD]

Are we going to sign any backup to a two-way deal?

Good post. I think there are issues with how Lindy handles his backups, and I think there are also issues with Corsi and his development at the pro level. In fact I have been begging for someone, anyone to explain to me how Corsi continues to get a pass even though he had a stable of three young, highly-touted goaltenders and only one (Miller) has developed into a bona fide NHL starter under his tutelage (and he still struggles with consistency and angles at times.) Biron struggled with consistency until he left Buffalo, then got hot and focused down the stretch and turned in an overall very good playoffs, and Noronen is now back in Russia. Even Miller's development has had its peaks and valleys, and I still don't think he's anywhere near his potential.

Sigh...I was all set to welcome you back, too. ;)

 

We've seen glimpses of what Ryan is capable of in Lindy's pond-hockey system - he has backstopped this team to consecutive ECF appearances and would have had them in the SCF two years ago if McKee cleans his boo-boo and doesn't get a staph infection.

 

You're never going to see what ANY goalie is truly capable of when they are facing the never-ending parade of breakaways and odd-man rushes like this year's defense featured. When the Sabres have made a halfway decent defensive effort we've seen Ryan be every bit as good as nearly any goalie in the league, and regardless of the stupidity that is slung about by some of the anti-Miller crowd, we have seen Ryan "steal" games, and he has been VERY good in the playoffs, when it matters most.

Miller is really good. People need to get over that fact and move on. I hope he is here for a long time.

 

If I'm not mistaken, you've brought up Corsi before and I totally agree. The fact that so many guys have moved on and shined elsewhere is troubling.

[Bmwolf21]

I don't want anyone to think I'm hanging it all on Corsi, but I just wonder if Miller and the backups would benefit from a fresh perspective, and IIRC Corsi wasn't Lindy's first choice as goaltender coach.

 

I just think these are all areas for discussion, because if you're not getting better you are getting worse.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Miller is really good. People need to get over that fact and move on. I hope he is here for a long time.

 

If I'm not mistaken, you've brought up Corsi before and I totally agree. The fact that so many guys have moved on and shined elsewhere is troubling.

What "so many?" Conklin played FIVE games in Buffalo, and he was the same he every was before that. Corsi didn't even have time to screw him up. He got hot on a very good team this season. If he does it again next year I will be stunned.

Biron, for all the bitching done about him here, was developed into a very good NHL goalie under Corsi, and in fact handled playing 72 games one season better than Miller did in some ways (granted with way less pressure). Biron was ALWAYS at his best when he wasn't looking over his shoulder, and once Miller came along he always was. He went to Philly, they committed to him, and he played well. But Corsi still taught the guy the first 12 seasons of his pro career ... he gets no credit for that?

Let's not overthink it ... as I said on the other thread, Conklin and T-Bo started 11 games combined the last two seasons ... are we going to judge Corsi on those 11 games or on the careers of Miller and Biron so far? I'll take the latter.

[SwampD]

What "so many?" Conklin played FIVE games in Buffalo, and he was the same he every was before that. Corsi didn't even have time to screw him up. He got hot on a very good team this season. If he does it again next year I will be stunned.

Biron, for all the bitching done about him here, was developed into a very good NHL goalie under Corsi, and in fact handled playing 72 games one season better than Miller did in some ways (granted with way less pressure). Biron was ALWAYS at his best when he wasn't looking over his shoulder, and once Miller came along he always was. He went to Philly, they committed to him, and he played well. But Corsi still taught the guy the first 12 seasons of his pro career ... he gets no credit for that?

Let's not overthink it ... as I said on the other thread, Conklin and T-Bo started 11 games combined the last two seasons ... are we going to judge Corsi on those 11 games or on the careers of Miller and Biron so far? I'll take the latter.

I knew when I typed "so many" that it was probably and overstatement, and I agree with everything you've said. But you have to admit that there was a mishandling of the goalie situation this year. Ryan was beat and T-Bo was shakey. Wether it was Lindy or corsi I don't know. And Biron was doing things in the playoffs that I didn't even think he was capable of from what he showed us here.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I knew when I typed "so many" that it was probably and overstatement, and I agree with everything you've said. But you have to admit that there was a mishandling of the goalie situation this year. Ryan was beat and T-Bo was shakey. Wether it was Lindy or corsi I don't know. And Biron was doing things in the playoffs that I didn't even think he was capable of from what he showed us here.

Like when he won 13 in a row or whatever? He was always capable of it, which is what was so frustrating ... he's just hot and cold and goes cold at the wrong times. I don't think that changed because he got a new goalie coach in Philly.

[Kristian]

Like when he won 13 in a row or whatever? He was always capable of it, which is what was so frustrating ... he's just hot and cold and goes cold at the wrong times. I don't think that changed because he got a new goalie coach in Philly.

 

Well to be perfectly honest, Biron didn't really go on a hot-streak playing-wise, as I remember it on that streak.

 

As I recall, he was pretty much putting up his regular numbers, which were something along the lines of of .90 SV% and a 2.90 GAA.

 

You know, pretty solid but nothing spectacular by any means. It just so happened that the team was firing on all cylinders, making Marty's job that much easier.

 

Not to take anything away from him, but that 13 game streak wasn't like the days where Dom would carry the team on his back through December with 6 shutouts, but rather that the team was making Marty's normal level of playing stand up every night.

 

I remember him playing a lot better than he ever did during those 13 W's, like in his early years where he would get hot late in the year and make us all believe he would come back much improved next season.

[tom webster]

Well to be perfectly honest, Biron didn't really go on a hot-streak playing-wise, as I remember it on that streak.

 

As I recall, he was pretty much putting up his regular numbers, which were something along the lines of of .90 SV% and a 2.90 GAA.

 

You know, pretty solid but nothing spectacular by any means. It just so happened that the team was firing on all cylinders, making Marty's job that much easier.

 

Not to take anything away from him, but that 13 game streak wasn't like the days where Dom would carry the team on his back through December with 6 shutouts, but rather that the team was making Marty's normal level of playing stand up every night.

 

I remember him playing a lot better than he ever did during those 13 W's, like in his early years where he would get hot late in the year and make us all believe he would come back much improved next season.

 

Excellent point, Marty was always the tease, giving us a hint of greatness only to let us down when we counted on him.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Excellent point, Marty was always the tease, giving us a hint of greatness only to let us down when we counted on him.

 

Maybe so, but I don't think you can lay it at the feet of the goalie coach, which was my point.

[stenbaro]

Lets not put the previous 3 yr run at the feet of Miller..We had a great offensive team and that is the reason they went as far as we did..Miller was a productive beneficiary of the end result..Good goalie yes..Great goalie not close yet...

[tom webster]

Maybe so, but I don't think you can lay it at the feet of the goalie coach, which was my point.

 

I didn't mean to lay anything at Corsi's feet. I think back up goalie is a difficult job to project. You need somebody good enough to start but able to prepare every game knowing he probably won't play. You could get Martin Broduer as Miller's back up and there would be no guarantee he wouldn't play like TiBo when the time came. Of course, I'd like to take the chance.

[deluca67]

Dubie may be a perfect back up although he is apparently not interested in a two way contract.

Fedotenko may be interesting as well.

There have seem to have been a lot of rumors regarding Fedotenko over the past few season in regards to the Sabres have a strong interest. I think he would be a good option.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing Satan back in a Sabres uniform if the price is right. Hopefully he is a bit more mature at this stage in his career. He may not qualify as the veteran leadership so many have demanded but he will help the power play.

[Bmwolf21]

Marty was given chance after chance to lock up the no.1 position and never did it, not even in his career year in 2000-01 (31 wins, 2.22, .915, 4 SO.) He also had zero playoff appearances in his tenure as the no.1 goaltender, which cannot be left solely at the goaltender's feet - unless you are talking about Ryan Miller, who was apparently supposed to lead the team into the playoffs this year despite his team's shortcomings.

 

IIRC Corsi didn't join the Sabres until 2001-02, which was about the time Marty lost his grip on the starter's position.

 

In winning streak in question (when Ryan went down two years ago with a broken thumb) Marty won 11 straight starts and was very good before Ryan's return. Outside that streak his numbers weren't nearly as good, which leads back to the argument that he is a very streaky goalie who is as good as anyone when he gets hot but is otherwise an average goaltender.

 

During the streak: (November 23 - December 17)

11-0-0, 2.34, .915, 0 SO

 

Outside that streak: (early November; Ryan went down November 2)

3-4-1, 4.04, .868, 0 SO

 

EDIT: Someone will have to verify Corsi's tenure as Sabres' goalie coach. I've found some things that say he joined the team in 2001-02, and a vague reference at LegendsofHockey.net that says he was here in 1992, and that doesn't sound right at all.

[Bmwolf21]

Lets not put the previous 3 yr run at the feet of Miller..We had a great offensive team and that is the reason they went as far as we did..Miller was a productive beneficiary of the end result..Good goalie yes..Great goalie not close yet...

:rolleyes: Not close yet? Come on, that's ridiculous and you know it.

 

So Miller is just lucky that they were so dominant offensively? Where is the line for a "great" goalie? Is it wins? Losses? GAA? Save percentage? Name recognition? Playoff results?

 

There are average goalies, good, great, and elite/superstar. Miller is great, not yet elite.

[stenbaro]

:rolleyes: Not close yet? Come on, that's ridiculous and you know it.

 

So Miller is just lucky that they were so dominant offensively? Where is the line for a "great" goalie? Is it wins? Losses? GAA? Save percentage? Name recognition? Playoff results?

 

There are average goalies, good, great, and elite/superstar. Miller is great, not yet elite.

Come on..Great goalies win games for them singlehanded..Keep them in it when they are having a tough time...He is not a great goalie//Patrick Roy Domink Hasek, Martin Brodeur..All those goalies in thier prime were great goalies..Miller is not there..He might be one day but not yet..He is above average but I would not classify him as great..In my book.. :rolleyes: Back at ya :nana:

[Bmwolf21]

Come on..Great goalies win games for them singlehanded..Keep them in it when they are having a tough time...He is not a great goalie//Patrick Roy Domink Hasek, Martin Brodeur..All those goalies in thier prime were great goalies..Miller is not there..He might be one day but not yet..He is above average but I would not classify him as great..In my book.. :rolleyes: Back at ya :nana:

Do you realize you just named four of the GREATEST GOALIES IN NHL HISTORY and are calling Ryan just a good goalie because he isn't legendary yet?

 

Again:

 

Average

Good

Great

Elite/Superstar

LEGENDARY

 

And of course, the old strawman argument that Ryan never wins games on his own or keeps his team in the game when they are having a tough time. Did you miss the 06-07 season? Ryan kept the team in 95% of the games! How many times did that team wait until 10 minutes to go before popping in two-three quick goals and escaping with a win?

[stenbaro]

Do you realize you just named four of the GREATEST GOALIES IN NHL HISTORY and are calling Ryan just a good goalie because he isn't legendary yet?

 

Again:

 

Average

Good

Great

Elite/Superstar

LEGENDARY

I guess I dont throw the word great around as much as you do then..

[Bmwolf21]

I guess I dont throw the word great around as much as you do then..

I guess you need to think about it a little more. There are great goalies who are great for a season, a short part of their career, etc., that aren't quite as good as an elite goaltender like Hasek, Roy, Brodeur. The legendary goaltenders are the ones who are elite for a long period of time.

 

Trying to lump all the goalies into two-three categories is ridiculous and blurs the distinction between the best and the so-so.

[stenbaro]

I guess you need to think about it a little more. There are great goalies who are great for a season, a short part of their career, etc., that aren't quite as good as an elite goaltender like Hasek, Roy, Brodeur. The legendary goaltenders are the ones who are elite for a long period of time.

 

Trying to lump all the goalies into two-three categories is ridiculous and blurs the distinction between the best and the so-so.

He was next to last in save percentage last yr..Great goalies dont do that...

[Bmwolf21]

He was next to last in save percantage last yr..Great goalies dont do that...

He was tied with Miikka Kiprusoff with a .906. Guess that means Miikka isn't a great goalie either. <_<

 

But I guess if you want to pick out one stat and use that as an excuse to label someone as crap, that's your right. I don't know why I pay attention to any of your Miller posts, because you've admitted you don't like him and have never been anywhere near objective about anything regarding #30.

[stenbaro]

He was tied with Miikka Kiprusoff with a .906. Guess that means Miikka isn't a great goalie either. <_<

 

But I guess if you want to pick out one stat and use that as an excuse to label someone as crap, that's your right. I don't know why I pay attention to any of your Miller posts, because you've admitted you don't like him and have never been anywhere near objective about anything regarding #30.

I think he should have been better than he was last yr..The team needed for him to step up and perform..He played bad...Shootouts were horrible..Maybe he had a bad yr..I am not saying he wont become a great or your elite goalie I just dont think he is there yet..He might..