Front office Blunder help

[stenbaro]

I would like to start or have a poll started of Buffalo Sabres front office blunders and see what we vote as the worst front office blunder in Sabres history..And then Do one that votes for the best..I am haveing a hard time finding a history of transactions other than draft choices..So maybe we can list tghem here and then someone can start the poll..

 

I will start with my favorite

 

Drury unsigned

 

 

Does anyone remember what we gave up for Fuhr?

For best i would say Pierre for Lafontaine

and Warrener for drury

 

Take it from here I guess

[shrader]

Google "sabres trade history". You'll find some solid lists there.

[SabresFan526]

I would like to start or have a poll started of Buffalo Sabres front office blunders and see what we vote as the worst front office blunder in Sabres history..And then Do one that votes for the best..I am haveing a hard time finding a history of transactions other than draft choices..So maybe we can list tghem here and then someone can start the poll..

 

I will start with my favorite

 

Drury unsigned

Does anyone remember what we gave up for Fuhr?

For best i would say Pierre for Lafontaine

and Warrener for drury

 

Take it from here I guess

Andreychuk for Fuhr, which at that time was not a bad trade at all. I just don't think anyone expected that Hasek would be the goalie that he became, and in the end, they traded Fuhr to L.A. in the deal that brought Zhitnik to Buffalo, and I thought Zhitnik was a very good defenseman for the Sabres for a number of years regardless of what people may think of him on this board.

 

Worst for me:

Hasek for Kozlov and picks that were used on players that don't play for Buffalo (although Shrader says one of those picks is Paille, but not sure about that)

Kozlov for two picks that were promptly traded away

Bob Corkum

Mike Zigomanis not getting signed because of broken fax machine

Drury and Briere go unsigned (One of those two should have been re-signed)

Signing Connolly for $2.9 million/year instead of accepting $2.9 million arbitration award for Dumont

Pat LaFontaine to the Rangers for not much in return (unfortunately LaFontaine had all the leverage and wanted to play hockey)

 

Best for me under this management (Hasek does not count as he was under Muckler)

Drafting Derek Roy

Drafting Jason Pominville

Miro Satan stolen from Edmonton (I think this may have been a Muckler move, but man what a great trade that turned out to be - they traded some terrible scab players and got Satan out of it who had some pretty productive years for Buffalo)

The Jochen Hecht trade

Drafting Ryan Miller very late in the draft

Drafting Nathan Gerbe very late in the draft

Rhett Warrener for Mike Wilson

Chris Drury for Rhett Warrener

Stu Barnes for Matthew Barnaby

Daniel Briere for Chris Gratton (absolute genius trade, too bad the marriage didn't last that long)

Doug Gilmour and J.P. Dumont for Michal Grosek

 

I think overall, this management has done a lot of good and more good than bad. But when they make mistakes, they are catastrophic, and that's the problem. Oh well, I still have faith that Darcy will have a really good draft this year and make some trades to improve the team.

[carpandean]

Edit: I should read whole posts (got angry before reading the "best deal" idea.)

[Kristian]

Andreychuk for Fuhr, which at that time was not a bad trade at all. I just don't think anyone expected that Hasek would be the goalie that he became, and in the end, they traded Fuhr to L.A. in the deal that brought Zhitnik to Buffalo, and I thought Zhitnik was a very good defenseman for the Sabres for a number of years regardless of what people may think of him on this board.

 

Worst for me:

Hasek for Kozlov and picks that were used on players that don't play for Buffalo (although Shrader says one of those picks is Paille, but not sure about that)

Kozlov for two picks that were promptly traded away

Bob Corkum

Mike Zigomanis not getting signed because of broken fax machine

Drury and Briere go unsigned (One of those two should have been re-signed)

Signing Connolly for $2.9 million/year instead of accepting $2.9 million arbitration award for Dumont

Pat LaFontaine to the Rangers for not much in return (unfortunately LaFontaine had all the leverage and wanted to play hockey)

 

That pretty much stands as the darkest moment in Sabres history for me.

 

Quinn wanted Patty to retire, so he'd be off the hook for his 5 or 6 mill. option. He wanted to come back to Buffalo, only Quinn was being a cheapskate and wouldn't let him. It had nothing to do with his concussion history, but that was his story.

 

Another reason I completely detest that fat moron, talk about being a classless prick.

 

Hasek threatening to retire if he wasn't dealt was another one. Darcy should've just told "His royal Bailness" to #%^$#! off and retire, but unfortunately he had too much respect for Dom to do that. Too bad that respect wasn't a two-way street.

[nucci]

That pretty much stands as the darkest moment in Sabres history for me.

 

Quinn wanted Patty to retire, so he'd be off the hook for his 5 or 6 mill. option. He wanted to come back to Buffalo, only Quinn was being a cheapskate and wouldn't let him. It had nothing to do with his concussion history, but that was his story.

 

Another reason I completely detest that fat moron, talk about being a classless prick.

 

Hasek threatening to retire if he wasn't dealt was another one. Darcy should've just told "His royal Bailness" to #%^$#! off and retire, but unfortunately he had too much respect for Dom to do that. Too bad that respect wasn't a two-way street.

LaFontaine took one hit for the Rangers and was done. Quinn has made mistakes but not on this one. Team Doctors would not let him play so he found one that would clear him.

[shrader]

Hasek for Kozlov and picks that were used on players that don't play for Buffalo (although Shrader says one of those picks is Paille, but not sure about that)

 

I have no doubt on this one. They got the 30th pick from Detroit and then on draft day packaged that with Pandolfo for the pick they used on Paille. Yeah, the trade looks bad, but most things look bad when you have a gun held to your head.

 

Mike Zigomanis not getting signed because of broken fax machine

 

Considering the fact that he can barely get a sniff of the NHL, this one really doesn't hurt at all. Sure it resulted in a bunch of fax machine jokes, but this one really falls on the league. They refused to break from their archaic system and looked like fools.

 

Kozlov for two picks that were promptly traded away

 

One of those two draft picks was used to draft BC defensemen John Adams, who never signed. The other was packaged with another pick to Edmonton for Jochen Hecht. Considering the fact that Kozlov was miserable and didn't want to be here, not to mention the fact that Hecht has worked out for us quite well, I have no problem with this trade.

 

There were quite a few deals that year where picks were exchanged, all connected to the Kozlov deal. None of the picks panned out for any of the teams involved, so it has essentially turned into Hecht for Kozlov.

[X. Benedict]

Mike Zigomanis not getting signed because of broken fax machine

 

The upside to this seems to be that it got Zigomanis out of the organization. :beer:

[stenbaro]

I have no doubt on this one. They got the 30th pick from Detroit and then on draft day packaged that with Pandolfo for the pick they used on Paille. Yeah, the trade looks bad, but most things look bad when you have a gun held to your head.

Considering the fact that he can barely get a sniff of the NHL, this one really doesn't hurt at all. Sure it resulted in a bunch of fax machine jokes, but this one really falls on the league. They refused to break from their archaic system and looked like fools.

One of those two draft picks was used to draft BC defensemen John Adams, who never signed. The other was packaged with another pick to Edmonton for Jochen Hecht. Considering the fact that Kozlov was miserable and didn't want to be here, not to mention the fact that Hecht has worked out for us quite well, I have no problem with this trade.

 

There were quite a few deals that year where picks were exchanged, all connected to the Kozlov deal. None of the picks panned out for any of the teams involved, so it has essentially turned into Hecht for Kozlov.

Or Hecht for Hasek...Heres a story that my friend who works very closely with the Sabres told me after Hasek Let that ungodly last goal in a Sabres uniform that totaly surprised me..I was always under the impression that after Hasek let that goal in he couldnt wait to get out of Buffalo, that was it for him...After he literally jetted off the ice they had to ambulance him to ECMC because he was so mad at himself he beat his head into the concrete wall unconscious and bloody...I had never heard that until 2 weeks ago...I never realized he had that much passion...I would figure that for a Rob Ray or Kaleta type player....

[Kristian]

LaFontaine took one hit for the Rangers and was done. Quinn has made mistakes but not on this one. Team Doctors would not let him play so he found one that would clear him.

 

Very true, but the hit he took was not a hit, it was a collision with teammate Mike Keane I believe. Might even have been in practice?

 

Plus, his concussion wasn't all that bad, but Patty decided he'd had enough after that. He gave it one last shot, and was still able to walk away before suffering permanent damage to his brain. Good for him.

 

I'm not saying Quinn's decision wasn't a sound business move, but Patty's health was the least of his concerns, even though he made it sound that way. Rest assured, had Patty not carried the pricetag he did, Larry would've made damn sure those very same doctors cleared him. Hence another reason why I think he's a prize moron.

[shrader]

Or Hecht for Hasek...

 

And Paille. Not exactly equal value but still a bit more than the complete waste some like to play it up as.

[Goodfella25]

It has to be something that had a moderate to major impact on the organization, not something such a trading for Bob Corkum. How is that even a blunder? Was anyone expecting him to light it up here? I think the real blunder was that we didn't get anyone else, but what are you gonna do when you're going bankrupt.

 

It has to be something of the magnitude of how they handled the Drury/Briere situations.

[Kristian]

And Paille. Not exactly equal value but still a bit more than the complete waste some like to play it up as.

 

Well, I'd rather have Paille than "Play Me Or Trade Me" Kozlov.

[shrader]

Well, I'd rather have Paille than "Play Me Or Trade Me" Kozlov.

 

Exactly. Getting anything in return for a guy like that is always a bonus. The fact that we turned him into Jochen Hecht, one of the team's main leaders and a guy who wants to be here, is a huge gain for this team.

[tom webster]

Andreychuk for Fuhr, which at that time was not a bad trade at all. I just don't think anyone expected that Hasek would be the goalie that he became, and in the end, they traded Fuhr to L.A. in the deal that brought Zhitnik to Buffalo, and I thought Zhitnik was a very good defenseman for the Sabres for a number of years regardless of what people may think of him on this board.

 

Worst for me:

Hasek for Kozlov and picks that were used on players that don't play for Buffalo (although Shrader says one of those picks is Paille, but not sure about that)

Kozlov for two picks that were promptly traded away

Bob Corkum

Mike Zigomanis not getting signed because of broken fax machine

Drury and Briere go unsigned (One of those two should have been re-signed)

Signing Connolly for $2.9 million/year instead of accepting $2.9 million arbitration award for Dumont

Pat LaFontaine to the Rangers for not much in return (unfortunately LaFontaine had all the leverage and wanted to play hockey)

 

Best for me under this management (Hasek does not count as he was under Muckler)

Drafting Derek Roy

Drafting Jason Pominville

Miro Satan stolen from Edmonton (I think this may have been a Muckler move, but man what a great trade that turned out to be - they traded some terrible scab players and got Satan out of it who had some pretty productive years for Buffalo)

The Jochen Hecht trade

Drafting Ryan Miller very late in the draft

Drafting Nathan Gerbe very late in the draft

Rhett Warrener for Mike Wilson

Chris Drury for Rhett Warrener

Stu Barnes for Matthew Barnaby

Daniel Briere for Chris Gratton (absolute genius trade, too bad the marriage didn't last that long)

Doug Gilmour and J.P. Dumont for Michal Grosek

 

I think overall, this management has done a lot of good and more good than bad. But when they make mistakes, they are catastrophic, and that's the problem. Oh well, I still have faith that Darcy will have a really good draft this year and make some trades to improve the team.

 

Hasek was actually acquired by Gerry Meehan. Muckler's the one who tried to give him away in the expansion draft!

[shrader]

Hasek was actually acquired by Gerry Meehan. Muckler's the one who tried to give him away in the expansion draft!

 

Muckler was with the team at that point, so who knows who was actually calling the shots. Its next to impossible to find what the actual power structure was at that point.

 

 

edit: Also, from the good things he listed, its way too early on Gerbe. He could very easily never play a game at the NHL level. If that were to happen, it just reinforces the crap shoot nature of the draft, especially in the later rounds (5th).

[tom webster]

If you want to see a list of all major transactions by the Sabres, you can download the media guide;

 

http://downloads.sabres.nhl.com/other/medi...e_7_history.pdf

[BetweenThePipes00]

edit: Also, from the good things he listed, its way too early on Gerbe. He could very easily never play a game at the NHL level. If that were to happen, it just reinforces the crap shoot nature of the draft, especially in the later rounds (5th).

 

Come on, shrader, don't be such a hater. (And by hater I mean level-headed realist with a clue.) [sarcasm]Gerbe is obviously going to take the league by storm ... in fact, I believe they have already petitioned for him to wear 99 since Roy has 9 and word has it the NHL is considering it. (You know, the same "word" that had it that he was pissed and going to wait until next August to become a free agent.) He will lead not only the Sabres but the league to such heights that the games may actually get off of VS. (or as my buddy at work calls it, "The Versus." [/sarcasm]

[nucci]

Very true, but the hit he took was not a hit, it was a collision with teammate Mike Keane I believe. Might even have been in practice?

 

Plus, his concussion wasn't all that bad, but Patty decided he'd had enough after that. He gave it one last shot, and was still able to walk away before suffering permanent damage to his brain. Good for him.

 

I'm not saying Quinn's decision wasn't a sound business move, but Patty's health was the least of his concerns, even though he made it sound that way. Rest assured, had Patty not carried the pricetag he did, Larry would've made damn sure those very same doctors cleared him. Hence another reason why I think he's a prize moron.

What is the difference between a hit and collision? Same effect and if it wasn't so bad why did he retire? Not defending Quinn, just saying.....

[Bmwolf21]

Ummm...a hit comes from an opponent, a collision is a same-team mishap?

 

I'm almost positive that the collision in question (LaFontaine - Keane) was in a game, not too far from the Rangers' bench.

 

EDIT: LINK to a NY Times story that talks about the collision and his retirement.

[SabresFan526]

Muckler was with the team at that point, so who knows who was actually calling the shots. Its next to impossible to find what the actual power structure was at that point.

edit: Also, from the good things he listed, its way too early on Gerbe. He could very easily never play a game at the NHL level. If that were to happen, it just reinforces the crap shoot nature of the draft, especially in the later rounds (5th).

Hey, I said the Sabres did a lot of good things. I'm not a complete hater. Regardless, you are right, we have no idea what kind of player Gerbe will be in the NHL, but you have to give credit to the management/scoutin team for finding goldmines later in the draft. The fact that Gerbe is a highly valued prospect and was drafted so late, you should give credit to the management for that. Similarly, they should be given credit for finding Pominville and Miller late in the drafts. And, Roy in the second round was a great pick. Now that you think about, it's a surprise he slid past the first round. All-in-all I think this management team has done a lot of good, and have really made trades that made other GMs look like idiots. But, they have done some bad things as well that has set this franchise back. I think they have learned, and hopefully will improve the team this offseason.

[Kristian]

What is the difference between a hit and collision? Same effect and if it wasn't so bad why did he retire? Not defending Quinn, just saying.....

 

Good point, but my guess is it most likely made him think "Ok, if this is all the contact needed to screw my head up now, then what happens next time Francois Leroux elbows me in the face?".

 

From the story linked to : "The collision with Keane resulted in LaFontaine's sixth diagnosed concussion, a Grade II level injury that followed on the heels of a more severe Grade III blow that knocked him unconscious and cost him the 1996-97 season at Buffalo.

[shrader]

Every team has prospects that are highly regarded like Gerbe. It means very little right now unless he turns it into something. Then again, if the Sabres were to trade him, that would change things. Depending on the return, they then in fact would have gotten something definite out of that pick.

 

As for Pominville, he was a 2nd rounder. That's not a late pick.

[bottlecap]

Or Hecht for Hasek...Heres a story that my friend who works very closely with the Sabres told me after Hasek Let that ungodly last goal in a Sabres uniform that totaly surprised me..I was always under the impression that after Hasek let that goal in he couldnt wait to get out of Buffalo, that was it for him...After he literally jetted off the ice they had to ambulance him to ECMC because he was so mad at himself he beat his head into the concrete wall unconscious and bloody...I had never heard that until 2 weeks ago...I never realized he had that much passion...I would figure that for a Rob Ray or Kaleta type player....

 

I always wondered what happened after Hasek bolted off the ice. That's fascinating.

 

My all-time worst deal? You can't say we've made alot of huge mistakes as an organization. As many problems as we've had, we've usually come out on top on most of our deals. I would say the deal that probably cost us the 2001 Stanley Cup: not re-signing Peca. That was complete stupidity and we had it right in our hands. Of course last year we were one or two players away and they went out and got a stiff like Zubrus.

 

Ray Sheppard to the Rangers for -- $1.

[ExiledInIllinois]

How 'bout the opposite starting with the "spin of the wheel."

 

:nana: