Hockey Buzz- Gaborik/Liles (Buffalo)

[BamBam]

Gaborik/Liles- Buffalo

 

Gaborik

Although some sources are saying pretty much the same thing regarding Gaborik's desire to remain a "Wild" (?) reports are that some very serious trade offers may make things complicated including a mega offer from a "team in the Northeast" that I believe to be either Buffalo or Boston. There is one scenario where Boston would attempt to unite Hossa and Gaborik in Boston.

 

Liles to Buffalo

Much has been made of the fact that Ryan Miler and J-M Liles are very close. With Miller's contract being at the forefront of talk this year, an with the Sabres trying to sure up the speed and transition game that was lost with Campbell's departure, this makes plenty of sense. Liles' stock has fallen a bit with people saying he has not grown into that early great potential he showed in Colorado. I think Liles could get a huge benefit from a new place with the familiar Miller near by.

[Chief Enabler]

Gaborik/Liles- Buffalo

 

Gaborik

Although some sources are saying pretty much the same thing regarding Gaborik's desire to remain a "Wild" (?) reports are that some very serious trade offers may make things complicated including a mega offer from a "team in the Northeast" that I believe to be either Buffalo or Boston. There is one scenario where Boston would attempt to unite Hossa and Gaborik in Boston.

 

Liles to Buffalo

Much has been made of the fact that Ryan Miler and J-M Liles are very close. With Miller's contract being at the forefront of talk this year, an with the Sabres trying to sure up the speed and transition game that was lost with Campbell's departure, this makes plenty of sense. Liles' stock has fallen a bit with people saying he has not grown into that early great potential he showed in Colorado. I think Liles could get a huge benefit from a new place with the familiar Miller near by.

I was joking about Hossa & Gaborik in the other thread too :lol: rumors crack me up.

 

JML sounds abit more solid to me.

[Buffalo Fan]

Gaborik/Liles- Buffalo

 

Gaborik

Although some sources are saying pretty much the same thing regarding Gaborik's desire to remain a "Wild" (?) reports are that some very serious trade offers may make things complicated including a mega offer from a "team in the Northeast" that I believe to be either Buffalo or Boston. There is one scenario where Boston would attempt to unite Hossa and Gaborik in Boston.

 

Liles to Buffalo

Much has been made of the fact that Ryan Miler and J-M Liles are very close. With Miller's contract being at the forefront of talk this year, an with the Sabres trying to sure up the speed and transition game that was lost with Campbell's departure, this makes plenty of sense. Liles' stock has fallen a bit with people saying he has not grown into that early great potential he showed in Colorado. I think Liles could get a huge benefit from a new place with the familiar Miller near by.

 

 

If these 2 senarios were to happen, I would say this would be the best offseason the Sabres have had in 10 years...maybe since they acquired the Dom in 1992. IMO.

[stenbaro]

If these 2 senarios were to happen, I would say this would be the best offseason the Sabres have had in 10 years...maybe since they acquired the Dom in 1992. IMO.

I dont see Liles as bringing to the SAbres what they need..They need big snot knockers back there and he just isnt one of them..They have enough Liles on the team..He doesnt upgrade any of his style of player on this team..

 

I would love Gaborik but he isnt gonna come for a package of our throwaways..He might cost us Pominville..He definately is not coming for paille and stafford..He has the same numbers as Roy..So what would the Sabres want in return if we were to deal Roy?? I am not giving up Roy for anything less than a Roy type player back...You just dont let your Stars go away they are next to impossible to replace and I doubt Lemaire would let Gaborik go away for less.

 

I would love it if Darcy pulled it off for less though B-)

[gregkash]

Gaborik could go for 3 players that aren't Gaborik.

 

I could see a Kotalik, Stafford, Afinogenov package or something like that getting him.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I dont see Liles as bringing to the SAbres what they need..They need big snot knockers back there and he just isnt one of them..They have enough Liles on the team..He doesnt upgrade any of his style of player on this team..

Well, are we assuming that Tallinder-Lydman and Sekera-Weber are set as pairs? If we're just looking for a guy to play with Spacek, I agree Liles is probably not the ideal guy.

Then again ... if Sekera and/or Weber are not ready to do it night in and night out over the long haul, bringing in a bigger, physical guy AND Liles would not be horrible ... Sekera has more experience, so let's say that Weber is up and down and better suited for the 7th defenseman role this season at age 20 ... Pairs could be Tallinder-Lydman, Sekera-new big guy, Spacek-Liles ... And since it is the Sabres, one of those guys will always be hurt anyway and Weber will play 65 games .... Spacek is probably gone after this season, so then Weber steps in to his spot next season ... They'd have 2 guys in Sekera and Liles who can play on the PP ... maybe neither is Campbell offensively but still decent ...

Again, all this is assuming they are still confident in Tallinder-Lydman and don't make some sort of move there ... overall Liles would not be my first choice as a FA signing but he is a good player and if it keeps Miller happy I don't think it would be a bad thing.

 

Gaborik has been debated to death on the other thread ...

[carpandean]

So, we have pretty much all agreed that our two biggest needs are a top-two center and a physical D-man, with secondary needs for leadership and a back-up goalie. Neither of these help with any of those needs. I wouldn't mind either of them, but only after we have already taken care of our big problems first. You can upgrade the guns on a warship, but if you don't fix the holes in the hull first, it is still going to sink just as fast. We have some good picks and some decent young forwards to trade, but those will only go so far. Use them wisely FO!

[apuszczalowski]

I dont see Liles as bringing to the SAbres what they need..They need big snot knockers back there and he just isnt one of them..They have enough Liles on the team..He doesnt upgrade any of his style of player on this team..

 

I would love Gaborik but he isnt gonna come for a package of our throwaways..He might cost us Pominville..He definately is not coming for paille and stafford..He has the same numbers as Roy..So what would the Sabres want in return if we were to deal Roy?? I am not giving up Roy for anything less than a Roy type player back...You just dont let your Stars go away they are next to impossible to replace and I doubt Lemaire would let Gaborik go away for less.

 

I would love it if Darcy pulled it off for less though B-)

Who knows what the Wild will want for Gaborik. They might be asking for alot in return, and players that can step in now, or they could want some younger talent and a pick or 2. It depends on if they want him around as a possible distraction or want to move him before he moves for free. Was Bernier and a pick really worth Brian Campbell? value wise I would say SJ got the better of the deal, getting a 2 time All Star, but the Sabres took the best deal they could get because they weren't going to keep him around and risk losing him for nothing.

 

I do agree, the Sabres probably won't be able to get him for the Sabres cast aways, someone young with potential might have to go (I doubt Paille though, just a weird feeling though) maybe someone like Stafford who had an off year along with someone like Max, or Kotalik, maybe even a pick too. The higher the pick, the more likely they may also throw in a backup goalie with Gaborik

[SabresFan526]

I saw that as well, and the Liles thing makes a lot of sense, and I think he's a great fit in Buffalo with his style of game. Personally, I'd bring him into Buffalo. But, I think the Sabres need a physical defensive defenseman as well.

 

Honestly, I'm just not that set on Tallinder-Lydman being the shutdown pair. Neither one is physical enough, neither one has a mean/nasty streak to them. They are not bad in terms of European defensive defenseman, but at the same time, neither one of them is a Fetisov, Konstantinov, or a Lidstrom type of European defensive defenseman. Lidstrom, especially, is not physical per se, but he might be one of the best defensive defenseman out there because he is positionally sound and never makes turnovers. Both are problems that Lydman and Tallinder have had. If you're a defensive defenseman and are not going to play physical, then you can't make any mistakes from the blueline, and these two are notorious for that. This is also why I have always loved Teppo's game and I'd love to have him back at an affordable cap hit. Teppo is always positionally sound, never makes a mistake with the puck, and sets up the transition offense so well with his breakout passes. All of these are weaknesses for Tallinder and Lydman and I'm willing to get rid of one to upgrade for a more physical defensive defenseman or one that is positionally sound and never makes a mistake.

 

Hence, if it were up to me, I'd try to trade one of them at the draft in a package including Stafford/picks to try and get a Patrick Marleau or Marian Gaborik type player. So then it become value-for-value type trade. Then, I'd trade Max either for value or to get some additional picks and salary cap space for free agency. Then, in free agency, I try to get a second line center (if you do not acquire one at the draft) and then sign Brooks Orpik or Jason Smith to play with either Tallinder or Lydman (whoever remains) and sign JM Liles to play with Spacek. You start the season with Sekera and Paetsch or Sekera and Weber as the third pairing and then you've got a shutdown tandem, an offensive tandem, and a bottom pair that's young but good. You also have Sekera, Liles, and Spacek who can all play on the PP.

 

Personally, of Eklund's rumor, I think Liles signing is a bit more realistic given his cost and historically the type of moves Darcy makes. A Gaborik type of player just doesn't seem realistic. However, Marleau seems realistic to me, the only problem is his salary for the next two years, but it's short term enough for Darcy to take a chance and have enough cap space to sign Pominville and Miller long term beyond the next two years. Marleau is also a classic change of scenery needed player, which is exactly the type of move that Darcy has made in the past for Chris Drury and Daniel Briere, which is why I would not be surprised if Darcy took a run at Marleau.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Personally, of Eklund's rumor, I think Liles signing is a bit more realistic given his cost and historically the type of moves Darcy makes. A Gaborik type of player just doesn't seem realistic. However, Marleau seems realistic to me, the only problem is his salary for the next two years, but it's short term enough for Darcy to take a chance and have enough cap space to sign Pominville and Miller long term beyond the next two years. Marleau is also a classic change of scenery needed player, which is exactly the type of move that Darcy has made in the past for Chris Drury and Daniel Briere, which is why I would not be surprised if Darcy took a run at Marleau.

 

Agreed there, but he didn't give up any player/prospect with the upside of Stafford in those deals.

[SabresFan526]

Agreed there, but he didn't give up any player/prospect with the upside of Stafford in those deals.

Then, maybe it's as simple as Max and draft picks for Marleau. I'd still take that trade.

[stenbaro]

Then, maybe it's as simple as Max and draft picks for Marleau. I'd still take that trade.

Theres no way they trade their captain for max and picks...

[stenbaro]

Gaborik could go for 3 players that aren't Gaborik.

 

I could see a Kotalik, Stafford, Afinogenov package or something like that getting him.

2 average at best players and a maybe..No way does that happen..I wish but there is no way in hell Lemaire would do that..He would be fired..

[X. Benedict]

2 average at best players and a maybe..No way does that happen..I wish but there is no way in hell Lemaire would do that..He would be fired..

 

I am pretty sure it is still Doug Risebrough. But he is in a tough spot. I think it is common knowledge the Gaborik wants out of Minnesota/trap hockey to play in the East. Now he isn't going to the Devils or Panthers and he's not likely to re-sign with the Wild.

 

It becomes of case of how much you can get and when. They need forwards. His value is greatest near the trade deadline next year, but if you are a playoff team, you don't want to wait that long and find yourself in the playoffs and trading your highest scorer.

 

If I am Risenbrough I be asking Boston if I could get Lucic/Kessel and picks.

And I am talking to Montreal about a combination Plecanec/Higgins/Begin.

[Bmwolf21]

Theres no way they trade their captain for max and picks...

San Jose has 11 UFA's (9 regular UFA's and two UFA Group IV's) and seven RFA's - right now they have 12 players under contract for next year at a $37M cap hit. Making that kind of trade would free up over $3M in cap space, so that alone might be reason to consider a deal. I'm not saying that package would get the deal done, just saying there are reasons to make a deal like that.

 

And now that Ron Wilson has been fired there is going to be more heat on GM Doug Wilson - he needs to find a way to get this team over the 2nd-round hump.

 

2 average at best players and a maybe..No way does that happen..I wish but there is no way in hell Lemaire would do that..He would be fired..

The only way Lemaire is getting fired is if he drives the Zamboni through the front pavilion of the Xcel Energy Center while drunk and nude.

 

Besides, Lemaire isn't the GM - Doug Riseborough is. (EDIT: X beat me to it.)

[X. Benedict]

And now that Ron Wilson has been fired there is going to be more heat on GM Doug Wilson - he needs to find a way to get this team over the 2nd-round hump.

The only way Lemaire is getting fired is if he drives the Zamboni through the front pavilion of the Xcel Energy Center while drunk and nude.

That and the pictures of him from that night with a tranny pal named Chloe.

 

Even then, it is only 50/50.

[Bmwolf21]

That and the pictures of him from that night with a tranny pal named Chloe.

 

Even then, it is only 50/50.

True.

 

But honestly, as long as someone like Isiah Thomas can still be employed after running an entire feeder league and an NBA franchise into the ground AND costing his employer millions in sexual harassment damages, I have no idea how to gauge whether someone is on the hot seat...

[stenbaro]

San Jose has 11 UFA's (9 regular UFA's and two UFA Group IV's) and seven RFA's - right now they have 12 players under contract for next year at a $37M cap hit. Making that kind of trade would free up over $3M in cap space, so that alone might be reason to consider a deal. I'm not saying that package would get the deal done, just saying there are reasons to make a deal like that.

 

And now that Ron Wilson has been fired there is going to be more heat on GM Doug Wilson - he needs to find a way to get this team over the 2nd-round hump.

The only way Lemaire is getting fired is if he drives the Zamboni through the front pavilion of the Xcel Energy Center while drunk and nude.

 

Besides, Lemaire isn't the GM - Doug Riseborough is. (EDIT: X beat me to it.)

Ok then let me fix that..Then Riseborough gets fired..

No team in there right mind trades a player who performs and leads just to get rid of salary while in their prime...

 

Besides they have 15 players under contract at 33 million according to Nhl numbers..Not12 for 37 mill..They have plenty of cap space not to have to deal their top scorer and a leader to remove cap space...

I cant read..I see u were talking about Marleau..That maybe..But Max is an underfperformer and picks dont get them the cup in the next 2 yrs..They are gonna want more thatn that..I think..

[SabresFan526]

Ok then let me fix that..Then Riseborough gets fired..

No team in there right mind trades a player who performs and leads just to get rid of salary while in their prime...

 

Besides they have 15 players under contract at 33 million according to Nhl numbers..Not12 for 37 mill..They have plenty of cap space not to have to deal their top scorer and a leader to remove cap space...

 

I cant read..I see u were talking about Marleau..That maybe..But Max is an underfperformer and picks dont get them the cup in the next 2 yrs..They are gonna want more thatn that..I think..

The problem is, you can say the exact same thing about Marleau as well. He's an underperformer. This year was the first time he's ever shown up in the playoffs, and what does that get him? A second round defeat? From SJ's perspective, they've invested $6.2 million/year over the next two years with a no trade clause on an underperforming captain who just hasn't been himself since Damphousse, Selanne, and Nolan left and since Thornton came to San Jose. Quite odd that all of those guys leaving and the arrival of Joe Thornton has caused him to regress, but it seems to be the case. If I'm Doug Wilson, I'd think about getting back into the first round, get some cap space and see where to invest the money.

[stenbaro]

The problem is, you can say the exact same thing about Marleau as well. He's an underperformer. This year was the first time he's ever shown up in the playoffs, and what does that get him? A second round defeat? From SJ's perspective, they've invested $6.2 million/year over the next two years with a no trade clause on an underperforming captain who just hasn't been himself since Damphousse, Selanne, and Nolan left and since Thornton came to San Jose. Quite odd that all of those guys leaving and the arrival of Joe Thornton has caused him to regress, but it seems to be the case. If I'm Doug Wilson, I'd think about getting back into the first round, get some cap space and see where to invest the money.

Would you trade max and picks for marleau if you were SanJose? I am not sure I would...

[SabresFan526]

Would you trade max and picks for marleau if you were SanJose? I am not sure I would...

You know, it's really funny what a thing like perspective can have in terms of answering that question. So, I know you are a huge Campbell fan, but we all knew what he was because we used to watch him day-in-day-out and we knew he was decent offensively, a gifted skater, but not great in the defensive zone. Well, if you read SJ message boards, there was a long honeymoon from the trade deadline up until the playoffs with Campbell. Then, all of a sudden, the threads start coming out, "Do we even want to re-sign Campbell?" "Cambell Sucks," etc. (cue stenbaro to insert Campbell "cold cocking Umberger" youtube clip)

 

By the same token, you should see how much Marleau has been berated on Sharks message boards over the last two years as well. Now, these are just fans, mind you, so I give a lot more credit to Doug Wilson than I give to any fan. However, if you look at Max's numbers prior to this year, and you see highlights of him, you see the scouting report, and most importantly, you see his cap number, it becomes very tantalizing to think that you could be the team that turns around this incredibly dynamic player in the more open Western Conference where speed and high flying play is the norm. We all know that Max is an enigma and we know what he is in reality, but that's because of our perspective of seeing him day-in-day-out. If you don't see him play everyday, there's a lot to like about a guy like Max, especially his production vs. his cap number. And, given where SJ is in terms of unsigned players and cap hits, saving about $3 million in cap space for a player that you could potentially turn around might be worth it. It's all a matter of perspective.

[stenbaro]

You know, it's really funny what a thing like perspective can have in terms of answering that question. So, I know you are a huge Campbell fan, but we all knew what he was because we used to watch him day-in-day-out and we knew he was decent offensively, a gifted skater, but not great in the defensive zone. Well, if you read SJ message boards, there was a long honeymoon from the trade deadline up until the playoffs with Campbell. Then, all of a sudden, the threads start coming out, "Do we even want to re-sign Campbell?" "Cambell Sucks," etc. (cue stenbaro to insert Campbell "cold cocking Umberger" youtube clip)

 

By the same token, you should see how much Marleau has been berated on Sharks message boards over the last two years as well. Now, these are just fans, mind you, so I give a lot more credit to Doug Wilson than I give to any fan. However, if you look at Max's numbers prior to this year, and you see highlights of him, you see the scouting report, and most importantly, you see his cap number, it becomes very tantalizing to think that you could be the team that turns around this incredibly dynamic player in the more open Western Conference where speed and high flying play is the norm. We all know that Max is an enigma and we know what he is in reality, but that's because of our perspective of seeing him day-in-day-out. If you don't see him play everyday, there's a lot to like about a guy like Max, especially his production vs. his cap number. And, given where SJ is in terms of unsigned players and cap hits, saving about $3 million in cap space for a player that you could potentially turn around might be worth it. It's all a matter of perspective.

Its funny that the perspective is I am a huge Campbell fan...I could care less if it was Tallinder or Vanek or Roy, my beef was you dont let your stars go..They are to hard to replace...I was just shocked at how many people were glad..The cap isnt gonna be an issue it wil always go up...I was bein a smart ass... :ph34r:

 

As far as Max goes everyone in the NHL knows his feet are one of the best and his hands are too slow..It isnt gonna be fixed and he is what he is..He is past the point of another team thinking they can fix him..His hands just arent NHL caliber...

I am all for a Max and first rdr for Marleau..I doubt it happens

[carpandean]

Besides they have 15 players under contract at 33 million according to Nhl numbers..Not12 for 37 mill..

Ok, let's get it straight: SJ has 14 players under contract for $41.78 million next year.

Thorton - $7.2 (new deal)

Marleau - $6.3 (new deal)

Cheechoo - $3

Griere - $1.775

Setoguchi - $1.247

Mitchell - $0.725

Michalek - $4.333 (new deal)

Rivet - $3.5

McLaren - $2.5

Carle - $3.438 (new deal)

Vlasic - $1.1

Murray - $0.55

Nabokov - $5.375

Greiss - $0.725

 

Total: $41.78

 

You have to be careful of two things when using nhlnumbers.com:

1) New deals - their cap hits (avg. of salaries over contract) are listed in a far right column.

2) Partial years played - the dark gray column is (cap hit) * (days/187). The cap hit, itself, is left of days.

 

 

Edit: I also remember reading in a non-Sabres article that SJ has a team cap that is well below where the NHL sets it.

[stenbaro]

Ok, let's get it straight: SJ has 14 players under contract for $41.78 million next year.

Thorton - $7.2 (new deal)

Marleau - $6.3 (new deal)

Cheechoo - $3

Griere - $1.775

Setoguchi - $1.247

Mitchell - $0.725

Michalek - $4.333 (new deal)

Rivet - $3.5

McLaren - $2.5

Carle - $3.438 (new deal)

Vlasic - $1.1

Murray - $0.55

Nabokov - $5.375

Greiss - $0.725

 

Total: $41.78

 

You have to be careful of two things when using nhlnumbers.com:

1) New deals - their cap hits (avg. of salaries over contract) are listed in a far right column.

2) Partial years played - the dark gray column is (cap hit) * (days/187). The cap hit, itself, is left of days.

Edit: I also remember reading in a non-Sabres article that SJ has a team cap that is well below where the NHL sets it.

If you read down further in my post you will see I misread his post answer..I Put up Minnnesotas numbers..LOL..

[SabresFan526]

Its funny that the perspective is I am a huge Campbell fan...I could care less if it was Tallinder or Vanek or Roy, my beef was you dont let your stars go..They are to hard to replace...I was just shocked at how many people were glad..The cap isnt gonna be an issue it wil always go up...I was bein a smart ass... :ph34r:

As far as Max goes everyone in the NHL knows his feet are one of the best and his hands are too slow..It isnt gonna be fixed and he is what he is..He is past the point of another team thinking they can fix him..His hands just arent NHL caliber...

I am all for a Max and first rdr for Marleau..I doubt it happens

I don't disagree with you there. I only interpreted your constant posting of Campbell lighting up Umberger to mean you were a huge fan. I guess I misinterpreted. That's a different argument altogether, and one that I probably would not argue with you on as for the most part we have been on the same side of the debate.

 

My point is when looking at players, it's a matter of perspective. We see Max everyday and SJ fans see Marleau everyday. I don't think Doug Wilson would be a complete idiot if he took back his first round pick and Max for Patrick Marleau. At the same time, I think Darcy might be taking a gamble with Marleau as his production last year and his previous year's playoff was subpar. End of the day, I still think it's probably an even trade that either GM might take.