Too many forwards

[spndnchz]

A month away from all this, but lots of discussion starting to come around. I've left off a few for reason of:

1. cheap as is

2. never would trade

3. concensus made already

 

Whether you would trade with a team or just be part of three way trade no matter.

 

Combine them up or let them go alone, who do you want to see gone or who do think is good to go in order to get someone bigger. (not meaning size necessarily, but more impact)

 

Let me know if something needs fixed.

[That Aud Smell]

Depending on who was available, I don't think there's anyone on that list I wouldn't move.

 

But, in the more likely scenarios, I broke this way:

 

Would Trade:

 

MacArthur - has his stock stopped rising?

Connolly - the magician is just too tinny.

Max - duh.

Kotalik - tough call, he's good value, pots ~20 and can play the boards pretty well. but still.

Kaleta - would anyone actually want our 4th line energy guy?

Ryan - see Kaleta, sort of.

 

Would Not Trade:

 

Stafford - we may be talking about him at around this time next year as we (or most of us) now talk about roy and Pomminstein.

Hecht - dude can be our glue, trouble is: are we worth holding together?

Paille - intrigued to see if he can make jump to a top-6 type.

Bernier - remember the predators debut? more of the same, please.

[SwampD]

I've never seen anything from Ryan to make me say wow.

Kaleta has to stay. Too much energy, hits, and he backchecks like a mofo.

Who was Max skating with before got hurt in 06-07(or was it 05-06) when he was scoring a lot? I just don't see him moving so we got to try and find someone that will make him better.

Connelly...well, we all know about him

[Bmwolf21]

Anyone on that list is tradeable for the right price.

[Team Strike Force]

I agree with Smell. I'd move any of those guys depending on the deal.

 

I think it'd be most difficult to part with Stafford and Paille than any of the others.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Depending on who was available, I don't think there's anyone on that list I wouldn't move.

 

But, in the more likely scenarios, I broke this way:

 

Would Trade:

 

MacArthur - has his stock stopped rising?

Connolly - the magician is just too tinny.

Max - duh.

Kotalik - tough call, he's good value, pots ~20 and can play the boards pretty well. but still.

Kaleta - would anyone actually want our 4th line energy guy?

Ryan - see Kaleta, sort of.

 

Would Not Trade:

 

Stafford - we may be talking about him at around this time next year as we (or most of us) now talk about roy and Pomminstein.

Hecht - dude can be our glue, trouble is: are we worth holding together?

Paille - intrigued to see if he can make jump to a top-6 type.

Bernier - remember the predators debut? more of the same, please.

 

I voted this same way except would not trade Kaleta ... I am a sucker for the hometown guy and like you said, not going to get much for him anyway, he's more valuable on the team than in trade.

[shrader]

What the hell, I'll comment on two players on that list.

 

-Kaleta has basically no trade value.

-Ryan (other than the fact that he also has no trade value) is an UFA.

[Hawerchuk]

I've never seen anything from Ryan to make me say wow. AGREED

 

Kaleta has to stay. Too much energy, hits, and he backchecks like a mofo. DEFINITELY

 

Who was Max skating with before got hurt in 06-07(or was it 05-06) when he was scoring a lot? BRIERE AND ROY SET HIM UP LIKE CRAZY in 05-06

 

Connelly...well, we all know about him CAN THIS GUY STAY HEALTHY EVER??

[awill29]

Here's my breakdown.

 

Untouchables

Paille--nearly got up to 20 goals this season, good backchecker, decent hands, great potential

Hecht--really stepped up nicely this year. One of the most underrated 2 way forwards in the game. Good hands, 20+G

Bernier--kinda on and off, but still, great potential. Hard shot, finishes his checks, gets the garbage goals

Stafford--a little disappointing this season, but he's still got a very bright future. Big size, good scorer

Kaleta--the next Ray.

 

In-the-Middles

MacArthur--stock has risen alot this year, then plummeted. Good scoring touch, but he's not good enough to get a full-time roster spot yet. If he works on his speed and defense this year, he'll be dressing regularly in 09-10.

Kotalik--20+ goals @ ~2M is a steal, but his defensive liability and inconsistent play keeps him from being a top 6 guy. Good size, but doesn't utilize it enough. Great shot.

Connolly--management will probably let him play out his contract. I don't see him getting extended, even if he plays 60 games, scores 25 goals and 60 points. He'll have to have little to no injuries and put up big numbers if he wants to stay a Sabre (or an NHL player) in 09-10.

 

Buh-Bye

Max. Enough said. The FO should just trade him and not let him play out his contract--10 goals and 29852986 turnovers isn't gonna cut it for 3M.

Ryan--Stone hands. Good speed, but no future with a team who already has too many forwards. Decent FO man.

[Knightrider]

I agree with BtPs... Stafford, Bernier, Hecht, Paille, and Kaleta, I'd keep.

 

Ryan grew on me as the season wore on. I'd like to see him re-signed.

 

Connolly had his chance this year. Either he's too damaged or he cannot operate in the new "old" NHL. Kotalik has a lot of value and could use the change in scenery. MacArthur is another guy who has value and did not seem to be able to fit into any of the lines.

[stenbaro]

I agree with Smell. I'd move any of those guys depending on the deal.

 

I think it'd be most difficult to part with Stafford and Paille than any of the others.

Depends what youre getting back..Anyone is tradeable....Stafford or Paille will not be here next yr..My Opionion

[shrader]

Kaleta--the next Ray.

 

Wouldn't he actually have to fight to be the next Ray?

[awill29]

Wouldn't he actually have to fight to be the next Ray?

 

I meant that as in an agitator. Maybe Varada?

[ROC Sabres]

Here's my breakdown.

 

Untouchables

Paille--nearly got up to 20 goals this season, good backchecker, decent hands, great potential

Hecht--really stepped up nicely this year. One of the most underrated 2 way forwards in the game. Good hands, 20+G

Bernier--kinda on and off, but still, great potential. Hard shot, finishes his checks, gets the garbage goals

Stafford--a little disappointing this season, but he's still got a very bright future. Big size, good scorer

Kaleta--the next Ray.

 

In-the-Middles

MacArthur--stock has risen alot this year, then plummeted. Good scoring touch, but he's not good enough to get a full-time roster spot yet. If he works on his speed and defense this year, he'll be dressing regularly in 09-10.

Kotalik--20+ goals @ ~2M is a steal, but his defensive liability and inconsistent play keeps him from being a top 6 guy. Good size, but doesn't utilize it enough. Great shot.

Connolly--management will probably let him play out his contract. I don't see him getting extended, even if he plays 60 games, scores 25 goals and 60 points. He'll have to have little to no injuries and put up big numbers if he wants to stay a Sabre (or an NHL player) in 09-10.

 

Buh-Bye

Max. Enough said. The FO should just trade him and not let him play out his contract--10 goals and 29852986 turnovers isn't gonna cut it for 3M.

Ryan--Stone hands. Good speed, but no future with a team who already has too many forwards. Decent FO man.

 

 

Agree with every point with the exception of Stafford. Granted, he's my favorite player, he didn't have the sophomore slump that most NHL players face. His numbers were just about the same this year as last year, even though i know he didn't play a full year last year he still has a lot of work to do and I can see this kid being one of the top players on this team, maybe even the league. Quote me on that all you want. I'll be here all decade.

[SabresFan526]

I'd be willing to part with MacArthur, Stafford, Connolly, Max, Kotalik, and Ryan. To clarify, I'm not sure I'm willing to just trade all or any of these guys purely to save salary or anything, but I think they are all tradeable in the right situation. Hecht, Paille, Bernier, and Kaleta I don't think are tradeable.

 

MacArthur - young, has some potential upside, not good enough to be on the Sabres right now (but that could change), but may fetch a pick or prospect

Stafford - young, tremendous upside potential, big, strong, plays the boards well, and could fetch a lot of value for Buffalo. I'd prefer to keep him, but in the right situation I would trade him if he can bring some value back to the organization

Connolly - too injury prone. Not sure how much trade value he has. He's great on the PP when he plays and can be dazzling, but you rarely ever see that talent, and that's paying too much for unused talent

Max - don't need to discuss much here

Kotalik - He's got some good value to the Sabres. Consistent 20 goal scorer, but he has his problems as well. Unless you can get better value in return for him, he's not worth trading, but if the situation came up to dump his salary to get a top notch player (i.e Gaborik, Marleau, etc), I'd do it in a heartbeat

Ryan - He really doesn't have any trade value in the NHL. I'd just let him walk as a UFA. He's not a bad guy, a nice 13th forward, but he's not going to get anything in return via trade and given that he's a 13th or 14th forward, you could probably just as easily do without his salary.

 

Just my take.

[nfreeman]

Anyone on that list is tradeable for the right price.

 

 

I agree with Smell. I'd move any of those guys depending on the deal.

 

I think it'd be most difficult to part with Stafford and Paille than any of the others.

 

Correct. Hecht is closest to untouchable for me, but for the right center or defenseman I'd trade him in a package. Frankly I doubt he'd be demanded by another team though -- he's pretty pricey (and on a long-term deal now too) for relatively modest numbers. Stafford, Paille and Bernier are the most likely to be demanded by another team.

[stenbaro]

Correct. Hecht is closest to untouchable for me, but for the right center or defenseman I'd trade him in a package. Frankly I doubt he'd be demanded by another team though -- he's pretty pricey (and on a long-term deal now too) for relatively modest numbers. Stafford, Paille and Bernier are the most likely to be demanded by another team.

I can see Paille or Stafford being wanted by another team I just didnt see enough in Bernier to think he is in the same class as those 2..Maybe it was a the shock of being traded but he didnt show a whole lot except for his debut. Out of the 3 I would be more dissapointed in losing Paille. He seems to score a key goal and plays really well at most aspects of his game..Solid checker good penalty killer..Almost reminds me of a young Claude Lemieux..You keep those kinda players..

[Chief Enabler]

I meant that as in an agitator. Maybe Varada?

exactly. I dont remember Varada in his early days like Kaleta is now. Varada has always been in my all time sabres top ten.

[nfreeman]

I can see Paille or Stafford being wanted by another team I just didnt see enough in Bernier to think he is in the same class as those 2..Maybe it was a the shock of being traded but he didnt show a whole lot except for his debut. Out of the 3 I would be more dissapointed in losing Paille. He seems to score a key goal and plays really well at most aspects of his game..Solid checker good penalty killer..Almost reminds me of a young Claude Lemieux..You keep those kinda players..

 

Interesting, and I might agree. I think he has the most edge out of the 3 -- e.g. he's the most likely to go flying into a scrum in front of Miller and take somebody out -- and that is a precious commodity on our team. Still, I'd trade him to get the right center/defenseman.

 

exactly. I dont remember Varada in his early days like Kaleta is now. Varada has always been in my all time sabres top ten.

 

I liked VV too, and he was good at getting under the opponents' skin, but he didn't lay out big hits on a consistent basis like Kaleta. Varada also didn't drive people crazy and draw penalties as much as Kaleta does. Kaleta makes them insane.

[carpandean]

I can see Paille or Stafford being wanted by another team I just didnt see enough in Bernier to think he is in the same class as those 2..Maybe it was a the shock of being traded but he didnt show a whole lot except for his debut. Out of the 3 I would be more disappointed in losing Paille. He seems to score a key goal and plays really well at most aspects of his game..Solid checker good penalty killer..Almost reminds me of a young Claude Lemieux..You keep those kinda players..

Bernier is young enough and has great potential, so he would have some trade value. However, his performance this year, bot with the Sharks and with the Sabres, helped us more in the getting him signed for cheap factor than in the trading him in a package for someone great factor. I will be interested to see how he does after having a summer and a training camp under the Sabres' system. Next season will be a better indication of what he can do here long-term.

 

Stafford's season didn't help his stock much either. He also has great potential and showed some of last season, but didn't show nearly as much this season. Unfortunately, only Paille had a good year, increasing his trade value. I, too, would hate to see him go, but agree that at least one of the three likely will. The only good news for Paille is that we are a little thinner on the left wing than the right (for top-three-line wingers). On the left, we have Hecht, Vanek, Paille and MacArthur, with a few others who can play on the left when needed. On the right, we have Pominville, Stafford, Bernier, Kotalik, Afinogenov. However, if Max goes, the difference goes down.

[LabattBlue]

Here's my breakdown.

 

Untouchables

Paille--nearly got up to 20 goals this season, good backchecker, decent hands, great potential

Hecht--really stepped up nicely this year. One of the most underrated 2 way forwards in the game. Good hands, 20+G

Bernier--kinda on and off, but still, great potential. Hard shot, finishes his checks, gets the garbage goals

Stafford--a little disappointing this season, but he's still got a very bright future. Big size, good scorer

Kaleta--the next Ray.

 

Untouchables? Really? Granted they are young players that I would like to have on the team, but we're not talking Roy or Pominville here. Until you see a proposed deal that they are involved in and what the Sabres would get in return, I wouldn't put any of them into this category.

 

That being said, I would place them into the "not looking to move them unless the right deal comes along" category.

 

The assets I'd be looking to move first in an effort to find a scoring center, top 4 physical dman and a backup goalie are...

 

Connolly

Kotalik

Max

Any Rochester prospect

Any junior prospect outside of Enroth

Any draft pick

[BetweenThePipes00]

The assets I'd be looking to move first in an effort to find a scoring center, top 4 physical dman and a backup goalie are...

 

Connolly

Kotalik

Max

Any Rochester prospect

Any junior prospect outside of Enroth

Any draft pick

 

ANY!?!?!? Even the almighty Gerbe?!?! I mean, remember, he might have Flutie Magic ... if they did not get that kid signed, fans were going to riot and burn down the arena ... ;)

Sorry, that is another thread ...

Seriously, I don't think they could ever get value for Connolly so I say keep him, plan as if he is not there and whatever he gives you is icing on the cake. I know it is contradictory to say keep him but get rid of Max and Kotalik because it's not like those guys are going to fetch huge talent in trade either ... but they are what they are. If the trade Max and he returns to point-per-game form, I would not regret it ... he needed to move and the Sabres needed the turnover machine gone. He's not the kind of player they need. But if they move Connolly and he stays healthy, I think I would regret it ... Before the concussion he was playing great two-way hockey and he makes such a huge difference on the power play ... they've stuck with him this long, no point in giving him away now. But again, even as I typed all that I recognize it flies in the face of my general philosophy on building the team so .... flame away ...

[That Aud Smell]

ANY!?!?!? Even the almighty Gerbe?!?! I mean, remember, he might have Flutie Magic ... if they did not get that kid signed, fans were going to riot and burn down the arena ... ;)

Wouldn't it be something if another diminutive guy from BC managed to enthrall the area?

 

I don't think they could ever get value for Connolly so I say keep him, plan as if he is not there and whatever he gives you is icing on the cake.

That icing won't taste too good if it's being spread on a sh*t cake.

 

(I kid. But the metaphor raises a good question: If next year's Sabres team were a cake, and Connolly the icing, what kind of cake and icing would they be? I'll go with a yellow cake made from an off-brand box mix covered with a half-jar of Duncan Hines fudge-infused chocolate icing. The cake will be solid, if unspectacular - maybe a little dry - perhaps even a slightly disappointing version of a cake that can be really quite excellent when all of the right ingredients are present (e.g., high quality eggs with big yolks, some vanilla extract). The icing will be sweet, tasty and familiar ... but there won't be enough of it.)

[BetweenThePipes00]

Wouldn't it be something if another diminutive guy from BC managed to enthrall the area?

And maybe did it without being a selfish ass? Yeah, that would be something.

 

That icing won't taste too good if it's being spread on a sh*t cake.

Agreed ... since it was my plan it would include making sure the cake was better than it was last year before I iced it.

 

(I kid. But the metaphor raises a good question: If next year's Sabres team were a cake, and Connolly the icing, what kind of cake and icing would they be? I'll go with a yellow cake made from an off-brand box mix covered with a half-jar of Duncan Hines fudge-infused chocolate icing. The cake will be solid, if unspectacular - maybe a little dry - perhaps even a slightly disappointing version of a cake that can be really quite excellent when all of the right ingredients are present (e.g., high quality eggs with big yolks, some vanilla extract). The icing will be sweet, tasty and familiar ... but there won't be enough of it.)

I don't think I can follow that ...

[spndnchz]

Wouldn't it be something if another diminutive guy from BC managed to enthrall the area?

That icing won't taste too good if it's being spread on a sh*t cake.

 

(I kid. But the metaphor raises a good question: If next year's Sabres team were a cake, and Connolly the icing, what kind of cake and icing would they be? I'll go with a yellow cake made from an off-brand box mix covered with a half-jar of Duncan Hines fudge-infused chocolate icing. The cake will be solid, if unspectacular - maybe a little dry - perhaps even a slightly disappointing version of a cake that can be really quite excellent when all of the right ingredients are present (e.g., high quality eggs with big yolks, some vanilla extract). The icing will be sweet, tasty and familiar ... but there won't be enough of it.)

As your post time shows, it's only 11:40am.

 

It appears you follow the "It's noon somewhere" rule :beer: