Pominville's Worth

[BetweenThePipes00]

PS I don't want to hijack the thread, but am I the only one who wonders why Brad Richards is getting huge money? I'm not sure if it was a reaction to TB winning the Cup, but every time I watch him, he seems very average.

Well he got that deal after a 91-point season ... the season before that, he won the Cup and was Conn Smythe winner as playoff MVP ... he had missed TWO games in five NHL seasons and he was only 26. They probably thought they were doing the right thing locking him up. It's easy to say now it was too much.

[Chief Enabler]

anybody watching the standoff on the 90?

Whats going on. :unsure:

 

anyhow, pominville is the future captain, just to plant that seed; keep it in consideration. pin this thread

[shrader]

anyhow, pominville is the future captain, just to plant that seed; keep it in consideration. pin this thread

 

I still see this as Roy's team, but Lindy's big on going gimmicky with the captaincy. I wouldn't mind seeing those two as co-captains.

[Chief Enabler]

I still see this as Roy's team, but Lindy's big on going gimmicky with the captaincy. I wouldn't mind seeing those two as co-captains.

i'm cool with that. if they want to spike the kool-aid, whatever. just win baby. :blush:

 

buffalo news just posted the gm employee standoff thing. got it. careful what you wish for delphi employees

[stenbaro]

Whats going on. :unsure:

 

anyhow, pominville is the future captain, just to plant that seed; keep it in consideration. pin this thread

They shut down the 190 at Ontario street going both ways..Dude has a gun pointing at his head..Started out as a domestic argument in the car..Lady ran away....He is wearing a GM coat maybe he got laid off just speculating..

 

Note..Its over and no one was hurt...Yeh....

[Bmwolf21]

They shut down the 190 at Ontario street going both ways..Dude has a gun pointing at his head..Started out as a domestic argument in the car..Lady ran away....He is wearing a GM coat maybe he got laid off just speculating..

 

Note..Its over and no one was hurt...Yeh....

I've seen this in a couple stories, so I guess this is the story for now:

 

Mike DeGeorge (yep, that Mike DeGeorge) Buffalo Police Spokesperson, "It appears that the incident started as some type of domestic involving a couple from out of town and apparently one of the individuals had a weapon."

 

LINK

[awill29]

I've seen this in a couple stories, so I guess this is the story for now:

 

Mike DeGeorge (yep, that Mike DeGeorge) Buffalo Police Spokesperson, "It appears that the incident started as some type of domestic involving a couple from out of town and apparently one of the individuals had a weapon."

 

LINK

 

I was watching it for a little bit on the news. Some witness called in and said the guy was beating a woman inside of his car, then was pulled over for speeding. He waved a gun at the officer, and the police called for backup. They had a big standoff for a couple of hours, and they eventually got him out of his car by throwing a smoke grenade or tear gas in there. Thank god no one was hurt.

[carpandean]

I still see this as Roy's team, but Lindy's big on going gimmicky with the captaincy. I wouldn't mind seeing those two as co-captains.

I was thinking the same thing and, if I had to bet money, I'd put it down on the Roy/Pommer combo in 2009-10. Next year, I think we'll see Pommer again, but maybe not full time. We might see some of Hecht and Spacek again, plus a spot or two for Roy.

 

I'd be happy if Jason got the 5 for 5 deal, but he might take a little more per year and I'd be willing to go for 6 years, too. I'll guess 6 year, $33 million.

[wonderbread]

I'd be happy if Jason got the 5 for 5 deal, but he might take a little more per year and I'd be willing to go for 6 years, too. I'll guess 6 year, $33 million.

 

 

I'd say that's a pretty good deal for him. That puts him at 32 years old. he then would be elegible for another decent contract provided he continues to preform at a high level.

 

snipe away.

[BetweenThePipes00]

After sleeping on it, I think $5 million/year might get it done ... the Erat deal definitely does not help, and if I was Pommer's agent I would defnitely make a case that my guy deserves more. But the Sabres gave Roy $4 million/year and he was just as productive, he also plays all situations and he's the same age. So if I am the Sabres, I'm starting at $4-4.5 million a year ... the market has gone up but we're offering a long-term deal, a year before free agency. You may be better than Erat but you're not that much more valuable to this team than Roy and we still need to take care of Miller ... maybe it takes $5 million if they are stubborn, but given the Roy deal I doun't think the Sabres would be "low-balling" if they start at $4-4.5 million a year.

[That Aud Smell]

I'd be happy if Jason got the 5 for 5 deal, but he might take a little more per year and I'd be willing to go for 6 years, too. I'll guess 6 year, $33 million.

 

I'd say that's a pretty good deal for him. That puts him at 32 years old. he then would be elegible for another decent contract provided he continues to preform at a high level.

 

I think those #'s are on the mark too -- maybe just a touch south of the nut for which I think he will sign ($33.75?) -- and I agree that'd be a good deal for him.

 

As others have said, if we can get that kid a true 2-way center: watch out. :beer:

[nfreeman]

Eveybody has that option but other teams get their players to sign before playing it out, and to be fair, Buffalo has done the same with Roy and Hecht. I think a couple of things play into the Pominville deal;

1) He was grossly under-paid in his last deal and will want to make up for that

2) I think both he and Ryan can be convinced to take less if they believe they are being treated fairly and more importantly, if they believe management is comitted to building a winner. Why would either player sign up for 5 to 10 years of mediocrity?

 

Good post. Agree 100% that they will both stay for fair deals if they are convinced that management isn't mickey mouse.

 

I was thinking the same thing and, if I had to bet money, I'd put it down on the Roy/Pommer combo in 2009-10. Next year, I think we'll see Pommer again, but maybe not full time. We might see some of Hecht and Spacek again, plus a spot or two for Roy.

 

I'd be happy if Jason got the 5 for 5 deal, but he might take a little more per year and I'd be willing to go for 6 years, too. I'll guess 6 year, $33 million.

 

I think Lindy has more faith in Pommer than in Roy. I like your guess on the #s

 

I think those #'s are on the mark too -- maybe just a touch south of the nut for which I think he will sign ($33.75?) -- and I agree that'd be a good deal for him.

 

As others have said, if we can get that kid a true 2-way center: watch out. :beer:

 

That center is already on the roster, but he's made of glass. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but I just have this feeling that Timmy is going to put it together in his contract year, stay healthy for 65+ games, and get Pommer close to 40 goals.

 

Of course, we can't count on that happening and need another real center.

[shrader]

I don't know exactly when this happened, but the league rejected the Erat deal. I'd love to know how it violated the CBA. Either Nashville tried to pull a fast one on the league or they're just idiots. I'm sure they'll quickly work something out, but its still an interesting situation.

[Bmwolf21]

I don't know exactly when this happened, but the league rejected the Erat deal. I'd love to know how it violated the CBA. Either Nashvilled tried to pull a fast one on the league or they're just idiots. I'm sure they'll quickly work something out, but its still an interesting situation.

Interesting...I'd like to hear why they rejected the contract, since you don't see that happen a lot...

[BetweenThePipes00]

It was rejected because apparently a deal can only fluctuate a certain amount from year to year ... like, a guy can't make $10 million one year and $1 million the next and have it be a $5.5 million cap hit ... because they would just buy out the second year and they'd have a $10 million player for only a $5.5 million cap hit. That's an EXTREME example ... in his case apparently they just had to move like $250K from one year to another and it should be approved ...

 

EDIT - here is the story - http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../805150356/1028

[tom webster]

I don't know exactly when this happened, but the league rejected the Erat deal. I'd love to know how it violated the CBA. Either Nashville tried to pull a fast one on the league or they're just idiots. I'm sure they'll quickly work something out, but its still an interesting situation.

 

It's is just a case of some teams having no idea what the rules are. Say what you want about the Flyers, but htey knew exactly how to structure Briere's deal so the last two years did not violate the CBA.

Notice how year 7 is $4 million less then year 6 thus allowing year 8 to be $1 million less then year 7.

[carpandean]

It's is just a case of some teams having no idea what the rules are. Say what you want about the Flyers, but they knew exactly how to structure Briere's deal so the last two years did not violate the CBA.

Notice how year 7 is $4 million less then year 6 thus allowing year 8 to be $1 million less then year 7.

Personally, I think there should be tighter restrictions on this sort of contract. I'd like to see something like "no year's salary may be less than half of the highest year's salary." Danny's contract probably would have changed to 7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.0-3.75-3.75, which is still $52 million over eight years, but those $3.75 years might make them think twice about whether a buy-out is worth it.

[BetweenThePipes00]

The interesting thing will be what they do when the CBA changes again before all these contracts expire .... I mean, it has to be tweaked when it comes up for renewal, right? They have to change that rule that you can't extend a guy unless he is in the final year of his deal ...

I'm sure they will grandfather in old deals somehow ... but if they do make the restrictions tougher like carpandean is suggesting, that will make guys like Briere valuable in trade the same way expiring contracts are huge chips in the NBA ... a guy whose deal drops will be attractive to a team that can afford a buyout.

[tom webster]

Personally, I think there should be tighter restrictions on this sort of contract. I'd like to see something like "no year's salary may be less than half of the highest year's salary." Danny's contract probably would have changed to 7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.5-7.0-3.75-3.75, which is still $52 million over eight years, but those $3.75 years might make them think twice about whether a buy-out is worth it.

 

There's is no doubt that they took advantage of a loop hole. Nobody expected that teams would create such long term contracts and they out smarted themselves instead of simply stating that the last year cannot be any less then fifty percent of the first year.

[tom webster]

The interesting thing will be what they do when the CBA changes again before all these contracts expire .... I mean, it has to be tweaked when it comes up for renewal, right? They have to change that rule that you can't extend a guy unless he is in the final year of his deal ...

I'm sure they will grandfather in old deals somehow ... but if they do make the restrictions tougher like carpandean is suggesting, that will make guys like Briere valuable in trade the same way expiring contracts are huge chips in the NBA ... a guy whose deal drops will be attractive to a team that can afford a buyout.

 

I don't see them changing this rule for two reasons;

1) I have not heard anybody but Buffalo complain about this.

2) It prevents players under contract from holding out for a new deal before their other deal expires.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I don't see them changing this rule for two reasons;

1) I have not heard anybody but Buffalo complain about this.

2) It prevents players under contract from holding out for a new deal before their other deal expires.

 

I'm not sure it does this entirely ... maybe they can't pull the old "re-do my 6-year deal after 3 years" bit, but Pomminstein could certainly say he's not coming to camp until he gets an extension that addresses the fact that he is underpaid this season. Hell, if Miller did that the Sabres would be screwed given they have no viable alternative.

But you are probably right, it probably does protect management more than it does the players, so the players would have to be the ones to push for change ... given that the salary floor will likely be higher than the cap 3 years ago, they won't want anything changed.

[shrader]

Any contracts that were made under an old CBA are held to the restrictions of that CBA. Just look at guys like Jagr and Alfredsson. A good portion of Jagr's contract was picked up by Washington, which is not allowed anymore. Since that happened before this CBA, Washington still had to pick up the post-lockout years of that contract. Alfredsson had option years written into his contract pre-CBA, which is also not allowed anymore. Ottawa was still able to pick up those years since it was a pre-lockout contract.

[carpandean]

Any contracts that were made under an old CBA are held to the restrictions of that CBA. Just look at guys like Jagr and Alfredsson. A good portion of Jagr's contract was picked up by Washington, which is not allowed anymore. Since that happened before this CBA, Washington still had to pick up the post-lockout years of that contract. Alfredsson had option years written into his contract pre-CBA, which is also not allowed anymore. Ottawa was still able to pick up those years since it was a pre-lockout contract.

Jagr also had an option year in 08/09, which according to nhlnumbers.com was not picked up.

 

What's really scary is that the Rangers had one of the smallest cap spaces left at $1.8 million with $3.4 million of Jagr's cap hit not counting against their total and $2.8 million in bonuses for Shanahan that get counted against the cap, but also provide a corresponding cap cushion to cover them. In other words, with a $50 million cap, they had $55 million worth of players and $1.8 million of cap space ... and they still got knocked out in the conference semis.

[stenbaro]

Jagr also had an option year in 08/09, which according to nhlnumbers.com was not picked up.

 

What's really scary is that the Rangers had one of the smallest cap spaces left at $1.8 million with $3.4 million of Jagr's cap hit not counting against their total and $2.8 million in bonuses for Shanahan that get counted against the cap, but also provide a corresponding cap cushion to cover them. In other words, with a $50 million cap, they had $55 million worth of players and $1.8 million of cap space ... and they still got knocked out in the conference semis.

It wasnt for a lack of trying to bring better players in..We would have been ecstatic as SAbre fans had the roles been reversed and we bring in Gomez and say Nylander and added them to drury and company..

[carpandean]

It wasnt for a lack of trying to bring better players in..We would have been ecstatic as SAbre fans had the roles been reversed and we bring in Gomez and say Nylander and added them to drury and company..

That's besides the point. The point was that they put together a team that nobody else could have because of a grand-fathered contract, spent more money than anyone else (ignoring LTIR cushions, which the Flyers have a bunch of) and still didn't win the cup. In other words, you can't buy a cup. Spending more may increase your chances to a point, but you can't guarantee it by spending more than everyone else.