Balsillie Contacts Golisano

[tom webster]

This from the Toronto Star sports business reporter Rick Westhead. It will be interesting to see if TG or LQ respond to this.

 

http://www.thestar.com/article/421713

[Buffalo Wings]

I don't know....this guy sounds a bit shady to me. It seems like his whole purpose was to buy a team just so he could move it somewhere. I doubt he could do that with the Sabres (why bother moving them an hour away to Hamilton), but it wouldn't sit well with me with this guy in the owner's box.

 

Nonetheless, it's clear to me that Golisano won't be around very much longer.

[X. Benedict]

I don't know....this guy sounds a bit shady to me. It seems like his whole purpose was to buy a team just so he could move it somewhere. I doubt he could do that with the Sabres (why bother moving them an hour away to Hamilton), but it wouldn't sit well with me with this guy in the owner's box.

 

Nonetheless, it's clear to me that Golisano won't be around very much longer.

How is that clear?

[Taro T]

This from the Toronto Star sports business reporter Rick Westhead. It will be interesting to see if TG or LQ respond to this.

 

http://www.thestar.com/article/421713

Balsillie contacting Tom wouldn't be surprising. Owing one of the competitors that are thwarting your plans is one successful strategy to implementing your plans.

 

I would be extremely surprised if Tom would sell even a minority interest to him. With all the charitable foundations that Tom is a part of and the efforts he makes to "give back to the community", I can't see him joining forces with someone desperately looking to relocate an existing club and readily associating his name with the death of pro hockey in WNY.

 

The response, or lack thereof, will be definitely be interesting.

[nfreeman]

This is the key phrase to me:

 

"Golisano indicated he would be open to selling the club ? but not if Balsillie intended to relocate it."

 

So, Balsillie calls TG, asks if he's interested in selling, TG says not if you're going to move the team, but if it's going to stay in Buffalo, there's a number at which he'd sell (which is true for pretty much every owner of every sports team), and Balsillie either offers a number that's too low or says thanks but no thanks because he wants to buy with no strings attached. Nothing too surprising there.

 

The dark cloud on the horizon, though, is that although he's not going to get the Sabres, Balsillie is going to keep trying. He's got literally billions of dollars and there are always NHL teams on the market. If he ever succeeds in getting a team in Hamilton/Waterloo, it's going to hurt the Sabres.

[tom webster]

Balsillie contacting Tom wouldn't be surprising. Owing one of the competitors that are thwarting your plans is one successful strategy to implementing your plans.

 

I would be extremely surprised if Tom would sell even a minority interest to him. With all the charitable foundations that Tom is a part of and the efforts he makes to "give back to the community", I can't see him joining forces with someone desperately looking to relocate an existing club and readily associating his name with the death of pro hockey in WNY.

 

The response, or lack thereof, will be definitely be interesting.

 

Golisano won't sell if there isn't "golden parachute" assurances that team remain here. Also., the NHL is not going to let on of their most successful American franchises to leave.

An important part of that story is the mentioning of the MSG tv deal and the fact that they write that the franchise has a positive cash flow which in many ways is far more important then profit/loss. People on this board have to stop buying this " we are small market, we can barely afford to exist crap!" According to a recent article in Business First, if Channel 29 includes the estimated Canadian audience within its viewing audience, their viewing market would be third only to New York and LA, just ahead of Chicago. Now , before everyone starts writing, I know there are Canadian laws and American FCC restrictions on how to market these areas, but there are ways.

However, may be Balsillie just wants to pull a Knox deal. If he is owner of the Sabres' he eliminates one of the obstacles to getting a franchise for Kitchener or Hamilton, wherever he wants it.

[apuszczalowski]

Golisano won't sell if there isn't "golden parachute" assurances that team remain here. Also., the NHL is not going to let on of their most successful American franchises to leave.

An important part of that story is the mentioning of the MSG tv deal and the fact that they write that the franchise has a positive cash flow which in many ways is far more important then profit/loss. People on this board have to stop buying this " we are small market, we can barely afford to exist crap!" According to a recent article in Business First, if Channel 29 includes the estimated Canadian audience within its viewing audience, their viewing market would be third only to New York and LA, just ahead of Chicago. Now , before everyone starts writing, I know there are Canadian laws and American FCC restrictions on how to market these areas, but there are ways.

However, may be Balsillie just wants to pull a Knox deal. If he is owner of the Sabres' he eliminates one of the obstacles to getting a franchise for Kitchener or Hamilton, wherever he wants it.

WUTV? The fox channel?

 

The only problem with him owning the Sabres to eliminate the competition for a team in K/W is that how would he then obtain the new team being the owner of the Sabres? The NHL won't agree to an owner owning 2 franchises, and I doubt they would be for allowing a Jeffrey Loria Expo's/Marlins type swap that happened when he took over the Marlins.

 

I don't see how Golisano can sell a team and ensure that the new owner can't move the team, I think him saying that is just a way of saving face for himself so he doesn't look like a bad guy. Plus I don't think the NHL would have a huge problem allowing Buffalo to relocate somewhere so close to where they already are. The distance is probably the same as say the Rangers relocating to the other side of NYC. The problem Basillie would have is convincing the NHL and the owners that Buffalo could not continue to support an NHL team, and that there is more then enough support in Hamilton/Kitchener/Waterloo/whereever he wants, which I don't think he could. Those areas are already filled with Leafs fans. Just look at the Niagara Region. I would say that a minimum of 60-80% of all nhl fans in the area are Leafs fans, even though Buffalo is closer. The other 20-40% is a mixture of other NHL clubs.

 

I don't see the NHL granting Basillie permission to own a team because they already know his intentions of moving a team to K/W area. The NHL knows they have the Canadian market already and a team could succeed almost anywhere in Canada, they want to expand the game and take it to places where there isn't much interest to grow the sport, and branch it out. I don't know if its a smart idea or not, personally I think they should tap the markets out where its popular first, then branch out

[tom webster]

WUTV? The fox channel?

 

The only problem with him owning the Sabres to eliminate the competition for a team in K/W is that how would he then obtain the new team being the owner of the Sabres? The NHL won't agree to an owner owning 2 franchises, and I doubt they would be for allowing a Jeffrey Loria Expo's/Marlins type swap that happened when he took over the Marlins.

 

I don't see how Golisano can sell a team and ensure that the new owner can't move the team, I think him saying that is just a way of saving face for himself so he doesn't look like a bad guy. Plus I don't think the NHL would have a huge problem allowing Buffalo to relocate somewhere so close to where they already are. The distance is probably the same as say the Rangers relocating to the other side of NYC. The problem Basillie would have is convincing the NHL and the owners that Buffalo could not continue to support an NHL team, and that there is more then enough support in Hamilton/Kitchener/Waterloo/whereever he wants, which I don't think he could. Those areas are already filled with Leafs fans. Just look at the Niagara Region. I would say that a minimum of 60-80% of all nhl fans in the area are Leafs fans, even though Buffalo is closer. The other 20-40% is a mixture of other NHL clubs.

 

I don't see the NHL granting Basillie permission to own a team because they already know his intentions of moving a team to K/W area. The NHL knows they have the Canadian market already and a team could succeed almost anywhere in Canada, they want to expand the game and take it to places where there isn't much interest to grow the sport, and branch it out. I don't know if its a smart idea or not, personally I think they should tap the markets out where its popular first, then branch out

 

As long as the franchise swap met all their requirements, they would have little to no legal gorunds to stop it. After all, both owners would already be league approved. Besides, Balsillie is a business man who wants to own a successful NHL franchise, he may decide he likes it in Buffalo.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I don't know how I would feel about him owning the Sabres ... he seems like a Mark Cuban, do whatever it takes to win kind of guy ... but he does seem shady.

Living in Nashville, I saw the whol Preds thing play out, and he basically got bitch-slapped by the NHL ... if he had kept his mouth shut and bought the team, I think they may have let him move it in a couple years. But he even admitted on Nashville radio that he upset a lot of owners by coming in and trying to play by his own rules when he was the new guy on the block. It's an exclusive club and they all have egos and agendas ... you have to get your foot in the door and pay your dues like the Knoxes did with the Seals. And that's what scares me ... has he learned his lesson and will he try to buy a team like the Sabres and say all the right things and then pull the rug out in 5 years.

[apuszczalowski]

As long as the franchise swap met all their requirements, they would have little to no legal gorunds to stop it. After all, both owners would already be league approved. Besides, Balsillie is a business man who wants to own a successful NHL franchise, he may decide he likes it in Buffalo.

Highly doubtful. His entire reason for wanting a team is to put one in his home area, where his buisness is located. The move to Hamilton is just a temporary stop til an arena is built in Kitchener/Waterloo. He isn't interested in just buying a team just to own one, he wants one for his home area.

 

I do think that if he wasn't so quick to jump the gun with relocating a team, he would already own the Pens or the Preds and would have them moved in around 5 years, but he jumped the gun

[Bmwolf21]

Maybe if he buys the Sabres we could play most of the games in Buffalo and a handful in Kitchener/Waterloo/Hamilton...I've heard that's the way to grow your market area... :unsure:

[K-9]

Golisano won't sell if there isn't "golden parachute" assurances that team remain here. Also., the NHL is not going to let on of their most successful American franchises to leave.

An important part of that story is the mentioning of the MSG tv deal and the fact that they write that the franchise has a positive cash flow which in many ways is far more important then profit/loss. People on this board have to stop buying this " we are small market, we can barely afford to exist crap!" According to a recent article in Business First, if Channel 29 includes the estimated Canadian audience within its viewing audience, their viewing market would be third only to New York and LA, just ahead of Chicago. Now , before everyone starts writing, I know there are Canadian laws and American FCC restrictions on how to market these areas, but there are ways.

However, may be Balsillie just wants to pull a Knox deal. If he is owner of the Sabres' he eliminates one of the obstacles to getting a franchise for Kitchener or Hamilton, wherever he wants it.

 

I'm all for that. My question is, can the FO do the same thing? They seem pretty intractable regarding their stance on THEIR cap vs. league cap. And again, as much as I HATE that, I can understand it from a business perspective. They simply can't compete with the Detroits, Phillys, and NYs of this league in the revenue generation department.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[nucci]

I'm all for that. My question is, can the FO do the same thing? They seem pretty intractable regarding their stance on THEIR cap vs. league cap. And again, as much as I HATE that, I can understand it from a business perspective. They simply can't compete with the Detroits, Phillys, and NYs of this league in the revenue generation department.

 

GO BILLS!!!

They do get a big chunk of money from revenue sharing, which makes it so they can compete.

[shrader]

I think the ideal situation here for Balsillie (since the NHL will never let him have a team in Hamilton) would be to own the Sabres and then put an AHL affiliate in Hamilton. Obviously there are some major roadblocks, but that may be the closest he could ever get to having a team up there. He could end up trying to move a couple games up there the Sabres did with Rochester and it would be far more successful.

 

Its a huge long shot, but like I said, that may be his only option.

[Bmwolf21]

I think the ideal situation here for Balsillie (since the NHL will never let him have a team in Hamilton) would be to own the Sabres and then put an AHL affiliate in Hamilton. Obviously there are some major roadblocks, but that may be the closest he could ever get to having a team up there. He could end up trying to move a couple games up there the Sabres did with Rochester and it would be far more successful.

 

Its a huge long shot, but like I said, that may be his only option.

Isn't there already an AHL affiliate in Hamilton? ;)

[GoatheadInCT]

If the league wouldn't let him buy the NASHVILLE PREDATORS and move them, then what makes you think the

owners would EVER allow him to buy and move the Buffalo Sabres?? No chance... no chance.

[Buffalo Wings]

How is that clear?

I realize it wasn't exactly spoken by him or someone, so I'm just making some presumptions. Perhaps using the word "clear" was even too strong.

 

I'm just thinking that now that the Sabres are turning a profit and worth way more than what TG bought the team for, now is the time to sell.

[K-9]

They do get a big chunk of money from revenue sharing, which makes it so they can compete.

 

I'm not saying I disagree but I can't say I DO agree until I see the actual numbers. How much revenue did they receive from the sharing system? What were there total revenues? How do those total revenues compare to the Detroits, Phillys, and NYs of the league?

 

If I can be made to see that the FOs claims are baseless, I'll be the first with the pitchfork and shovel to storm their bastille. Until then I know we have the lowest ticket prices and a VERY small TV market (although highly rated) that limits the investment from MSG and other networks.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[nucci]

I'm not saying I disagree but I can't say I DO agree until I see the actual numbers. How much revenue did they receive from the sharing system? What were there total revenues? How do those total revenues compare to the Detroits, Phillys, and NYs of the league?

 

If I can be made to see that the FOs claims are baseless, I'll be the first with the pitchfork and shovel to storm their bastille. Until then I know we have the lowest ticket prices and a VERY small TV market (although highly rated) that limits the investment from MSG and other networks.

 

GO SABRES!!!

I don't have actual numbers. I recall Quinn mentioning revenue sharing and the Toronto Star article on the front page of SS tell a little of the TV revenue.

[shrader]

Isn't there already an AHL affiliate in Hamilton? ;)

 

You know those major roadblocks I mentioned... ;)

[X. Benedict]

I realize it wasn't exactly spoken by him or someone, so I'm just making some presumptions. Perhaps using the word "clear" was even too strong.

 

I'm just thinking that now that the Sabres are turning a profit and worth way more than what TG bought the team for, now is the time to sell.

 

I think the entire operating model, (for better or worse) is taken with a long view towards sustainability.

 

If TG was interested in selling high, he is going about it entirely the wrong way. He would be pumping long term money in to get the maximum out short term. I don't see that that has been happening.

[Taro T]

Highly doubtful. His entire reason for wanting a team is to put one in his home area, where his buisness is located. The move to Hamilton is just a temporary stop til an arena is built in Kitchener/Waterloo. He isn't interested in just buying a team just to own one, he wants one for his home area.

 

I do think that if he wasn't so quick to jump the gun with relocating a team, he would already own the Pens or the Preds and would have them moved in around 5 years, but he jumped the gun

Yep. He's been pretty clear that he wants to be the guy that brings an NHL team to his hometown. That what he says the next time he tries to buy a team probably won't promote that intent won't change the fact that his goal is to be the owner of the Kitchener [insert name here] of the NHL.

 

They do get a big chunk of money from revenue sharing, which makes it so they can compete.

I'm not so sure that they are getting a "big chunk of money" from revenue sharing. I've read a lot of posts here stating that the Sabres are a mid-revenue team. The revenue sharing $'s are allocated in large part based on how poor a team's revenues were; if the Sabres were in the top 1/2 of the league they won't get anything and teams 16-20 don't get very much.

 

Especially if the article's quote of the Sabres getting $9MM from MSG is correct, then the Sabres' revenue sharing $'s are almost certainly less than that; my GUESS would be that they're getting $3MM or less in revenue sharing.

[Bmwolf21]

Yep. He's been pretty clear that he wants to be the guy that brings an NHL team to his hometown. That what he says the next time he tries to buy a team probably won't promote that intent won't change the fact that his goal is to be the owner of the Kitchener [insert name here] of the NHL.

If recent NBA events have taught us anything, it's that you can't believe the potential owners' public proclamations to keep a team where it is and not move the franchise. One would hope that the NHL would block any potential move from an established hockey market, but if not moving the team isn't in writing then I would be very leery of any owner outside the area purchasing the team.

[nucci]

Yep. He's been pretty clear that he wants to be the guy that brings an NHL team to his hometown. That what he says the next time he tries to buy a team probably won't promote that intent won't change the fact that his goal is to be the owner of the Kitchener [insert name here] of the NHL.

I'm not so sure that they are getting a "big chunk of money" from revenue sharing. I've read a lot of posts here stating that the Sabres are a mid-revenue team. The revenue sharing $'s are allocated in large part based on how poor a team's revenues were; if the Sabres were in the top 1/2 of the league they won't get anything and teams 16-20 don't get very much.

 

Especially if the article's quote of the Sabres getting $9MM from MSG is correct, then the Sabres' revenue sharing $'s are almost certainly less than that; my GUESS would be that they're getting $3MM or less in revenue sharing.

Thanks, figured you would know. Sabres are not hurting at all.

[Kristian]

I don't have actual numbers. I recall Quinn mentioning revenue sharing and the Toronto Star article on the front page of SS tell a little of the TV revenue.

 

Just when I though I couldn't find anything positive about Golisano selling the team to this guy, I think of Quinn getting the boot :thumbsup:

 

Yeah, I know, I know, but you gotta think positive, right?