Low-balling Gerbe?

[apuszczalowski]

Isn't this one of the Sabres top prospects? Isn't he the guy that was one fo the best players in the tournament a couple weeks ago? Didn't he get a couple page article in SI last week?

 

People don't think that its a big deal the Sabres good lose him if they can't work something out before he has the chance to become a FA? Sometimes i just don't get this board

[shrader]

Whether or not they're trying to "low ball" him or not, if they don't sign this guy, it's only going to continue to kill their cred throughout the league. Not to mention with a fanbase that's sick to its stomach already over what's happened here.

 

So if Gerbe wants to stay in school for his senior year, it makes the team look bad? Funny, no one said the same thing about the Kings when Brian Boyle did the same exact thing and stayed for his senior season at BC. For those of you who have no clue what I'm talking about, Boyle was a higher profile player at BC a few years back, didn't have numbers as high as Gerbe, but the fact that he was 6'7 boosted his status quite a bit.

[LabattBlue]

Isn't this one of the Sabres top prospects? Isn't he the guy that was one fo the best players in the tournament a couple weeks ago? Didn't he get a couple page article in SI last week?

 

People don't think that its a big deal the Sabres good lose him if they can't work something out before he has the chance to become a FA? Sometimes i just don't get this board

I'm going on record right now. I think he is an above average prospect(despite his size) and there is no way the Sabres screw this up to the point where they lose Gerbe. He will be signed.

[shrader]

I'm going on record right now. I think he is an above average prospect(despite his size) and there is no way the Sabres screw this up to the point where they lose Gerbe. He will be signed.

 

Next year

[BetweenThePipes00]

I like a lot of what I have seen from the kid, especially his fearlessness and jam that AudSmell points out. But it's one thing to drive the net with a full cage in college and another to do it at 5-foot-5 with Pronger or Chara waiting for you. Not saying he won't do it, saying it might not be quite as effective.

Either way, I just disagree with the premise of the article that they HAVE to give him WHATEVER he wants or the rest of the players will NEVER consider signing with Buffalo because they are not committed to winning and the fans will turn on the Sabres.

The story is that the offseason as a whole is HUGE. The Grebe thing is a very small part of it. They need to extend Miller and Pomminstein, they need a physical D-man, I'd like to see a veteran 3rd/4th line center who can win faceoffs and provide leadership (Stephane Yelle?), and I'd also like them to find a way to lose Max and Kotalik in favor of a winger LIKE a Ryan Malone, although maybe not actually him. If they do most of those things, no one is going to make a big deal about Gerbe. They will still have until August of '09 before they lose his rights, correct?

[That Aud Smell]

But it's one thing to drive the net with a full cage in college and another to do it at 5-foot-5 with Pronger or Chara waiting for you. Not saying he won't do it, saying it might not be quite as effective.

 

True, that.

 

They will still have until August of '09 before they lose his rights, correct?

 

Yes - the current CBA closed what people who know more than I do call "the Van Ryn loophole."

 

By way of reference:

 

"In its place, the new CBA provides exclusivity only 'through August 15 following the graduation of his college class.' Because the period of exclusivity extends principally during 'non-playing' summer months following the senior year, a college senior finishing his college career will not miss any playing time before he becomes a free agent. Without 'losing' anything by sitting out a year (as he would have had to under the prior CBA), he can gain unlimited leverage. The shortening of this exclusivity is the dynamic changing the relationship between the college game and the NHL.

 

All of which suggests that Minnesota Wild Assistant GM Tom Lynn's quote that:

 

'(The NHL and NHL Players? Association) took care to make sure (the change to the agreement) didn?t hurt the college game by giving the teams four years after drafting a guy to sign him,' Lynn said. 'The teams wouldn?t have to rush a guy out of college just in order to have his rights.

 

'(Before) they?d only have one year after he left school. So, if a player, after his freshman year, was thinking, ?Huh, I?ll leave school for a year, then I?ll be free?. Now, the team gets him for four years, so the player will either stay in school or sign with his team.'?

[shrader]

True, that.

Yes - the current CBA closed what people who know more than I do call "the Van Ryn loophole."

 

By way of reference:

 

"In its place, the new CBA provides exclusivity only 'through August 15 following the graduation of his college class.' Because the period of exclusivity extends principally during 'non-playing' summer months following the senior year, a college senior finishing his college career will not miss any playing time before he becomes a free agent. Without 'losing' anything by sitting out a year (as he would have had to under the prior CBA), he can gain unlimited leverage. The shortening of this exclusivity is the dynamic changing the relationship between the college game and the NHL.

 

All of which suggests that Minnesota Wild Assistant GM Tom Lynn's quote that:

 

'(The NHL and NHL Players? Association) took care to make sure (the change to the agreement) didn?t hurt the college game by giving the teams four years after drafting a guy to sign him,' Lynn said. 'The teams wouldn?t have to rush a guy out of college just in order to have his rights.

 

'(Before) they?d only have one year after he left school. So, if a player, after his freshman year, was thinking, ?Huh, I?ll leave school for a year, then I?ll be free?. Now, the team gets him for four years, so the player will either stay in school or sign with his team.'?

 

That wouldn't have been an option for him at this point if the old CBA was still in place. Gerbe is 3 years removed from the day he was drafted. Players had to leave college and go the major junior route within 2 years of being drafted to be able to take advantage of that.

[That Aud Smell]

That wouldn't have been an option for him at this point if the old CBA was still in place. Gerbe is 3 years removed from the day he was drafted. Players had to leave college and go the major junior route within 2 years of being drafted to be able to take advantage of that.

 

right - gotcha. :thumbsup:

[mayers21]

They are probably taking their time, evaluating prospects they want to sign. There really is no rush.

 

Keep in mind Enroth needs be signed by June 1st, and so does Felix Shultz if they want to sign them. They're both draft picks from '06 and need to be signed by the 1st or they go back into the draft.

 

I believe the rule is a team has two years to sign a player from major junior or Europe, or they go back into a draft. College players can go unsigned for longer, as long as they have eligibility remaining. So Gerbe and Kennedy don't HAVE to be signed this summer.

[ExiledInIllinois]

A couple of things...

 

1. I don't know if this is true or not, but if it is, nothing surprises me with the Sabres organization anymore when it comes to $$$.

 

2. I thought Tim Schmidt was the bass player for the Eagles. When did he switch careers? :D

 

Timothy B. Schmidt.

 

:nana: :nana:

[stenbaro]

They are probably taking their time, evaluating prospects they want to sign. There really is no rush.

 

Keep in mind Enroth needs be signed by June 1st, and so does Felix Shultz if they want to sign them. They're both draft picks from '06 and need to be signed by the 1st or they go back into the draft.

 

I believe the rule is a team has two years to sign a player from major junior or Europe, or they go back into a draft. College players can go unsigned for longer, as long as they have eligibility remaining. So Gerbe and Kennedy don't HAVE to be signed this summer.

This process has worked out for them so many times in the past why rock the boat??? :wallbash:

[matter2003]

Yeah, reports are they are lowballing Tim Kennedy too and talks have stalled...

 

What a great strategy by this team...draft great collegiate players who lead their teams to championships and then do everything in your power to make sure they refuses to sign and decide to become UFA's...

 

No wonder this team is in the position they are in now----they can't even get it right with guys who CAN'T go anywhere yet....

[PromoTheRobot]

Yeah, reports are they are lowballing Tim Kennedy too and talks have stalled...

 

What a great strategy by this team...draft great collegiate players who lead their teams to championships and then do everything in your power to make sure they refuses to sign and decide to become UFA's...

 

No wonder this team is in the position they are in now----they can't even get it right with guys who CAN'T go anywhere yet....

Same as it ever was.

 

PTR

[carpandean]

Yeah, reports are they are lowballing Tim Kennedy too and talks have stalled...

Source? (Not saying that you are wrong, but "reports" doesn't mean much.)

[tom webster]

Source? (Not saying that you are wrong, but "reports" doesn't mean much.)

 

Don't know about anybody sources. Its been pretty much established that certain members of this board won't believe anything that isn't accopanied by hidden camera tape. So how about we try something else. Let's use deductive reasoning.

The evidence;

1) local kid who wanted to come out last year.

2) wave of college signings over

3) Organization looking for some good publicity

4) Letters soon to go out outlining price increase

5) Very narrow available pricing on entry level contracts

6) Player still not signed

 

Conclusion;

???

[LabattBlue]

Source? (Not saying that you are wrong, but "reports" doesn't mean much.)

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabresnh...ory/338636.html

 

Sabres prospects dangle

 

With every day that passes without a contract agreement, the chances increase that Sabres prospect Nathan Gerbe is headed back to college for his senior year. If he plays out his final season, he?s as good as gone.

 

You would think the Sabres learned their lessons over the past few years, but they continue jerking around their players. They could end up alienating ? and losing ? Gerbe and South Buffalo native Tim Kennedy if both players decide to get tough in negotiations. And they would have every right.

 

Gerbe led the nation in scoring, led his team to a national championship, was the best player in the Frozen Four and was selected to play for Team USA in the world championships. He?s going to play in the NHL. He shouldn?t accept less than the maximum allowed for rookies, or $850,000 a year.

 

And you wonder why players don?t want to deal with these guys.

 

Kennedy is in a similar position. He led Michigan State to a national title the previous year and led the Spartans in scoring two straight years. Sources said recent contract talks stalled after the Sabres made a lowball offer. We?ll see if he elects to play out his senior year and become a UFA.

 

Both would find plenty of suitors.

[carpandean]

Don't know about anybody sources. Its been pretty much established that certain members of this board won't believe anything that isn't accopanied by hidden camera tape. So how about we try something else. Let's use deductive reasoning.

And, it's been just as well established that the other half will condemn them before they've actually done or not done something, over-looking any good/right decisions that they've made, simply because a writer at the Buffalo News has an unnamed "source". There has to be a happy medium.

 

I don't discount your evidence, but plenty of prospects haven't signed yet and they still have time to negotiate.

[shrader]

So if they play out their senior seasons they're as good as gone? Strange, I seem to recall the Sabres having no trouble signing basically all of their recent early round draft picks out of junior leagues right before their two year's of draft rights were about to expire. Why would it all of a sudden be any different? Sure, they can become free agents, but they're still subject to the entry level restrictions. They're not going anywhere. Just to put things into perspective here, Thomas Vanek signed in September. Yeah, that's pretty late, but there is still time for these things to get done.

 

I know this will sound like the usual Bucky bashing, but the things he's saying here about Gerbe prove to me that he's making things up just to push his agenda. He's completely ignoring the possibility that Gerbe wants to stay for his senior season. Sure, the money would be nice, but if he doesn't need it badly, what exactly does he stand to gain from 1 year of $62,500? He has a chance to achieve Flutie status at BC (no matter how little I think of Doug). It something worth seriously considering.

[tom webster]

So if they play out their senior seasons they're as good as gone? Strange, I seem to recall the Sabres having no trouble signing basically all of their recent early round draft picks out of junior leagues right before their two year's of draft rights were about to expire. Why would it all of a sudden be any different? Sure, they can become free agents, but they're still subject to the entry level restrictions. They're not going anywhere. Just to put things into perspective here, Thomas Vanek signed in September. Yeah, that's pretty late, but there is still time for these things to get done.

 

I know this will sound like the usual Bucky bashing, but the things he's saying here about Gerbe prove to me that he's making things up just to push his agenda. He's completely ignoring the possibility that Gerbe wants to stay for his senior season. Sure, the money would be nice, but if he doesn't need it badly, what exactly does he stand to gain from 1 year of $62,500? He has a chance to achieve Flutie status at BC (no matter how little I think of Doug). It something worth seriously considering.

 

As you said, the juniors only re-enter the draft and can't be sure if the team that drafts them will be any better while the College kids become complete free agents.

Also, Vanek's situation was different in that in fell under the previous CBA which made a lot of difference with regards to salary parameters.

As far Gerbe being gone if he gets to his senior season, if he gets to June of '09, why wouldn't he then choose the team he wants? As you said, the money will probably be the same at that point. I think it is a logical assumption to believe that Buffalo may not be his first choice, all things being equal.

You are right about one thing, if he wants to stay, there is nothing they can do but as of now you are the only person I hear saying that definitively.

 

I do have one other question, in response to Carp, are there really a lot of other prospects in the College ranks that still haven't signed?

[stenbaro]

So if they play out their senior seasons they're as good as gone? Strange, I seem to recall the Sabres having no trouble signing basically all of their recent early round draft picks out of junior leagues right before their two year's of draft rights were about to expire. Why would it all of a sudden be any different? Sure, they can become free agents, but they're still subject to the entry level restrictions. They're not going anywhere. Just to put things into perspective here, Thomas Vanek signed in September. Yeah, that's pretty late, but there is still time for these things to get done.

 

I know this will sound like the usual Bucky bashing, but the things he's saying here about Gerbe prove to me that he's making things up just to push his agenda. He's completely ignoring the possibility that Gerbe wants to stay for his senior season. Sure, the money would be nice, but if he doesn't need it badly, what exactly does he stand to gain from 1 year of $62,500? He has a chance to achieve Flutie status at BC (no matter how little I think of Doug). It something worth seriously considering.

I cant speak for others but only myself..My feelings are that the Sabres although I will give them the benefit of another offseason to right the ship, its stalled negotiations like this that put them where they are now..Watching most of their freeagent defections playing while they are still looking up at the sky wondering what just happened..I understand that negotiations can take lil bit but to not have either one of them signed by now tells me there is no change in the way they do business and that is what irritates me to the point of not even following them anymore...They are a franchise with what seems like competent hockey knowledge and above average business sense..The results of the past yr lead me to believe there is some major structural problems in the organization that are making them a dysfunctional team...Its mindboggling to watch them operate on a weekly basis..Here is a golden oppurtunity to bring in some promising above average talent and they have put there heads in the sand again...What about Enroth??? What the hell are they doing? Are they really on the golf course???? Sounds like an old Talking Heads song..once in a lifetime..Water flowing under ground..

Click.

[Bmwolf21]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabresnh...ory/338636.html

 

Sabres prospects dangle

 

With every day that passes without a contract agreement, the chances increase that Sabres prospect Nathan Gerbe is headed back to college for his senior year. If he plays out his final season, he?s as good as gone.

 

You would think the Sabres learned their lessons over the past few years, but they continue jerking around their players. They could end up alienating ? and losing ? Gerbe and South Buffalo native Tim Kennedy if both players decide to get tough in negotiations. And they would have every right.

 

Gerbe led the nation in scoring, led his team to a national championship, was the best player in the Frozen Four and was selected to play for Team USA in the world championships. He?s going to play in the NHL. He shouldn?t accept less than the maximum allowed for rookies, or $850,000 a year.

 

And you wonder why players don?t want to deal with these guys.

 

Kennedy is in a similar position. He led Michigan State to a national title the previous year and led the Spartans in scoring two straight years. Sources said recent contract talks stalled after the Sabres made a lowball offer. We?ll see if he elects to play out his senior year and become a UFA.

 

Both would find plenty of suitors.

Cue the standard "but that whiny, crying, jilted idiot Bucky Eklund wrote it, so it must not be true at all" responses.

[shrader]

As you said, the juniors only re-enter the draft and can't be sure if the team that drafts them will be any better while the College kids become complete free agents.

Also, Vanek's situation was different in that in fell under the previous CBA which made a lot of difference with regards to salary parameters.

As far Gerbe being gone if he gets to his senior season, if he gets to June of '09, why wouldn't he then choose the team he wants? As you said, the money will probably be the same at that point. I think it is a logical assumption to believe that Buffalo may not be his first choice, all things being equal.

You are right about one thing, if he wants to stay, there is nothing they can do but as of now you are the only person I hear saying that definitively.

 

What he stands to gain is a couple games of professional hockey. Depending on the timing, he could get in a couple AHL regular season games and a possible playoff run (which would all depend on how well our farm team is rebuilt, so who knows how likely that is). If we waits for UFA, he doesn't get in any action until October. You'd think that the chance to pick your own team would be appealing, but really, how many times have we seen that play out? I don't know how important that is to these kids, but I'm willing to bet that its not all that important in most cases.

 

I will say one thing though, out of this class of 3 college juniors, I think have already signed the one with the greatest potential for professional hockey.

[stenbaro]

What he stands to gain is a couple games of professional hockey. Depending on the timing, he could get in a couple AHL regular season games and a possible playoff run (which would all depend on how well our farm team is rebuilt, so who knows how likely that is). If we waits for UFA, he doesn't get in any action until October. You'd think that the chance to pick your own team would be appealing, but really, how many times have we seen that play out? I don't know how important that is to these kids, but I'm willing to bet that its not all that important in most cases.

 

I will say one thing though, out of this class of 3 college juniors, I think have already signed the one with the greatest potential for professional hockey.

I dont watch colege hockey much so this is no shot, You really think Butler will be a better Pro player than the other 2? Why is that..What does he bring?

[X. Benedict]

Cue the standard "but that whiny, crying, jilted idiot Bucky Eklund wrote it, so it must not be true at all" responses.

"but they continue jerking around their players."

 

 

What does that mean, Bucky?

 

If they are going to return to college, then they don't have an agent, right?

So who are they negotiating with?

 

Gerbe may not have enough classes to be a senior under NCAA rules - (until next week at least - is he taking finals?).

Until he's a senior he can't talk contract without jeopardizing NCAA eligibility (his leverage?)

 

But we should just accept he's being jerked around....or has there been an offer?

 

I don't think it can be both yet.

Maybe Shrader has some know here?

[shrader]

I dont watch colege hockey much so this is no shot, You really think Butler will be a better Pro player than the other 2? Why is that..What does he bring?

 

I'm not so sure the forward ever amount to anything more than a 3rd liner at best. Butler with a little extra size and his ability offers us something we don't have much of in our system. I think he has a much easier road and more potential of becoming a #4 defenseman than that 3rd line potential the forwards have.

 

 

X, they all have what are known as family advisors. Basically, they're agents but don't receive any payment. You'd be hard pressed to find any drafted college player who doesn't have one.