(OT) Bills 2008 NFL Draft Talk

[inkman]

The Bills drafted a women beater. I guess that whole thing about character players is a bunch of BS.

That was Marv's mantra.

[cdexchange]

Without Hardy I give the Bills Draft a 'B-".

 

With Hardy I give it a 'D'. I just can't cheer for someone who strikes a women and child. I got a sick feeling when that pick was announced. The only thing that could be worse is the Sabres trading for Danny Heatly or the Bills trading for Larry Little.

 

 

Maybe Rae Carruth will get an early release :thumbsup:

[Mike Oxhurtz]

I'm totally against domestic violence. I feel, considering that Hardy practically raised himself, that he could have done much worse. I'm not making excuses for Hardy, or giving him a pass on what he did, but considering his dad was in jail for selling drugs, then moving in with an uncle who just got out of jail, it's amazing that he didn't follow in his family's foot steps and land up in jail or dead. I hope the veterans on the team will take Hardy under their wings on provide him with the mentorship that he needs so he stays on the right path.

[deluca67]

I'm totally against domestic violence. I feel, considering that Hardy practically raised himself, that he could have done much worse. I'm not making excuses for Hardy, or giving him a pass on what he did, but considering his dad was in jail for selling drugs, then moving in with an uncle who just got out of jail, it's amazing that he didn't follow in his family's foot steps and land up in jail or dead. I hope the veterans on the team will take Hardy under their wings on provide him with the mentorship that he needs so he stays on the right path.

How do you feel about pulling a gun a parent? I will guess that since he is not under contract that the NFL has no recourse. Maybe it's time to name him Pac-Man Hardy.

[tom webster]

How do you feel about pulling a gun a parent? I will guess that since he is not under contract that the NFL has no recourse. Maybe it's time to name him Pac-Man Hardy.

 

While I would never condone pulling a gum, calling that guy a parent might be the most outrageous thing you ever posted. Biological father yes, parent NO!

[That Aud Smell]

So, I was just thinking to myself, "Hey, an OT Bills threads at SS -- I can't sift through the volume of stuff at TSW, but I can probably have a good Bills talk here."

 

Then I saw that the talk had basically devolved into discussing whether James Hardy should be executed by injection or the chair.

 

Okay, I kid - and I don't mean to make light of what he apparently did.

 

More thoughts follow:

 

I am active, but more of a lurker on TSW.

That's me too.

 

Seems overall the Bills will be the worst team in their division.

It's always difficult to project how the season will go for the large majority of teams in that league - but if I were a betting man (I'm not), and the odds were better than 2-1 (3-1?), I'd put a 50-spot on the Bills winning 10 games.

 

How do you feel about having a player that struck a women and was accused of striking an infant?

What's Hardy got - a buckshot slap? :ph34r:

 

I feel a little better after reading this morning that they addressed the issue, but would have felt better if they picked someone else.

Same here.

 

The NFL has lost its appeal and image. To be honest, it has fallen to the same level the NBA is at, in my opinion.

I'm out of love with the NFL as well - but not for the reason that it's become too thuggish as when the NBA hit its low point a few years back (it's rebounded on that front - although the winning style of play in the Spurs era is still unwatchable for me). For me, the NFL has just become too big, too monstrous of a corporate entity and brand identity for me to care about.

 

*My wife hates how much I love the Sabres. Any of you guys have that problem?

Uh, yeah.

 

That was Marv's mantra.

:cry:

 

I'm totally against domestic violence.

Take it easy with the controversial pronouncements, Ox.

 

While I would never condone pulling a gum, calling that guy a parent might be the most outrageous thing you ever posted. Biological father yes, parent NO!

Great call.

[Chief Enabler]

It does seem like the Bills are picking up steam in the respect catagory. I didnt realize the Jets only had 4 wins last year and the Dolphins were Dolphins. Parcells goal should be somewhere around 7-9 or 8-8 I think, same with the Jets. The Patriots must go down this year maybe to 11-5; or 10-6 would be awesome.

 

With a fresh start and all healthy; the Bills still need to be creative on both sides IMO. They look good on paper. :thumbsup:

[deluca67]

While I would never condone pulling a gum, calling that guy a parent might be the most outrageous thing you ever posted. Biological father yes, parent NO!

My apologies, I did not realize you were a close personal friend of the family.

 

"Parent" or "Biological Father" aside, he pulled a gun. The one instance of violence has now become two. Two that have been reported. There seems to be a pattern developing here. It will be interesting to see how many Bills fans who have expressed negative opinions regarding Pac-Man Jones will suddenly offer understanding and excuses for Pac-Man Hardy.

[tom webster]

My apologies, I did not realize you were a close personal friend of the family.

 

"Parent" or "Biological Father" aside, he pulled a gun. The one instance of violence has now become two. Two that have been reported. There seems to be a pattern developing here. It will be interesting to see how many Bills fans who have expressed negative opinions regarding Pac-Man Jones will suddenly offer understanding and excuses for Pac-Man Hardy.

 

 

Have you read the guys rap sheet? You don't need to be a close personal friend to realize that this guy was no more a "parent" to him then you or me.

I said that I am not alright with pulling a gun and I hope the guy gets the help he needs. So far the one big difference with PacMan is the show of remorse. PacMan still doesn't get and doesn't deserve another chance.

[deluca67]

Have you read the guys rap sheet? You don't need to be a close personal friend to realize that this guy was no more a "parent" to him then you or me.

I said that I am not alright with pulling a gun and I hope the guy gets the help he needs. So far the one big difference with PacMan is the show of remorse. PacMan still doesn't get and doesn't deserve another chance.

What show of remorse? Are you saying that if Jones would have released written statements apologizing it would be OK? Hardy was just drafted into the NFL and you would think that he would be smart enough to stay away from situations like that. I don't know anything about his father or the girl friend he knocked around. I do know the Bills have just wasted a high draft pick that could have been used to pick other WR's that are just as good if not better than Hardy without the character flaws. After all that has been going on in the NFL over the past while why in hell would he have a gun? The lack of good judgment should be a huge concern for the Bills.

[tom webster]

What show of remorse? Are you saying that if Jones would have released written statements apologizing it would be OK? Hardy was just drafted into the NFL and you would think that he would be smart enough to stay away from situations like that. I don't know anything about his father or the girl friend he knocked around. I do know the Bills have just wasted a high draft pick that could have been used to pick other WR's that are just as good if not better than Hardy without the character flaws. After all that has been going on in the NFL over the past while why in hell would he have a gun? The lack of good judgment should be a huge concern for the Bills.

 

1) I said in the past that I would not have picked him

2) Jones doesn't even pretend to show remorse

3) Say what you want, but Hardy's statement at least suggest that he knows he screwed up

4) He has a gun with a permit and he may feel he needs it to protect himself from people like his father who spent most of their life in jail and now may be out there with their hand out.

5) For the every story about guys like Lawrence Phillips and Pac Man Jones there are much more private stories about guys who turned their lives around and became model citizens and role models, so to say that he is already a wasted pick is just....you.

[BetweenThePipes00]

It's way too early to say it was a wasted pick, just like it was too early to assume he wasgoing to be a model citizen going forward when he was drafted. I don't like it either but let it play out. We can't assume he is going to be Pac Man any more than we can assume he is going to clean up his act and be Eric Moulds (who arrived with a lazy reputation and had a domestic incident hitting a woman early in his career in Buffalo).

We all want them to WIN and WIN NOW, and as much as we might not like it, sometimes to do that you have to take some risks and hope a guy has grown up or will grow up quickly. So far he's not off to a great start ...

[shrader]

so to say that he is already a wasted pick is just....you.

 

:thumbsup:

[deluca67]

It's way too early to say it was a wasted pick, just like it was too early to assume he wasgoing to be a model citizen going forward when he was drafted. I don't like it either but let it play out. We can't assume he is going to be Pac Man any more than we can assume he is going to clean up his act and be Eric Moulds (who arrived with a lazy reputation and had a domestic incident hitting a woman early in his career in Buffalo).

We all want them to WIN and WIN NOW, and as much as we might not like it, sometimes to do that you have to take some risks and hope a guy has grown up or will grow up quickly. So far he's not off to a great start ...

We do want all of our sports teams to win. Shouldn't you respect the players on those teams? I like Vanek and Roy as players, if tomorrow they were involved in a violent incident with a women I would want them cut. You shouldn't have to compromise your integrity in order to be a fan. I guess if you can run fast and jump high it doesn't matter what you do. Just another example how professional sports becomes less fun every day.

[tom webster]

We do want all of our sports teams to win. Shouldn't you respect the players on those teams? I like Vanek and Roy as players, if tomorrow they were involved in a violent incident with a women I would want them cut. You shouldn't have to compromise your integrity in order to be a fan. I guess if you can run fast and jump high it doesn't matter what you do. Just another example how professional sports becomes less fun every day.

 

 

Its the easy access to information that hurts your enjoyment of the sport, not necessarily to proliferation of unsavory events by unsavory people.

First, it is a very small percentage of players invoived in this stuff. Its not like the News could have did a story about how Leodis McKelvin had brunch with his mother on mother's day.

Second, its like I said earlier. Things aren't really a whole lot different then what they were years ago. Mickey Mantle was one of the most revered athletes ever. However, he treated his family like crap till later in life. When he talked of being so drunk that he didn't even remember an at bat in an all star game, people just laugh it off. If Alex Rodriguez did that today, people would want him suspended for life!

[BetweenThePipes00]

We do want all of our sports teams to win. Shouldn't you respect the players on those teams? I like Vanek and Roy as players, if tomorrow they were involved in a violent incident with a women I would want them cut. You shouldn't have to compromise your integrity in order to be a fan. I guess if you can run fast and jump high it doesn't matter what you do. Just another example how professional sports becomes less fun every day.

OK, but if they get cut and the team misses the playoffs again, are you calling for Ruff and Regier to be fired? Or do they get a pass because they stood up for family values at the expense of their own professional success? I'm not saying you'd be wrong, just that it's a very unrealistic expectation. If the team sucks as a result, a few fans will applaud it and the rest will stop buying tickets and someone will be held responsible. The Sabres are a bad example because of the job security those guys have, but when you are talking about an NFL football team that has missed the playoffs for 8 straight seasons and you are going into your 3rd year as coach ... you better win and win NOW. You just saw a team in your own division fire a guy after ONE season. It's a results-oriented business, the people who determine whether you have a career really don't care if you had nice guys, they want to know if you won.

I am not condoning what Hardy allegedly did. I'm just saying I understand why the Bills and every other team take these kinds of risks by bringing in players like this. There are 53 guys on the team, i am sure some of them are a-holes and I would not like them. I don't think it "compromises my integrity" if I am still happy when one of the a-holes scores a touchdown any more than it would if I liked a movie some jerk actor stars in. You'll drive yourself nuts if you only enjoy it if the nice guys win, especially in the NFL ... with that many guys on a team, odds are there are several guys you would not want living on your block.

[That Aud Smell]

Great thread - I appreciate that the Bills are getting some OT play here - a fun topic in a community far superior to TSW, IMO.

 

There seems to be a pattern developing here.

Fair point.

 

I do know the Bills have just wasted a high draft pick

This is kneejerkism at just about its kneejerkiest.

 

The lack of good judgment should be a huge concern for the Bills.

Agreed, as fixed.

 

4) He has a gun with a permit and he may feel he needs it to protect himself from people like his father who spent most of their life in jail and now may be out there with their hand out.

I grew up with liberal parents in an urban setting, so I really don't get the whole gun thing - but I can see how this could be true.

 

any more than we can assume he is going to clean up his act and be Eric Moulds (who arrived with a lazy reputation and had a domestic incident hitting a woman early in his career in Buffalo).

This is also fair -- and let's recall that a number of the "glory day" Bills had their own problems with booze, drugs, DW/UI's, and chasing/hitting skirt -- "Saint" Thurman chief among them.

 

Shouldn't you respect the players on those teams? I like Vanek and Roy as players, if tomorrow they were involved in a violent incident with a women I would want them cut. You shouldn't have to compromise your integrity in order to be a fan. I guess if you can run fast and jump high it doesn't matter what you do. Just another example how professional sports becomes less fun every day.

Do yourself a favor and spend some time gently removing people from those pedestals you've built -- put them up there, and they will disappoint you. Isolated incidents of driving home from a party after a few too many, or slapping your loved one in a fit of anger -- those are bad mistakes to be sure, but mistakes just the same. If your favorite players prove themselves over time to be incorrigible goons, that's one thing -- but the whinging about how a guy needs to shipped out of town if he slips up (perhaps even before he arrives in town) is just lame.

 

Its not like the News could have did a story about how Leodis McKelvin had brunch with his mother on mother's day.

Classic.

 

Second, its like I said earlier. Things aren't really a whole lot different then what they were years ago. Mickey Mantle was one of the most revered athletes ever. However, he treated his family like crap till later in life. When he talked of being so drunk that he didn't even remember an at bat in an all star game, people just laugh it off. If Alex Rodriguez did that today, people would want him suspended for life!

So true. And what of Babe Ruth? That guy was a fall-down drunk, fat slob womanizer who had no respect for his community or regard for his obligations as a professional athlete --I can't respect any of that -- let's exhume him and drag his ass through the streets of Manhattan.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I wish I could just swoop in and comment on a bunch of different stuff liek Aud Smell does. I love it. I think would sprain something trying to figure out how to quote that many different things in one post. :D

[That Aud Smell]

I wish I could just swoop in and comment on a bunch of different stuff liek Aud Smell does. I love it. I think would sprain something trying to figure out how to quote that many different things in one post. :D

Thanks, Pipes -- I asked long ago how to harness that force -- and it was Scott who sent me to the Degobah system, where I was schooled by Blue in the ways of quoting and replying to multiple posts.

[BetweenThePipes00]

It also does not help that I am long-winded as all hell ... can you imagine the novel I would write trying to respond to all that stuff at once? I might crash the Internet ...

[deluca67]

Great thread - I appreciate that the Bills are getting some OT play here - a fun topic in a community far superior to TSW, IMO.

Fair point.

This is kneejerkism at just about its kneejerkiest.

Agreed, as fixed.

I grew up with liberal parents in an urban setting, so I really don't get the whole gun thing - but I can see how this could be true.

This is also fair -- and let's recall that a number of the "glory day" Bills had their own problems with booze, drugs, DW/UI's, and chasing/hitting skirt -- "Saint" Thurman chief among them.

Do yourself a favor and spend some time gently removing people from those pedestals you've built -- put them up there, and they will disappoint you. Isolated incidents of driving home from a party after a few too many, or slapping your loved one in a fit of anger -- those are bad mistakes to be sure, but mistakes just the same. If your favorite players prove themselves over time to be incorrigible goons, that's one thing -- but the whinging about how a guy needs to shipped out of town if he slips up (perhaps even before he arrives in town) is just lame.

Classic.

So true. And what of Babe Ruth? That guy was a fall-down drunk, fat slob womanizer who had no respect for his community or regard for his obligations as a professional athlete --I can't respect any of that -- let's exhume him and drag his ass through the streets of Manhattan.

Slapping a women is far more than a "mistake". That's a character flaw.

 

Also, I don't believe expecting a professional athlete to conduct himself like a human being is putting them on a "pedestal". There is also nothing "lame" about wanting players on the teams you support, in spirit and financially, to be representative of the community. Isn't that why we love blue collar athletes in this town? I've read and heard many Bills fans and sports fans in WNY put down a team like the Bengals because they seemingly love players with character issues. Here are the Bills drafting a player who is more of a fit for the Bengals than the Bills.

 

When I read fans making excuses for athletes I have to wonder if the same compassion is shown while watching the local news. When the news reports a violent incident is the first thought "he should be given a break because he had a bad upbringing"? I have to doubt that. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the first thought is to throw them in jail and keep them off the streets. Wearing a Bills jersey shouldn't be a free pass and being a fan should have to be a compromise.

[shrader]

Just out of curiousity, do you think that people can be rehabilitated or should we just crucify the guy right now since he can never change?

[BetweenThePipes00]

Just out of curiousity, do you think that people can be rehabilitated or should we just crucify the guy right now since he can never change?

Maybe I am just punch-drunk from being up most of the night with the baby but ... I laughed long and hard at this. I know it is a serious subject, but that's just a great post.

[deluca67]

Just out of curiousity, do you think that people can be rehabilitated or should we just crucify the guy right now since he can never change?

Are you comparing being cut from the Bills to a crucification? Of course he can change over time. I just don't want to see him in a Bills jersey during that time. He should have a college education so he can earn a living in the field he has been studying. I hear there is a huge market for hand weaved baskets.

 

I have to ask you a question. Do you feel that players like Pac-Man Jones and Chris Henry belong in the NFL? Would you like to see them as Buffalo Bills? I would guess they also can be "rehabilitated". The Bills did such a fine job "rehabilitating" Anthony Hardgrove so they should have success with these players.

 

If the Miami Dolphins had drafted Hardy many of the same people defending him now would be ripping the Dolphins for the pick. In sports fans give players the home town moral discount. It's why fans in San Fran ignored Bonds growing head and the fans in Houston continue to support Clemens.

 

To answer a couple of other points.

 

I wouldn't blame the Sabres at all if a top player did what Hardy did to a young women and was cut.

 

and

 

Sports has always been filled with scumbags. We now get to hear about every incident in detail thanks to modern media. I have to say if I were 10 years old in this era of sports I would have little to no interest. The fact that some parent is going to buy their young son a Hardy jersey is sick, IMO.

[tom webster]

Are you comparing being cut from the Bills to a crucification? Of course he can change over time. I just don't want to see him in a Bills jersey during that time. He should have a college education so he can earn a living in the field he has been studying. I hear there is a huge market for hand weaved baskets.

 

I have to ask you a question. Do you feel that players like Pac-Man Jones and Chris Henry belong in the NFL? Would you like to see them as Buffalo Bills? I would guess they also can be "rehabilitated". The Bills did such a fine job "rehabilitating" Anthony Hardgrove so they should have success with these players.

 

If the Miami Dolphins had drafted Hardy many of the same people defending him now would be ripping the Dolphins for the pick. In sports fans give players the home town moral discount. It's why fans in San Fran ignored Bonds growing head and the fans in Houston continue to support Clemens.

 

To answer a couple of other points.

 

I wouldn't blame the Sabres at all if a top player did what Hardy did to a young women and was cut. and

 

Sports has always been filled with scumbags. We now get to hear about every incident in detail thanks to modern media. I have to say if I were 10 years old in this era of sports I would have little to no interest. The fact that some parent is going to buy their young son a Hardy jersey is sick, IMO.

 

Just to be clear, do you think they should have relinquished their rights to Tallinder?