Sabres injuries starting to appear

[Claude Balls]

First we hear Vanek played with an injured something (I forget what) towards the end of the season. Now Gaustad has a sports hernia, although I haven't heard when this occurred, but I know as it hampers players, they play through them often. And of course, there's Kaleta who went down in the final game of the year for the Amerks. I haven't heard any followup to his injury either.

 

Could these guys have been hurting the team by trying to play through injuries near the end of the year? I give them credit for trying, but what good would they have been if the Sabres did make the playoffs. That's what I am hoping for anyways. Maybe these guys were just to beat up to gut it out anymore. This is my first positive hope for heading into next season, healthy players. Of course, weren't they all healthy at the beginning of this season when they stumbled out of the gate?

 

Anyways, here's to health :beer:

[apuszczalowski]

I think Vanek was the only one hurt during the season (or so he said) but he is playing well for Austria right now, so I don't look at it as an excuse.

 

Almost every team has players playing through injuries at this time of the year, so I don't see it as any kind of excuse. They just did not have a team that could make the playoffs. They have to many mid level talent and no top end talent, just guys with potential to be top level talent.

[Kristian]

I have no doubt most of our guys were a little more banged up than most other teams players, given the fact that we seem to absorb a lot of hits, but I don't think we saw anyone play through injuries as such.

 

Vanek says he was injured, yet it doesn't keep him from playing at the B-worlds. I'm thinking this may have been a poor translation, or perhaps Vanek choosing the wrong words to describe his condition, cause I feel pretty certain the Sabres wouldn't have let their 10.000.000 dollar guy go play at some completely insignificant tournament, had his health been the slightest in question.

[Done]

At what point does this medical and training staff get questioned?

 

This is now 4 sports hernias in 4 years....and each of the guys kept playing with it while being misdiagnosed at first...(Dumont, Briere, Kalinin, Gaustad).

 

Are they doing something stupid in their strength training program?

[Kristian]

Don't forget Connolly's headaches being misdiagnosed as well.

[Chief Enabler]

I have no doubt most of our guys were a little more banged up than most other teams players, given the fact that we seem to absorb a lot of hits, but I don't think we saw anyone play through injuries as such.

 

Vanek says he was injured, yet it doesn't keep him from playing at the B-worlds.

Exactly, my theory has always been that the Sabres were always on the receiving ends of hits; and it would be easy for me to say that poor conditioning led to the leg injuries (hamstrings, whatever-Max,Spacek,Vanek) I partly feel that it is more of a mindset on how your game is approached. Or perhaps intimidated by Lindy.

 

You could look at Soupy, he never hit anyone, didnt take hits and plays 82 games. Goose did play 82 as well.

[Claude Balls]

Don't forget Connolly's headaches being misdiagnosed as well.

Also, Peter's was misdiagnosed as a good fighter. Oh wait, wrong staff. :death:

[Bmwolf21]

At what point does this medical and training staff get questioned?

 

This is now 4 sports hernias in 4 years....and each of the guys kept playing with it while being misdiagnosed at first...(Dumont, Briere, Kalinin, Gaustad).

 

Are they doing something stupid in their strength training program?

I agree about the staff needing to be questioned about these misdiagnoses, but the players have to take some responsibility as well, given the track record of misdiagnoses and players trying to play through the pain.

 

Kalinin played how long with a sports hernia, even though he could barely skate and push off with one leg until needing surgery in the offseason, Briere and Dumont needed surgery in-season, now Goose? They need to look at the sports staff and need to make sure the players aren't making things worse by playing through the pain or are hurting the team because they can't skate as well...

[X. Benedict]

At what point does this medical and training staff get questioned?

 

This is now 4 sports hernias in 4 years....and each of the guys kept playing with it while being misdiagnosed at first...(Dumont, Briere, Kalinin, Gaustad).

 

Are they doing something stupid in their strength training program?

 

As far as I know I don't think a Sports Hernia is a strength training issue.

[outlaw16511]

As far as I know I don't think a Sports Hernia is a strength training issue.

 

It sure can be a strength training issue. If you are over-lifting you could develop a hernia in the area sports hernias occur. It's hard to say what's causing them but they seem to be on the rise in professional sports. I think when Briere got his it was from doing that Strongest Man type routine regularly. The guy was lift boulders and monster truck tires which can't be good for someone as small as he is.

[Fronz1103]

Lackluster play results from tired athletes. FATIQUE, thats all it was, and therefore it is a conditioning issue, did they condition to much, resulting on tired players on the ice, or did they condition too little resulting to injured players on the ice. I think its a combination of the both.

IMO, When your team goes to the conference finals two seasons in a row (not factoring into the mix is the loss of leadership) your team is coming into the season as one of the LEAST RESTED teams in the league.

To prove this point, Ottawa... the past two seasons they had relatively long post-seasons leaving them with realatively short off seasons, which is why I believe they plummeted like they did.

Not one of us on this board has an idea as to how a human body reacts if it were to be on the Ice as much as an NHL'er... I couldn't even imagine.

I'll tell ya one thing though, Hank Tallinder....for two seasons he was the Sabres Defensive rock. This season he tailed off because of fatique. Why isnt he playing in the World's Championchips? Fatique. I Think that word is the biggest reason (even more so the off season mgmt blunders) as to why the Sabres missed to play-offs.

[X. Benedict]

It sure can be a strength training issue. If you are over-lifting you could develop a hernia in the area sports hernias occur. It's hard to say what's causing them but they seem to be on the rise in professional sports. I think when Briere got his it was from doing that Strongest Man type routine regularly. The guy was lift boulders and monster truck tires which can't be good for someone as small as he is.

 

Nice point. I was thinking primarily in terms of strength training for prevention. I would imagine in years past most were just treated as groin problems.

 

interesting piece on it from last year:

 

http://www.canada.com/topics/sports/story....k=36010&p=1

[wonderbread]

Lackluster play results from tired athletes. FATIQUE, thats all it was, and therefore it is a conditioning issue, did they condition to much, resulting on tired players on the ice, or did they condition too little resulting to injured players on the ice. I think its a combination of the both.

IMO, When your team goes to the conference finals two seasons in a row (not factoring into the mix is the loss of leadership) your team is coming into the season as one of the LEAST RESTED teams in the league.

To prove this point, Ottawa... the past two seasons they had relatively long post-seasons leaving them with realatively short off seasons, which is why I believe they plummeted like they did.

Not one of us on this board has an idea as to how a human body reacts if it were to be on the Ice as much as an NHL'er... I couldn't even imagine.

I'll tell ya one thing though, Hank Tallinder....for two seasons he was the Sabres Defensive rock. This season he tailed off because of fatique. Why isnt he playing in the World's Championchips? Fatique. I Think that word is the biggest reason (even more so the off season mgmt blunders) as to why the Sabres missed to play-offs.

 

 

I hate when that happens! :ph34r:

[outlaw16511]

That's a great article! Overuse and core training has to have something to do with it. With my Briere example basically that's what he was trying to do with that workout he used to use. He was trying to strengthen the core but went overboard with it IMO. Another thing that I would like to see the trainers and exercise scientists look at is, the skates players use themselves. It should be looked into that if the way skates are made now changes the angle of attack they dig into the ice at and if that puts more stress on the groin and abdominal area than skates of the past.

[Claude Balls]

That's a great article! Overuse and core training has to have something to do with it. With my Briere example basically that's what he was trying to do with that workout he used to use. He was trying to strengthen the core but went overboard with it IMO. Another thing that I would like to see the trainers and exercise scientists look at is, the skates players use themselves. It should be looked into that if the way skates are made now changes the angle of attack they dig into the ice at and if that puts more stress on the groin and abdominal area than skates of the past.

I think it has something to do more along the lines of the guys having to stop, cut back and change directions so fast and so often after all the turnovers.

[Bmwolf21]

I think it has something to do more along the lines of the guys having to stop, cut back and change directions so fast and so often after all the turnovers.

That explains Max's torn-up groin this year...surprised it hasn't happened sooner... :unsure:

[Kristian]

That explains Max's torn-up groin this year...surprised it hasn't happened sooner... :unsure:

 

Probably because he expects others to backcheck for him, hence he doesn't need to stop and change directions as much.

 

Truth be told, very few work harder than Max, it's just that his on-ice awareness leaves quite a bit to be desired.

[Team Strike Force]

Don't forget Connolly's headaches being misdiagnosed as well.

 

Didn't we all just think that he was getting menstrual migraines?

[deluca67]

I think Vanek was the only one hurt during the season (or so he said) but he is playing well for Austria right now, so I don't look at it as an excuse.

 

Almost every team has players playing through injuries at this time of the year, so I don't see it as any kind of excuse. They just did not have a team that could make the playoffs. They have to many mid level talent and no top end talent, just guys with potential to be top level talent.

Roy and Pominville hit the 80 point mark this season. I believe the former captains had only accomplished that feat once. Vanek has played three seasons and has hit for 25, 43 ( a feat neither former captain has done) and 36 goals. That seems like "top end talent". It's not that the Sabres don't have "top end talent" it's that some fans are too busy crying about past players they refuse to recognize the talent the Sabres do have.

[tom webster]

Roy and Pominville hit the 80 point mark this season. I believe the former captains had only accomplished that feat once. Vanek has played three seasons and has hit for 25, 43 ( a feat neither former captain has done) and 36 goals. That seems like "top end talent". It's not that the Sabres don't have "top end talent" it's that some fans are too busy crying about past players they refuse to recognize the talent the Sabres do have.

 

First of all, I believe that Derek, Jason and Thomas are pushing elite level, if not already there.

Second, a fan as astute as you knows that it is not all about the numbers, yet you insist on using the numbers when it suits your case.

 

The players above didn't have to be mutually exclusive. Even the team knows they could have done things differently.

Are there posters on this board with unreal expectations of what might have been? Yes

Are there posters on this board who go to the other extreme and feel DB and CD were worthless? Yes

My biggest problem is with those posters who know better but feel the need to take one of the two positions above rather then admit that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and as I said before, its time to move on and give them the benefit of the doubt. The answer will be at hand soon enough.

[Claude Balls]

First of all, I believe that Derek, Jason and Thomas are pushing elite level, if not already there.

Second, a fan as astute as you knows that it is not all about the numbers, yet you insist on using the numbers when it suits your case.

 

The players above didn't have to be mutually exclusive. Even the team knows they could have done things differently.

Are there posters on this board with unreal expectations of what might have been? Yes

Are there posters on this board who go to the other extreme and feel DB and CD were worthless? Yes

My biggest problem is with those posters who know better but feel the need to take one of the two positions above rather then admit that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and as I said before, its time to move on and give them the benefit of the doubt. The answer will be at hand soon enough.

There are certain players that make other players around them much better. DB and CD are two great examples. Roy, Pommers and Vanek are still very young and that is the part of their game that could use some polishing. I think Pommers is slighty ahead of the other two right now. Alot of these young guys think they need to do the work themselves to be successful. Once they start making each other successful, look out. I don't mean passing off the puck with an open net to give another guy a hat trick either. Max on the other hand, he's a little older and I don't think he will ever figure that part of the game out. But there is plenty of potential on this team within in the core and I think it's just a matter of time.

[carpandean]

My biggest problem is with those posters who know better but feel the need to take one of the two positions above rather then admit that the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and as I said before, its time to move on and give them the benefit of the doubt. The answer will be at hand soon enough.

Couldn't agree more.

I felt management made the right choice in trying to only sign Chris while letting Danny go ... but they made some mistakes in negotiating that deal.

I believe that management was right to think that we had some young players who could step up to produce at higher levels ... but after they lost Drury, they relied too much on these players too soon (which was made worse by losing Teppo.)

I believe that management was right to trade Campbell, and Bernier + a first-round pick were decent compensation for two months of play ... but they were foolish to think that moving Kalinin up with Spacek and bringing in Paetsch would be at all capable of playing NHL-level defense.

and so on ...

 

Mistakes were made, but some "mistakes" were actually the right decisions. Assuming they will screw up this summer is just as bad as assuming that they will make all of the right moves this summer. Lets see what they do and then objectively assess their decisions.

 

Crying about what could have been is pointless, because those decisions can't be undone. I miss Chris and still may buy his jersey at some point, but he is not a Sabre anymore, so I wish him well and root for Derek, Jason, etc..

[apuszczalowski]

Roy and Pominville hit the 80 point mark this season. I believe the former captains had only accomplished that feat once. Vanek has played three seasons and has hit for 25, 43 ( a feat neither former captain has done) and 36 goals. That seems like "top end talent". It's not that the Sabres don't have "top end talent" it's that some fans are too busy crying about past players they refuse to recognize the talent the Sabres do have.

And how many teams would those 3 players be the top players on or be on the top line?

 

Would you talk about Roy, Pomminstein, or Vanek in the same breath as a Heatley, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, St. Louis, Thorton......................

 

This has nothing to do with who they lost, its more about overvaluing the players they have, and if you weren't a Sabres fan, you would probably not mention a Sabres player when discussing the NHLs top 30 players at this point. They have potential to maybe one day be mentioned in that discussion, but right now they are not top level talent when compared to other teams, and would be mid level talent on most playoff teams.

 

Even the guys that they lost this offseason aren't top line players on their new teams

[carpandean]

Would you talk about Roy, Pomminstein, or Vanek in the same breath as a Heatley, Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, Iginla, St. Louis, Thorton......................

They were mentioned in the same breath when the league was listing the top point-getters since the all-star break. With a few games left (and, if anything, those few games helped their stats), Roy/Pominville were tied for #3 behind only Ovechkin and Malkin.

 

Pominville was underestimated because everyone attributed his production last year to Briere. After this season, he should be considered at the same level as the top players on most teams. Roy was a third-line center last year, but this year moved up to a top-line center. On other teams' broadcasts (heard a lot of those while watching games online), they always talked about how he has really stepped up and shown that he is a top-level player (Pominville, too).

 

You listed top-10 players in the league (Ovechkin makes of $9.5 million per year and Crosby will make $8.7 million starting next year), but there are likely 60-90 guys , 2-3 per team, league-wide that are considered their teams' "top players". I bet on that list, they would be in the upper half. At such a young age, that's pretty impressive.

 

 

Even the guys that they lost this offseason aren't top line players on their new teams

Then it's probably good that we didn't pay them $6-7 million per year for 5+ years. :nana:

[apuszczalowski]

They were mentioned in the same breath when the league was listing the top point-getters since the all-star break. With a few games left (and, if anything, those few games helped their stats), Roy/Pominville were tied for #3 behind only Ovechkin and Malkin.

 

Pominville was underestimated because everyone attributed his production last year to Briere. After this season, he should be considered at the same level as the top players on most teams. Roy was a third-line center last year, but this year moved up to a top-line center. On other teams' broadcasts (heard a lot of those while watching games online), they always talked about how he has really stepped up and shown that he is a top-level player (Pominville, too).

 

You listed top-10 players in the league (Ovechkin makes of $9.5 million per year and Crosby will make $8.7 million starting next year), but there are likely 60-90 guys , 2-3 per team, league-wide that are considered their teams' "top players". I bet on that list, they would be in the upper half. At such a young age, that's pretty impressive.

Then it's probably good that we didn't pay them $6-7 million per year for 5+ years. :nana:

I never said that those players weren't the teams top players, what I am saying is that they are not top level talent in comparison to the rest of the league. Go to any of the playoff teams websites right now and ask if they would trade any of their top level talent for those 3 players on the Sabres straight up.