Opinion on sabres management

[Mike Oxhurtz]

We have a mix of people here who are upset with management because we feel they screwed up big time last year with losing Drury & Briere to FA, contract negiotiations, etc... Then there are a group of people that feel management is making the right moves.

 

My question is simply this, if management has another offseason like last year, and say we end up anywhere from 10th in the Eastern conference to just barely making it into the playoffs and getting eliminated in the 1st round, do you think there should be serious changes made to the management team (meaning getting fired). Or would you say management is still working to make the Sabres a strong contender in the future?

 

No bashing, just a simple question if we're in the same position next year that we are in this year.

[shrader]

Personally, I think its a pointless question (or maybe not the right question). They can't have another offseason like last year. The only guys they can lose and get nothing in return for are Kalinen, Numminen, Pratt, Thibault, and Ryan. There's no Drury-Briere in that group. Yes, they can screw up this offseason too, but its not something you'll see immediate results from.

 

Also, I'm going to actually wait until something happens before I even bother judging this offseason. All we know now is that they have identified and want to address some of the issues that the fans think are top priorities. To me, that's a good sign, but lets sit back and wait to see what they do about it.

[apuszczalowski]

Personally, I think its a pointless question (or maybe not the right question). They can't have another offseason like last year. The only guys they can lose and get nothing in return for are Kalinen, Numminen, Pratt, Thibault, and Ryan. There's no Drury-Briere in that group. Yes, they can screw up this offseason too, but its not something you'll see immediate results from.

 

Also, I'm going to actually wait until something happens before I even bother judging this offseason. All we know now is that they have identified and want to address some of the issues that the fans think are top priorities. To me, that's a good sign, but lets sit back and wait to see what they do about it.

didn't they say the same things last year?

 

And you are right, there are no big name FA's that they could lose this offseason, I think its more about if they fail to make the playoffs next year, or barely make it in and are out early

[bob_sauve28]

Personally, I think its a pointless question (or maybe not the right question). They can't have another offseason like last year. The only guys they can lose and get nothing in return for are Kalinen, Numminen, Pratt, Thibault, and Ryan. There's no Drury-Briere in that group. Yes, they can screw up this offseason too, but its not something you'll see immediate results from.

 

Also, I'm going to actually wait until something happens before I even bother judging this offseason. All we know now is that they have identified and want to address some of the issues that the fans think are top priorities. To me, that's a good sign, but lets sit back and wait to see what they do about it.

I think not signing Miller before the season starts would be a disaster. Imagine going through the season with that hanging over the teams head? :ph34r:

[That Aud Smell]

We have a mix of people here who are upset with management because we feel they screwed up big time last year with losing Drury & Briere to FA, contract negiotiations, etc... Then there are a group of people that feel management is making the right moves.

That doesn't sound like a "mix," it sounds like a binary comprising two polarized positions, a la Crossfire or some other cable news screamfest. But, on the other hand, it's true: There are those 'round here who seem to think that Larry Quinn and Tom Golisano are laughing manically whilst tossing piles of hundred dollar bills in the air and screaming that the team's fans are all "SUCKERS!", and there are those (albeit far fewer) who seem closer to thinking that Darcy and Lindy can and should be trusted implicitly to (re-)build a winner and that LQ and TG will not in good conscience stand in the way of that.

 

And therein lies the problem, for me, in responding to this question and, frankly, reading a lot of stuff that gets posted to SS: I take things on a case-by-case basis -- I don't view everything that happens with the team through a prism of "here they go again" or "trust them, wait and see". Some moves are made affirmatively -- and some of those turn out for the good, some turn out for the bad, some are a mixed bag, some you won't know about for a while. Other moves are made passively by another decision maker, and again the same spectrum of outcomes applies. And some moves are made through a blend of having acted affirmatively and having had other people (players, other teams, the league, etc.) take certain actions not within your control, and there again the same spectrum of outcomes applies.

 

That's a whole lot of variables at play -- and a whole lot of resulting ambiguity. I don't think such ambiguity is properly understood by staking out a position on either end of the continuum identified above.

 

Personally, I think its a pointless question (or maybe not the right question).

I'm with Shrader here.

[Knightrider]

Personally, the 07 off season was a result of what happened in the 06 off season. They screwed the pooch WRT Briere, and they should have seen what was coming, especially after the arbitration award. The could have signed Drury (like we are now talking about with Miller) long term at that point. Since he hadn't had his hearing yet, they could have let Briere walk, and signed Dumont.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

This offseason, we won't have to worry about losing key free agents. Another concern I have, is that we need help on defense and a veteran to provide leadership. I worry that management will only bring in more mediocre talent (probably someone we haven't heard anything about), and expect that to fix the problems. If that happens, then I think we'll be in the same boat again next year. I'm not saying we have to get the most expensive player(s) out there, just get the player(s) that will help us succeed. Last year, when we failed to sign Drury & Briere, we didn't bring in anybody to fill the void they left. Granted, we had all the offensive firepower we needed this year, but we really needed help on defense and we didn't get it. I just hope management makes the right moves, including re-signing Miller before the season starts.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

What's really frustrating to me, is that from the previous 2 seasons (05-06, 06-07), out of all the sabres that left to go to other teams, all of them except for McKee made the playoffs with the teams they're on now.

[X. Benedict]

I don't expect to add an offseason veteran leader.

I don't think that person is quite out there. (looking at UFA's)

 

I would be looking to improve at LW and adding a D man.

[carpandean]

I don't expect to add an offseason veteran leader.

I don't think that person is quite out there. (looking at UFA's)

 

I would be looking to improve at LW and adding a D man.

Mattias Norstrom?

Veteran (36 years old, 800+ NHL games over 10+ full seasons), leader (Captain of the LA Kings for 6 seasons), defenseman (the stay-at-home kind). Trifecta!

 

He's big (6' 2", 222 lbs), physical and knows what to do in his own end. Would cost a pretty penny, but might be worth it. Only down side is that he would be yet another left-handed defenseman (Spacek, Tallinder, Lydman, Sekera, Weber, Paetsch and Pratt all shoot left).

[That Aud Smell]

Mattias Norstrom?

Veteran (36 years old, 800+ NHL games over 10+ full seasons), leader (Captain of the LA Kings for 6 seasons), defenseman (the stay-at-home kind). Trifecta!

 

He's big (6' 2", 222 lbs), physical and knows what to do in his own end. Would cost a pretty penny, but might be worth it. Only down side is that he would be yet another left-handed defenseman (Spacek, Tallinder, Lydman, Sekera, Weber, Paetsch and Pratt all shoot left).

intriguing.

[GoatheadInCT]

Jason Pominville MUST, MUST, MUST be given a multi-year deal, and we MUST get a defenseman through free

agency or a trade. Without both of those things happening, our offseason will be a failure, and it will be time

to look elsewhere IMO.

[shrader]

Jason Pominville MUST, MUST, MUST be given a multi-year deal, and we MUST get a defenseman through free

agency or a trade. Without both of those things happening, our offseason will be a failure, and it will be time

to look elsewhere IMO.

 

Miller should be a much higher priority than Pominville. Yes his value will probably go up again after this season, but they still control Pominville's rights beyond next season. Now may be the best time to work with him, but things can be done to keep his situation under control far longer than they can with Miller. Whether or not people think Miller is the answer, I think most will agree with a huge hole would be left behind if he were to leave.

[GoatheadInCT]

Miller should be a much higher priority than Pominville. Yes his value will probably go up again after this season, but they still control Pominville's rights beyond next season. Now may be the best time to work with him, but things can be done to keep his situation under control far longer than they can with Miller. Whether or not people think Miller is the answer, I think most will agree with a huge hole would be left behind if he were to leave.

 

If we are not committed to having proper solid defensemen in front of Miller, then we should not waste the money on him, for it would

be useless. I do not think he can be the man with an average or below D like Dominik was- so, that is why I said the Poms deal is

the most important!

[Chief Enabler]

Miller should be a much higher priority than Pominville. Yes his value will probably go up again after this season, but they still control Pominville's rights beyond next season. Now may be the best time to work with him, but things can be done to keep his situation under control far longer than they can with Miller. Whether or not people think Miller is the answer, I think most will agree with a huge hole would be left behind if he were to leave.

We have gotten by with bigger holes, but I believe Miller will be taken care of. I do hope that he is only scheduled for 65-75 starts in the reg. season.

[nfreeman]

I think that while different from last offseason, this offseason presents the same possibilities for achievement and failure that last year did. Bottom line is that Sauve is right -- if Miller (and, IMHO, Pommer) are not both re-signed before next season starts (or at the very latest by November 1), the offseason will be fairly described as another debacle. It will be disappointing if no new additions are brought in to strengthen defense and leadership, but starting off another season with free agency approaching for 2 more core players would be disastrous.

 

Having said that, the optimist in me thinks the Sabres learned a hard lesson last summer (after being caught flatfooted by the leaguewide explosion in salaries and butchering their negotiations with Drury, Briere and Campbell) and are going to right the ship this offseason.

[GoatheadInCT]

I think that while different from last offseason, this offseason presents the same possibilities for achievement and failure that last year did. Bottom line is that Sauve is right -- if Miller (and, IMHO, Pommer) are not both re-signed before next season starts (or at the very latest by November 1), the offseason will be fairly described as another debacle. It will be disappointing if no new additions are brought in to strengthen defense and leadership, but starting off another season with free agency approaching for 2 more core players would be disastrous.

 

Having said that, the optimist in me thinks the Sabres learned a hard lesson last summer (after being caught flatfooted by the leaguewide explosion in salaries and butchering their negotiations with Drury, Briere and Campbell) and are going to right the ship this offseason.

 

You had better be right, or Lindy might just be the next big free agent loss we suffer down the road, and THAT would be catastrophic, IMO.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

Having said that, the optimist in me thinks the Sabres learned a hard lesson last summer (after being caught flatfooted by the leaguewide explosion in salaries and butchering their negotiations with Drury, Briere and Campbell) and are going to right the ship this offseason.

 

I hope you're right.

[stenbaro]

My opinion is they should have this offseason and next season to at least make the final 8...If not then hit the road jack, dont let the door where the good lord split ya etc....A liitle too harsh yes considering only 8 teams make it that far but we had a team that went there 2 times in arow..There blunders in handling contracts led them to where they are now.They earned the right to fix it but I wouldnt give em any more rope than 1 yr..There arent gonna be any freeagent pickups that are going to push this team up there you wouldnt think, however I wouldnt be shocked to see a couple of trades like the one that brought us Drury and Grier and Briere..Vet for vet type trades...I wouldnt be shocked to Tallinder be one of them either..

[That Aud Smell]

Miller will be taken care of. I do hope that he is only scheduled for 65-75 starts in the reg. season.

 

i think the lower end of that range should be his absolute upper limit. i'd be more comfortable with targeting 60-65.

[Taro T]

That doesn't sound like a "mix," it sounds like a binary comprising two polarized positions, a la Crossfire or some other cable news screamfest. But, on the other hand, it's true: There are those 'round here who seem to think that Larry Quinn and Tom Golisano are laughing manically whilst tossing piles of hundred dollar bills in the air and screaming that the team's fans are all "SUCKERS!", and there are those (albeit far fewer) who seem closer to thinking that Darcy and Lindy can and should be trusted implicitly to (re-)build a winner and that LQ and TG will not in good conscience stand in the way of that.

 

And therein lies the problem, for me, in responding to this question and, frankly, reading a lot of stuff that gets posted to SS: I take things on a case-by-case basis -- I don't view everything that happens with the team through a prism of "here they go again" or "trust them, wait and see". Some moves are made affirmatively -- and some of those turn out for the good, some turn out for the bad, some are a mixed bag, some you won't know about for a while. Other moves are made passively by another decision maker, and again the same spectrum of outcomes applies. And some moves are made through a blend of having acted affirmatively and having had other people (players, other teams, the league, etc.) take certain actions not within your control, and there again the same spectrum of outcomes applies.

 

That's a whole lot of variables at play -- and a whole lot of resulting ambiguity. I don't think such ambiguity is properly understood by staking out a position on either end of the continuum identified above.

I'm with Shrader here.

Well stated.

 

That said, this off-season will provide an excellent window to see where management's focus and priorities lie. While this team could be viewed by the glass half empty crowd as only being a player or 2 away from a lottery pick, it also can be about 2-3 players away from being a legit contender (and one with the benefit of sneaking up on people due to this year's 10th place finish).

 

I never got a chance to go back and listen to the post-season press conference, but the snippets discussed here and elsewhere give me the impression that management has a determination of what the team was lacking this year and that they plan to upgrade those weak spots. How well they address those weak spots this off-season can set the tone for how competitive this team is for at least until this CBA expires.

 

Mattias Norstrom?

Veteran (36 years old, 800+ NHL games over 10+ full seasons), leader (Captain of the LA Kings for 6 seasons), defenseman (the stay-at-home kind). Trifecta!

 

He's big (6' 2", 222 lbs), physical and knows what to do in his own end. Would cost a pretty penny, but might be worth it. Only down side is that he would be yet another left-handed defenseman (Spacek, Tallinder, Lydman, Sekera, Weber, Paetsch and Pratt all shoot left).

He would be an excellent pickup who could probably be brought in for the kind of money they planned on giving to Campbell. Not sure if the Sabres would be willing to give him as long a deal as he'd want. Considering he always plays 70+ games (when his face isn't broken, at least), they could probably risk going a little longer on a deal than they would your typical 36 year old.

 

Bring him in and bring Teppo back and suddenly Sekera and Weber have some serious leadership to follow. You can then consider using one of your "top pair" D in a package with a forward & picks/prospect to get a legit #2 centerman. (Would prefer to get a legit #2 centerman using forwards / prospects, but you have to give something to get something typically.) Pick up a veteran winger for spot duty / leadership in the room and a goalie that can give you 20 games playing literally every 4th (i.e., without getting into a rhythm) and I'd be very happy with this roster.

[tom webster]

Well stated.

 

That said, this off-season will provide an excellent window to see where management's focus and priorities lie. While this team could be viewed by the glass half empty crowd as only being a player or 2 away from a lottery pick, it also can be about 2-3 players away from being a legit contender (and one with the benefit of sneaking up on people due to this year's 10th place finish).

 

I never got a chance to go back and listen to the post-season press conference, but the snippets discussed here and elsewhere give me the impression that management has a determination of what the team was lacking this year and that they plan to upgrade those weak spots. How well they address those weak spots this off-season can set the tone for how competitive this team is for at least until this CBA expires.

He would be an excellent pickup who could probably be brought in for the kind of money they planned on giving to Campbell. Not sure if the Sabres would be willing to give him as long a deal as he'd want. Considering he always plays 70+ games (when his face isn't broken, at least), they could probably risk going a little longer on a deal than they would your typical 36 year old.

 

Bring him in and bring Teppo back and suddenly Sekera and Weber have some serious leadership to follow. You can then consider using one of your "top pair" D in a package with a forward & picks/prospect to get a legit #2 centerman. (Would prefer to get a legit #2 centerman using forwards / prospects, but you have to give something to get something typically.) Pick up a veteran winger for spot duty / leadership in the room and a goalie that can give you 20 games playing literally every 4th (i.e., without getting into a rhythm) and I'd be very happy with this roster.

 

Like I said before, I have been as critical as anyone with regard to this management group, but they do deserve the benefit of the doubt. I am going to give them this off season to surprise me. I would be alright with the changes you outlined above, but I would be surprised to see them add a legit #2 center. I agree that they need one, just don't see them doing it.

 

On a side note, was in the sabre store today at the arena and the sale rack with jerseys consisted of three quarter Max, one quarter Miller and a lone Connolly jersey. When I asked a clerk if I should read anything into that, I got a terse no. Just saying....

[Bmwolf21]

We have gotten by with bigger holes, but I believe Miller will be taken care of. I do hope that he is only scheduled for 65-75 starts in the reg. season.

i think the lower end of that range should be his absolute upper limit. i'd be more comfortable with targeting 60-65.

Exactly - 60-65 is perfect, especially given how he faded down the home stretch. I think a solid backup plus a renewed commitment to defense and a pissed-off Miller could result in Ryan putting together a very good year.

 

Of course it won't matter who the goalie is if the defense doesn't improve, either by play, by personnel or by scheme.

[Taro T]

Like I said before, I have been as critical as anyone with regard to this management group, but they do deserve the benefit of the doubt. I am going to give them this off season to surprise me. I would be alright with the changes you outlined above, but I would be surprised to see them add a legit #2 center. I agree that they need one, just don't see them doing it.

 

On a side note, was in the sabre store today at the arena and the sale rack with jerseys consisted of three quarter Max, one quarter Miller and a lone Connolly jersey. When I asked a clerk if I should read anything into that, I got a terse no. Just saying....

Whether they need a #2 and whether they try to get one depend in large part on whether Timmy can actually get healthy with a regular off-season (once he's cleared for working out after the season ending surgery) or if he has become the forward version of Tallinder.

 

I'm not as convinced as the rest of the people here that Timmy simply will not play more than 40-50 games in a given year. Prior to his high-sticking suspension he had the 3rd or 4th longest active games played streak in the league and had only missed one game in his rookie year.

 

After he returned from the 1st concussion, he was going very well until the cheap hit from Kasparaitus. Based on everything that was said about the 2nd "concussion" actually being a mis-diagnosed neck injury and the way Timmy tried to "rush" back once he was cleared to exercise, I'm not convinced that he is simply injury-prone.

 

If he can work himself back into post-lockout condition, or something comparable, I'd be comfortable with expecting him to play 70+ games. I'd hope the Sabres are following his condition/conditioning extremely closely and are planning accordingly.

 

I also hope they factor into any evaluation of how injury-prone he is, the change in his style of play pre and post-lockout. He was much more agressive with the puck post-lockout and put himself into situations where he could get hit far more often than he did pre-lockout. Pre-lockout, I think he considered patenting the carry the puck over the blueline, circle back (ala Gretzky) and then give the puck to the backchecking forward in an aborted pass atempt to the D-man now at the blueline (very un-Gretzky-like). If it is believed the injuries are more due to the style of play and his size, they should absolutely look for another option. If it is believed the injuries are more due to a lack of conditioning due to the nature of previous injuries, they may expect to get away with him as #2.

 

That said, regardless of whether he is pencilled in as the #2 centerman or #4 centerman with primary ice time on special teams, I want to see another #2 quality center on the roster. You can never have too much depth in the middle. Darcy is on record as stating the focus is on goaltending, D, and then center. This off-season we get to see if that is in fact the case as all 3 could have stood improvement last year. (Although, in fairness, the roster they expected to have on June 30 had significant upgrades in 2 of those 3 spots, and if those spots are upgraded and the team isn't clawing for a playoff spot maybe T-bo is given more leeway and gets enough ice time to not turn into the disaster he became and all 3 were thus upgraded over what we actually saw.)

[outlaw16511]

If we end up where we did this season, next season then we need to call for Quinn to resign from the team. I think he's the biggest reason this team screwed things up in the 06 and 07 off-seasons. It's pretty crucial this season to get Pomminstein and Miller signed. I'd also start looking into getting Paille signed to a 4-5 year deal as well. I think Paille is going to keep getting better and better. It's also time to add about 2 D-men. One to fill the spot that letting Kalinin go will fill and another D-man to fill Teppo's old spot. I'd like to see guys that can be mixed and matched with Tallinder and Lydman if they take a dump playing together. IMO, this year is a very crucial year to the future success of the team for the next 4-5 years. It may even be more important than last off-season. If things get screwed up or not dealt with this season then I don't feel good about having a team that can make any serious playoff runs.