Butler leaving DU for NHL/Sabres

[inkman]

The interseting thing is that they inked Butler first, and while the least heralded, he may be the best NHL prospect of the three.

Probably has the least amount of leverage out of the three.

[tom webster]

Probably has the least amount of leverage out of the three.

 

 

Funny how that works sometimes. Darcy, mentioned something in one of the press conferences/ interview that the players lost something by waiting till next August as well, but I'm not sure what. Maybe Taro can enlighten us.

[stenbaro]

No way would he accept a one year deal. This is most likey going to be the biggest payday of his career. If the Sabres try to go short term or low money, he will walk.

I dont mean just extend his current deal..Give him a raise make it 5 mill per yr for the next 2 yrs..Throw him a bone this yr and give him security but before you go and give him 6-8 mill a yr for the next 5 make sure he is the one...

 

And as far as big paydays go I am never one to believe that the next contract is going to be the biggest..With salaries goin up he will get 2 more big ones if he is as good as everyone says he is.

[Bmwolf21]

I dont mean just extend his current deal..Give him a raise make it 5 mill per yr for the next 2 yrs..Throw him a bone this yr and give him security but before you go and give him 6-8 mill a yr for the next 5 make sure he is the one...

 

And as far as big paydays go I am never one to believe that the next contract is going to be the biggest..With salaries goin up he will get 2 more big ones if he is as good as everyone says he is.

Can't do that. CBA doesn't allow you to renegotiate existing deals. Any deal Miller (or any UFA after the 08-09 season) would have to be an entirely new deal, starting in the 09-10 season.

[stenbaro]

Can't do that. CBA doesn't allow you to renegotiate existing deals. Any deal Miller (or any UFA after the 08-09 season) would have to be an entirely new deal, starting in the 09-10 season.

Ahhh..Then let him play it out...

[Bmwolf21]

Ahhh..Then let him play it out...

And then they're right back to potentially losing him on the FA market with no NHL-ready alternative ready to go. They have to extend him or they will need to a) sign a FA at possibly similar money, not knowing how the goalie FA market will be b) trade for someone else, but that will cost us young players/prospects and/or picks or c) put all their eggs in Enroth's basket and pray that he is the real deal.

[stenbaro]

And then they're right back to potentially losing him on the FA market with no NHL-ready alternative ready to go. They have to extend him or they will need to a) sign a FA at possibly similar money, not knowing how the goalie FA market will be b) trade for someone else, but that will cost us young players/prospects and/or picks or c) put all their eggs in Enroth's basket and pray that he is the real deal.

I thought they couldnt extend him? Give him 7 mill for tjhe one yr to make up for the money they cant add to next yr..There are ways to be creativ..But in no way do I sign Ryan Miller to a 5 or 6 yr contract until I know for sure he is gonna be the man..And from last yr no way do I give it to him..

[Bmwolf21]

I thought they couldnt extend him? Give him 7 mill for tjhe one yr to make up for the money they cant add to next yr..There are ways to be creativ..But in no way do I sign Ryan Miller to a 5 or 6 yr contract until I know for sure he is gonna be the man..And from last yr no way do I give it to him..

I really have no idea what you're talking about with "give him $7M for the one year to make up for what they can't add to next year."

 

Our options are going to be re-sign him long-term this offseason, or wait and run the risk of him leaving or his value going way up.

[stenbaro]

I really have no idea what you're talking about with "give him $7M for the one year to make up for what they can't add to next year."

 

Our options are going to be re-sign him long-term this offseason, or wait and run the risk of him leaving or his value going way up.

Well if we are not allowed to renegotiate his contract for the upcoming season to make it a 2 yr deal instead of a one year deal then sign him to a 1 yr deal for 2009-2010 that would equal the 2 yrs at ten million....I want to see him get better bfore we pay him an average of 7 mill a yr for 5 yr..If he is as good as he is gonna be now then its time to find another goalie if he is gonna want 6-8 mill longterm...

[Done]

I really have no idea what you're talking about with "give him $7M for the one year to make up for what they can't add to next year."

 

Our options are going to be re-sign him long-term this offseason, or wait and run the risk of him leaving or his value going way up.

 

For those who say Miller wants to play in Detroit....you might be on to something. Check out this little beauty! For those interested, East Lansing to Detroit is pretty much like Amherst to Rochester.

 

Miller - 3 rumors confirmed in 1 article

[Bmwolf21]

Well if we are not allowed to renegotiate his contract for the upcoming season to make it a 2 yr deal instead of a one year deal then sign him to a 1 yr deal for 2009-2010 that would equal the 2 yrs at ten million....I want to see him get better bfore we pay him an average of 7 mill a yr for 5 yr..If he is as good as he is gonna be now then its time to find another goalie if he is gonna want 6-8 mill longterm...

He's not going to sign a 1-year deal. It's just not going to happen. All he has to do is make it through next season and chances are very good he'll get a $35-40M deal from someone. I'm not going to get into an argument with you about Miller and his play. I get it - you like Miller about as much as I like Max. But someone will look at his resume - wins, playoff record, etc. - and overpay him.

 

But from a contract standpoint and the team's goaltending situation - it's probably going to be Miller signing a long-term deal. I'm not saying I want to see him signed to a 5-7 year deal. Personally I'd rather see him signed to a 3-4 year deal - that gives him some financial security, takes him to age 32, and gives us time to groom Enroth or another young goalie to challenge him for the starter's position. But in terms of contract likelihood - he's most likely to get 5-6 years, a lot less likely to get 3-4, and almost no chance he'll sign for one.

[stenbaro]

He's not going to sign a 1-year deal. It's just not going to happen. All he has to do is make it through next season and chances are very good he'll get a $35-40M deal from someone. I'm not going to get into an argument with you about Miller and his play. I get it - you like Miller about as much as I like Max. But someone will look at his resume - wins, playoff record, etc. - and overpay him.

 

But from a contract standpoint and the team's goaltending situation - it's probably going to be Miller signing a long-term deal. I'm not saying I want to see him signed to a 5-7 year deal. Personally I'd rather see him signed to a 3-4 year deal - that gives him some financial security, takes him to age 32, and gives us time to groom Enroth or another young goalie to challenge him for the starter's position. But in terms of contract likelihood - he's most likely to get 5-6 years, a lot less likely to get 3-4, and almost no chance he'll sign for one.

I could live with a 3 yr deal as long as it includes this upcoming year..BUt anymore than that makes me leery..He plays the most important position on the team and if your gonna make a big money commitment make sure he is the one..If he plays like last year he isnt worth it..He needs to improve.If he improves he would be worht it but based on what I have seen since he has been here its all talk...

[Bmwolf21]

I could live with a 3 yr deal as long as it includes this upcoming year..BUt anymore than that makes me leery..He plays the most important position on the team and if your gonna make a big money commitment make sure he is the one..If he plays like last year he isnt worth it..He needs to improve.If he improves he would be worht it but based on what I have seen since he has been here its all talk...

Again, I'm not going to get into Miller's play (or the ridiculous comments about all he does is run his mouth) with you. He can improve, absolutely. But you don't throw away a goalie who has accomplished what he has in his short career based on an off year when pretty much the whole team - goalie and defense included - had an off year.

 

Either way, you should probably prepare yourself for the fact that it's probably going to be a long-term deal.

[stenbaro]

Again, I'm not going to get into Miller's play (or the ridiculous comments about all he does is run his mouth) with you. He can improve, absolutely. But you don't throw away a goalie who has accomplished what he has in his short career based on an off year when pretty much the whole team - goalie and defense included - had an off year.

 

Either way, you should probably prepare yourself for the fact that it's probably going to be a long-term deal.

I havent brought it up here..I just said I would be real sure he is the one before you make a commitment like he is going to want.. I would also venture to say he was a recipient of the fine offense we had for 3 yrs more so than they relied on him to get us to the top ala Hasek....

[Bmwolf21]

I havent brought it up here..I just said I would be real sure he is the one before you make a commitment like he is going to want.. I would also venture to say he was a recipient of the fine offense we had for 3 yrs more so than they relied on him to get us to the top ala Hasek....

And while I would agree that while he has been a beneficiary of that offense (just like Vanek and the defense were) Ryan wasn't just some lucky passenger along for the ride - not when he has totaled 106 wins over the last 2 1/2 years, or when he set the franchise record for wins last year, or when he became the first goalie to win 30+ games in three consecutive seasons since Dom did it.

 

The offense relied on him to keep them in games until they got going. Outside of Hasek it's generally not an either/or thing, and it certainly isn't here. He's not elite yet (not many reasonable fans would say he is) but he's also not some loudmouthed, unfocused scrub who gives up two-three soft goals a game and who is lucky to have a high-scoring offense to bail him out.

[Taro T]

Funny how that works sometimes. Darcy, mentioned something in one of the press conferences/ interview that the players lost something by waiting till next August as well, but I'm not sure what. Maybe Taro can enlighten us.

Without having heard / read Darcy's quote, my assumption is that he's probably referring to the length of an entry level contract being determined by how old the player is. Players 21 and younger get 3 year deals, players 22-23 get 2 year deals, and 24 year olds get 1 year deals.

 

Since all NHL contracts are guaranteed (although entry level contracts have to be 2 way deals), he's probably stating that the player will be leaving guaranteed money on the table by staying in school an extra year. (Not to mention the possibility that the player can suffer a career ending injury in college and then never sign an NHL deal.)

 

And with caps on what an entry level player can make, there isn't a lot of room for a player to squeeze extra money out of the team that drafted them. I would guess that a player like Gerbe will get offered close to the rookie max this off-season, so there isn't much room for him to improve on an offer by winning the Hobey Baker next year.

 

The Sabres have his and Kennedy's rights until August 15, 2009 unless they leave school early, in which case the Sabres have their rights until June 1, 2009.

[bob_sauve28]

Without having heard / read Darcy's quote, my assumption is that he's probably referring to the length of an entry level contract being determined by how old the player is. Players 21 and younger get 3 year deals, players 22-23 get 2 year deals, and 24 year olds get 1 year deals.

 

Since all NHL contracts are guaranteed (although entry level contracts have to be 2 way deals), he's probably stating that the player will be leaving guaranteed money on the table by staying in school an extra year. (Not to mention the possibility that the player can suffer a career ending injury in college and then never sign an NHL deal.)

 

And with caps on what an entry level player can make, there isn't a lot of room for a player to squeeze extra money out of the team that drafted them. I would guess that a player like Gerbe will get offered close to the rookie max this off-season, so there isn't much room for him to improve on an offer by winning the Hobey Baker next year.

 

The Sabres have his and Kennedy's rights until August 15, 2009 unless they leave school early, in which case the Sabres have their rights until June 1, 2009.

Nice. Thanks for that. Looks like management holds most of the cards

[inkman]

Miller - 3 rumors confirmed in 1 article

Ex-MSU star opens E.L. shop

Buffalo Sabres goalie Miller, former filmmaker Snyder open N.Y. fashion store

 

Five years ago, Buffalo Sabres goaltender Ryan Miller was playing hockey in Rochester, N.Y., and came across Jason...

 

The two became friends...and decided...to...love.

 

Six months later on April 1, their plan was complete...

 

A New York City filmmaker for years, Snyder was inspired by...women's clothing.

 

Snyder moved home to Rochester to get involved...but didn't stop there...Miller hopes to come.

 

For now, Miller said...the daily picture messages he gets...keeping tabs with Jason.

 

While mornings are slow...people start coming...

 

"But for things like a birthday, their unique dresses would be perfect." he said.

 

"I really like fashion," he said.

 

 

 

I guess that story does confirm some rumors... B-)

[Done]

Ex-MSU star opens E.L. shop

Buffalo Sabres goalie Miller, former filmmaker Snyder open N.Y. fashion store

 

Five years ago, Buffalo Sabres goaltender Ryan Miller was playing hockey in Rochester, N.Y., and came across Jason...

 

The two became friends...and decided...to...love.

 

Six months later on April 1, their plan was complete...

 

A New York City filmmaker for years, Snyder was inspired by...women's clothing.

 

Snyder moved home to Rochester to get involved...but didn't stop there...Miller hopes to come.

 

For now, Miller said...the daily picture messages he gets...keeping tabs with Jason.

 

While mornings are slow...people start coming...

 

"But for things like a birthday, their unique dresses would be perfect." he said.

 

"I really like fashion," he said.

I guess that story does confirm some rumors... B-)

 

I know! Nice........I was thinking something along the lines of a Sports Bar, or Baseball Card Shop.....but to each his own.

[Chief Enabler]

Ex-MSU star opens E.L. shop

Buffalo Sabres goalie Miller, former filmmaker Snyder open N.Y. fashion store

 

[/i]

I guess that story does confirm some rumors... B-)

I sense where you're going, and dont disagree, but still will hold out for more confirmation. I'll give him the benefit, if he wants it.

 

From the website (http://www.therefineryeastlansing.com/tour.htm) it seems pretty low-budget. (sorry could not link-up), and no leather chaps.

 

This might need its own thread.....pinned?

[bob_sauve28]

So what, he's opening a clothing store. Good for him

[Bmwolf21]

They'll spend the off-season working the 5 hole. :devil:

 

That was like shooting fish in a barrel, sorry :rolleyes:

 

Not that I care honestly. He can carry the Cup down Main St in with a feather boa and assless chaps if he wants. The Cup is the important part.

Amen.

[Done]

So what, he's opening a clothing store. Good for him

 

I guess you missed the 4 references to him begging to come back to Michigan. That was the main reason I posted this.

 

After three seasons of hockey as a Spartan from 1999 to 2002, Miller, 26, moved to the American Hockey League to be a part of the Rochester Americans. He has played for both the Americans and the Buffalo Sabres.

But it was always Miller's dream to come back to East Lansing ? the place he grew up

 

 

The growing college population in East Lansing has fueled Miller's desire to return.

 

The most difficult part for Miller, currently in New York playing hockey, is not being able to be in East Lansing for the opening.

 

 

While Miller continues to stay busy with hockey, he knows it is something that won't last forever. He said the opportunity to start a business in East Lansing was something that he just couldn't pass up.

[R_Dudley]

I guess you missed the 4 references to him begging to come back to Michigan. That was the main reason I posted this.

 

After three seasons of hockey as a Spartan from 1999 to 2002, Miller, 26, moved to the American Hockey League to be a part of the Rochester Americans. He has played for both the Americans and the Buffalo Sabres.

But it was always Miller's dream to come back to East Lansing ? the place he grew up

The growing college population in East Lansing has fueled Miller's desire to return.

 

The most difficult part for Miller, currently in New York playing hockey, is not being able to be in East Lansing for the opening.

While Miller continues to stay busy with hockey, he knows it is something that won't last forever. He said the opportunity to start a business in East Lansing was something that he just couldn't pass up.

 

Yeah that is the part I picked up on. That and Miller's comments needing to consider it after LQ went public saying signing him and Pominville is a priority...... What some have opined may very well be true about Miller wanting to go to home and possibly the Red Wings... Let's face it he is in the driver's seat in that he can decide to play out his contract next year no matter what Bflo does or offers...... Maybe it's not all about hockey maybe it's what happens after and the clothes thats more important to Ryan.

 

I believe we will see an honest effort on Bflo's part to resign him to Lundquist type money, If Ryan turns that down it may be because of this and honestly at that point if he doesn't want to be there than I do not want him there either. Maybe some of his concentration problems last year had more to do with this than playing too many games... and if a player does not want to really play somewhere no amount of Money is going to keep them happy.

[shrader]

That might qualify for panic attack. To be fair, and I am sure that you count me among the panic attackers, I was merely pointing out the validity of Bucky's column bringing up the subject and change in leverage. I pointed out in at least two posts that I thought thery would sign all three, especailly Kennedy.

The interseting thing is that they inked Butler first, and while the least heralded, he may be the best NHL prospect of the three.

 

Kennedy gets more mentioning around here (the local factor?), but I'd say that Butler gets more elsewhere. Butler was named an All American (2nd team if I remember correctly) this weekend and Kennedy was nowhere to be found on that list. People are very aware of him in the college world.

 

As for people wondering about the timing of this move, keep in mind that the frozen four was just in Denver this weekend and several NHL front office reps must have been in attendance. The Sabres had easy access to Butler and his people while out there.