Danny Briere 2 goals last night

[Chief Enabler]

[stenbaro]

Where is this at!!!! OMG How freakin Funny..If this is real we have just found our first meeting place!!!!!

[tom webster]

It's a crappy argument in the 1st place.... How many teams played 16 playoff games last year and 18 the year before? Half the players mentioned played 30% fewer games. :thumbdown:

 

Here is a question: How many players scored more than 3 goals in the playoffs last year?

 

First off, I forgot the Ottawa guys. Because there is no composite list, I had to go through each year individually. I am quite sure they are the only guys missing.

Second, how is a list showing Briere is the leading scorer in the playoffs the last three years an insignificant stat and any less relevant then someone repeatedly using one game as a reference point after all of his other arguments have been proven invalid?

And when did assist become less important then goals?

 

The amusiing part of all of your arguments is that the reason Danny has played more then all of these other guys that this board holds in such regard is because they all failed miserably in one of the years in question. Of course I am sure its not their fault, it was probably Danny's.

 

And finally, I am not obsessed with Briere. EVERYONE of my post on this thread has been in response to some post that was either out and out wrong or presented a ridiculous argument.. A couple of facts that I may not have made clear;

1) I was all for choosing Drury over Briere after they screwed up in 2006. I would not have paid him over 5.5, especially since they had two years left with Connolly.

2) I think Briere is a phenominal offensive talent with the instincts to be in the right place at the right time. If it is so easy to do what he does, why doesn't evevrybody do it?

3) I didn't even pick Briere in my playoff pool and because of it I am going to finish 5 out of 45 instead of wimming it.

4) My sole reason for even posting is a continued disbelief at how the two year's prior to this year are so randomly and arbitrarily looked down on.

[BetweenThePipes00]

1) I was all for choosing Drury over Briere after they screwed up in 2006. I would not have paid him over 5.5, especially since they had two years left with Connolly.

2) I think Briere is a phenominal offensive talent with the instincts to be in the right place at the right time. If it is so easy to do what he does, why doesn't evevrybody do it?

Tom and I are often at odds, but I have to defend him here. I could not agree with these two points more - the guy is a very good player and the Sabres DO miss him. I'm not saying the Sabres should have paid him whatever he ended up getting, but I don't understand the hate being heaped on the guy. Everyone is ticked off at what happened last July, and rightfully so, but none of that is Briere's fault.

 

The Sabres chose to try to keep Drury (the right choice but they screwed that up, but whatever) and Briere was free to choose his place to play. Philly overpaid, no doubt. Montreal would have overpaid more. But just because he is overpaid does not make him a bad player or a bad guy. Why root against him or pick apart his game so much?

 

He is what he is ... what he brings to the table was more valuable to Philly than it was to Buffalo, so they were willing to pay more. Even going back to his arbitration year, that's what it boiled down to: As good and he was/is, the Sabres did not feel the need to invest $25 million in a him with Drury/Connolly/Roy/Gaustad (four guys who can all play in all situations) around to play center ... (would have been smart to make sure Drury WAS really locked up and Connolly WAS really healthy, but again, that's another can of worms.) The point is Briere was not greedy and the Sabres were not necessarily cheap or stupid with regard to his situation, even at that time. So I am not upset to see him playing well in Philly, nor will I be happy if he disappears and they lose. I think they made the right choice not to pay him, but I don't need him to play bad or point out his flaws to justify that. I think that's all Tom is saying ... the guy is not a BAD player, let's not pretend he is.

[SDS]

And when did assist become less important then goals?

 

Since hockey was invented...

[GoatheadInCT]

I much prefer this:

 

 

:chris: :thumbsup: :chris:

[spndnchz]

[stenbaro]

First off, I forgot the Ottawa guys. Because there is no composite list, I had to go through each year individually. I am quite sure they are the only guys missing.

Second, how is a list showing Briere is the leading scorer in the playoffs the last three years an insignificant stat and any less relevant then someone repeatedly using one game as a reference point after all of his other arguments have been proven invalid?

And when did assist become less important then goals?

 

The amusiing part of all of your arguments is that the reason Danny has played more then all of these other guys that this board holds in such regard is because they all failed miserably in one of the years in question. Of course I am sure its not their fault, it was probably Danny's.

 

And finally, I am not obsessed with Briere. EVERYONE of my post on this thread has been in response to some post that was either out and out wrong or presented a ridiculous argument.. A couple of facts that I may not have made clear;

1) I was all for choosing Drury over Briere after they screwed up in 2006. I would not have paid him over 5.5, especially since they had two years left with Connolly.

2) I think Briere is a phenominal offensive talent with the instincts to be in the right place at the right time. If it is so easy to do what he does, why doesn't evevrybody do it?

3) I didn't even pick Briere in my playoff pool and because of it I am going to finish 5 out of 45 instead of wimming it.

4) My sole reason for even posting is a continued disbelief at how the two year's prior to this year are so randomly and arbitrarily looked down on.

 

I find myself on the same wavelength as you on 100 percent of our posts..I just had enough of trying to voice my opinion on here..It just became fruitless after while...I just dont get how people can say that the Sabres did the right thing in letting those 2 walk even after the debacle of this last yr..My point of contention being they should have had their ducks in a row a year before their freeagency began..

[carpandean]

Coming faster now:

 

1 .. 2 .. 3 .. 4 .. 5 .. 6 .. 7 .. 8 .. 9 .. 10 .. 11 .. 12 .. 13 .. 14 .. 15 .. 16 .. 17 .. 18 .. 19 .. 20 .. 21 .. 22 .. 23 .. 24 .. 25 .. 26 .. 27 .. 28 .. 29 .. 30 .. 31 .. 32 .. 33 .. 34 .. 35 ..

WE WANT 36!!!!!

 

 

 

and, no, not this guy:

[blugold43]

I find myself on the same wavelength as you on 100 percent of our posts..I just had enough of trying to voice my opinion on here..It just became fruitless after while...I just dont get how people can say that the Sabres did the right thing in letting those 2 walk even after the debacle of this last yr..My point of contention being they should have had their ducks in a row a year before their freeagency began..

don't waste the energy.

 

it's so disgusting watching him lead the flyers on a deep playoff run...i can't even bear to follow it anymore.

 

and to think so many idiot buffalo fans think it was right the way he got run out of town.

 

i hate the flyers worse than any team in any sport, but part of me still wants to see him hoist the cup this year just to spite all the morons who are still unable to recognize his value.

 

and i hope when he does he looks right at the camera and yells "F-YOU DARCY!"

[carpandean]

I just dont get how people can say that the Sabres did the right thing in letting those 2 walk

Just for the sake of correctness: they only let Danny walk. The tried, but failed to keep Chris (how much blame goes to each party depends on which stories you believe, but I'd say that it's safe to say it isn't 100% either way.) May just be a different mistake, but they knew that they needed one, didn't think that they wanted to pay for two, but failed to get their choice.

[SabresFan526]

Just for the sake of correctness: they only let Danny walk. The tried, but failed to keep Chris (how much blame goes to each party depends on which stories you believe, but I'd say that it's safe to say it isn't 100% either way.) May just be a different mistake, but they knew that they needed one, didn't think that they wanted to pay for two, but failed to get their choice, and overpaid for the third who never shows up to play games who they thought could replace one of the guys they let walk away.

Added the Tim Connolly mistake to your sentence as well. Paying a cap hit of $2.9 million for a guy who rarely plays games is $2.9 million too much money. Also, as dazzling as he is on the PP, for a centerman he is absolutely horrible on faceoffs. He is nothing more than a spare part and to think that Connolly would replace the productivity of Briere was a gamble and extremely poor foresight on the part of this management given Connolly's injury history and propensity to break down.

 

I don't think the Sabres should have let Danny walk as he was very productive and was a great player for the Sabres. Having said that, my hatred for the Flyers goes so far, that I cannot help but hope he has a terrible series and the Pens move on. Also, it's a lot easier for me not to like him since he plays for the Flyers. I wish he was on our team, but since he plays for the Flyers, he's getting very close to getting on my hate list. Mike Richards right now is tops on that list, though. My hatred for Mike Richards now is similar to my hatred for Lindros, LeClair, and Recchi from the old days.

[carpandean]

He is nothing more than a spare part and to think that Connolly would replace the productivity of Briere was a gamble and extremely poor foresight on the part of this management given Connolly's injury history and propensity to break down.

I think the idea is that Connolly-Roy would replace the output of Roy-Briere, with Chris covering his same spot. In other words, Roy would increase his output (young guy, constantly improving) and then they could bring in/back Connolly to pick up the rest. Connolly has shown, at times, that he has the skills to be every bit the offensive player that Danny is. However, since the knock to the head, he hasn't been in the line-up consistently enough to see if he can get back to looking that way; he may never again. The first year, they knew they would take a loss, but I imagine that they were hoping he would earn the full contract value in the remaining two years (i.e., had he looked like the player he was in 2005-06, he would have been easily worth 1.5 x his contract hit in each of the those years.) It was a gamble. It definitely didn't pay off this year.

 

As I've said before, though, their big mistake was that after Chris left, they felt that they could go forward with Connolly as one of only 4 true centers (Roy, Connolly, Gaustad, Mair) and one of only two who could play on the top lines (Roy and Connolly.) Once the injuries crept in, they were stuck playing Hecht (a natural winger and someone who really is terrible on face-offs) or Kotalik (that was a bad and mercifully short experiment.) Had they had Chris or another true center who could at least manage on a top line when injuries came up (I've said before that even Peca, with his $1.3 million + bonuses contract as a third-line, shut-down center and PK specialist would have done wonders in that department), they would have been much better off.

[Kristian]

As I've said before, though, their big mistake was that after Chris left, they felt that they could go forward with Connolly as one of only 4 true centers (Roy, Connolly, Gaustad, Mair) and one of only two who could play on the top lines (Roy and Connolly.) Once the injuries crept in, they were stuck playing Hecht (a natural winger and someone who really is terrible on face-offs) or Kotalik (that was a bad and mercifully short experiment.) Had they had Chris or another true center who could at least manage on a top line when injuries came up (I've said before that even Peca, with his $1.3 million + bonuses contract as a third-line, shut-down center and PK specialist would have done wonders in that department), they would have been much better off.

 

I agree with all of that basically.

 

We've traditionally been very strong down the middle, and this year was the total opposite.

 

Add to that our defensive woes, and a subpar season from Miller most likely due to the excessive workload, and it's amazing we were even in the running down the stretch.

[stenbaro]

Just for the sake of correctness: they only let Danny walk. The tried, but failed to keep Chris (how much blame goes to each party depends on which stories you believe, but I'd say that it's safe to say it isn't 100% either way.) May just be a different mistake, but they knew that they needed one, didn't think that they wanted to pay for two, but failed to get their choice.

Come on, If they had really wanted to sign him they would have told the agent and Chris Back in 06 lets get this done now, we dont want to wait, whats it going to take to get it done right now? You put the agent and the player on the spot and you dont stop till they give you an answer..If they dont give you an answer then any freaking moron knows they wont sign with you..Guess what in october when he outs 13 goals in the net his ass is oughta here for the motherload..The Sabres held all the cards at that point...They are responsible not Chris...

[deluca67]

Wow, according to some people, Briere's plus/minus was a -99999999999

Eastern Conference Finals

 

13 Games Played

5 Goals

5 Assists

-9 Plus/Minus

 

Compare that to his first round success.

 

19 Games Played

10 Goals

15 Assists

+4 Plus/Minus

 

Make off those numbers what you will.

[carpandean]

Come on, If they had really wanted to sign him they would have told the agent and Chris Back in 06 lets get this done now, we dont want to wait, whats it going to take to get it done right now? You put the agent and the player on the spot and you dont stop till they give you an answer..If they dont give you an answer then any freaking moron knows they wont sign with you..Guess what in october when he outs 13 goals in the net his ass is oughta here for the motherload..The Sabres held all the cards at that point...They are responsible not Chris...

And one of two things could happen:

1) His price goes way up beyond what they should be paying him.

2) He says no and they play the rest of the season with someone who is in a contract battle with the team and will likely walk.

 

Even if they do get Chris to sign a big contract in the Summer/Fall, then what happens when they either refuse to talk with Danny or continue to low-ball him (relative to what he thinks he is worth) because they didn't want to give both big contracts? That could have been very bad in the middle of their cup run.

 

Negotiation is a tricky game. Did they do all that they could have? No. They made some mistakes. Did they do enough that, if he really wanted to stay, he would have signed? Probably. They weren't even asking for a home town discount in the end. They may take the lion's share of the blame, but on at least some level, he chose the Rangers over them. I know that "Tom" will say that the Rangers weren't an option until after Nylander didn't sign, but there was at least a chance long before that. The Rangers wanted another big name center even with Nylander in the line-up and Chris was near the top of that list. Even if Gomez was their number one choice, there was still a very good chance that they wouldn't get him, making Chris their number one choice. Certainly good enough odds for him to wait until July to find out. Believe me, nobody here wishes that they had gotten it done with Drury last year more that I do, but he is not 100% blameless. As I said, I would never question his on-ice commitment to whatever team he is playing for, but off the ice, he made a decision to leave. Did they give him some reason to go that way? Yeah, but not enough to say that there was no way that he would stay.

[stenbaro]

And one of two things could happen:

1) His price goes way up beyond what they should be paying him.

2) He says no and they play the rest of the season with someone who is in a contract battle with the team and will likely walk.

 

Even if they do get Chris to sign a big contract in the Summer/Fall, then what happens when they either refuse to talk with Danny or continue to low-ball him (relative to what he thinks he is worth) because they didn't want to give both big contracts? That could have been very bad in the middle of their cup run.

 

Negotiation is a tricky game. Did they do all that they could have? No. They made some mistakes. Did they do enough that, if he really wanted to stay, he would have signed? Probably. They weren't even asking for a home town discount in the end. They may take the lion's share of the blame, but on at least some level, he chose the Rangers over them. I know that "Tom" will say that the Rangers weren't an option until after Nylander didn't sign, but there was at least a chance long before that. The Rangers wanted another big name center even with Nylander in the line-up and Chris was near the top of that list. Even if Gomez was their number one choice, there was still a very good chance that they wouldn't get him, making Chris their number one choice. Certainly good enough odds for him to wait until July to find out. Believe me, nobody here wishes that they had gotten it done with Drury last year more that I do, but he is not 100% blameless. As I said, I would never question his on-ice commitment to whatever team he is playing for, but off the ice, he made a decision to leave. Did they give him some reason to go that way? Yeah, but not enough to say that there was no way that he would stay.

They should have never let him get to the point where he was given the choice..Once they left the door open a crack he was gone..I lay all the blame with the Sabres..It should have never, never never and I repeat never gotten to the point where he could negotiate with another team..

[carpandean]

They should have never let him get to the point where he was given the choice..Once they left the door open a crack he was gone..I lay all the blame with the Sabres..It should have never, never never and I repeat never gotten to the point where he could negotiate with another team..

Obviously. ;)

 

Like I said, they may deserve the bulk of the blame for not pressing a little harder, but Chris always had a choice. They couldn't force him to do anything. Obviously, they overestimated his desire to stay. In the end, they threw the bank at him and he still left. If he wanted a deal, his agent could also have said, "here's what it will take or we'll be exploring my FA options ..." That's how negotiations work, back and forth. Maybe they were moving too slowly, but according to his "side", they called off negotiations. Should they have moved things along; not dragged their feet? Yes, absolutely. Is it overreacting to walk away because they were? Yes, most certainly. It's not like it was June, with a deadline approaching. Give them a not-so-subtle reminder, sign it and get back to playing.

 

So, again, I agree that management screwed up and apparently they realize it too, but Chris and his agent have to share a small part of the blame. If my boss said that he wanted to extend my contract which would end in nine months (a situation that I am actually in this year), I wouldn't throw up may hands, assuming I wasn't really wanted, just because he took a few weeks to get me a contract.

[stenbaro]

Obviously. ;) Like I said, they may deserve the bulk of the blame for not pressing a little harder, but Chris always had a choice. They couldn't force him to do anything. Obviously, they overestimated his desire to stay. In the end, they threw the bank at him and he still left. If he wanted a deal, his agent could also have said, "here's what it will take or we'll be exploring my FA options ..." That's how negotiations work, back and forth. Maybe they were moving too slowly, but according to his "side", they called off negotiations. Should they have moved things along; not dragged their feet? Yes, absolutely. Is it overreacting to walk away because they were? Yes, most certainly. It's not like it was June, with a deadline approaching. Give them a not-so-subtle reminder, sign it and get back to playing.

 

So, again, I agree that management screwed up and apparently they realize it too, but Chris and his agent have to share a small part of the blame. If my boss said that he wanted to extend my contract which would end in nine months (a situation that I am actually in this year), I wouldn't throw up may hands, assuming I wasn't really wanted, just because he took a few weeks to get me a contract.

I am stubborn my wife says..lol...

 

Again they left the door open..He didnt like something..He left..We will never know what he didnt like he isnt one to kiss and tell..The Sabres could have stopped it way before and they didnt..He chose to leave because they let him..He left on his choice no doubt, but that should have never been an option.... :thumbsup:

[deluca67]

I am stubborn my wife says..lol...

 

Again they left the door open..He didnt like something..He left..We will never know what he didnt like he isnt one to kiss and tell..The Sabres could have stopped it way before and they didnt..He chose to leave because they let him..He left on his choice no doubt, but that should have never been an option.... :thumbsup:

It's funny that Sabres fans are still bemoaning the fact that Drury left. I wonder if the Rangers fans are bemoaning his signing. He cost a lot of money and in the end he made no difference for them at all. They finished this season just like they finished last season.

[stenbaro]

It's funny that Sabres fans are still bemoaning the fact that Drury left. I wonder if the Rangers fans are bemoaning his signing. He cost a lot of money and in the end he made no difference for them at all. They finished this season just like they finished last season.

DIfferent team different role....Here he was our number 1 there he was 3...I wouldnt be pissed with having him as my number 3..Although thats alot of money for a number 3..

[Bmwolf21]

If the Rangers fans are pissed about Drury's contract then they should target their venom toward the proper people - the Rangers' FO. Glen Sather was the one who agreed to a $7.1M/year contract for Drury - Chris didn't hold a gun to their heads and say "you will pay me this." They could easily have said "we got Gomez, but can't bring on another $7M cap hit in Drury."

 

As much as most Sabres' fans bemoan the losses of Drury, Briere and Campbell, the Sabres' FO set their minds as to what each players' value was, either in terms of annual salary or length of contract, and pretty much stuck to it. It does disturb me a bit that the Sabres were willing to match the Rags' offer to Drury, which is a ridiculous contract for someone of Dru's skill set - unless that was strictly a PR move to cover their blunders in Dru's negotiations, and they probably already knew that he was gone no matter what they offered.

[stenbaro]

If the Rangers fans are pissed about Drury's contract then they should target their venom toward the proper people - the Rangers' FO. Glen Sather was the one who agreed to a $7.1M/year contract for Drury - Chris didn't hold a gun to their heads and say "you will pay me this." They could easily have said "we got Gomez, but can't bring on another $7M cap hit in Drury."

 

As much as most Sabres' fans bemoan the losses of Drury, Briere and Campbell, the Sabres' FO set their minds as to what each players' value was, either in terms of annual salary or length of contract, and pretty much stuck to it. It does disturb me a bit that the Sabres were willing to match the Rags' offer to Drury, which is a ridiculous contract for someone of Dru's skill set - unless that was strictly a PR move to cover their blunders in Dru's negotiations, and they probably already knew that he was gone no matter what they offered.

Name another player in the NHL that does what Drury does in crunch time.....an be an alloround player and leader..Just curious, it has nothing to do with any previous posts just thought it up...

[Bmwolf21]

Name another player in the NHL that does what Drury does in crunch time.....an be an alloround player and leader..Just curious, it has nothing to do with any previous posts just thought it up...

Before you go barking up the wrong tree I should tell you that Drury was one of my favorite Sabres of all-time and I openly campaigned for the Sabres to keep him over Briere last year. I was disgusted when he left and furious when I heard the stories that the Sabres had supposedly reached a deal with his camp and then screwed it up somehow.

 

Yes, his intangibles, his clutch scoring and his ability to play both ends of the ice are all very impressive and he is the veteran leader you build your roster around, but before hitting UFA status I had him pegged in the $5M - $6.25 range. $7.1M is a little too much for Drury IMO.