matter2003 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 As bad as Vanek played at times this year, you look at him with 35 goals at the end of the season and I have to say I am amazed... If a guy can play this "crappy" and still score 35 goals, something most other NHL'ers couldn't do in their career best seasons, just what is this kid capable of if he plays like he did at times in the 2nd half of the season?? I can see a few 50 goal seasons out of Vanek...possibly even 1 next year...
Chief Enabler Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 As bad as Vanek played at times this year, you look at him with 35 goals at the end of the season and I have to say I am amazed... If a guy can play this "crappy" and still score 35 goals, something most other NHL'ers couldn't do in their career best seasons, just what is this kid capable of if he plays like he did at times in the 2nd half of the season?? I can see a few 50 goal seasons out of Vanek...possibly even 1 next year... I am amazed too, maybe not for the same reasons. I know I have been on the bashing side of this, but the way he goes about getting his goals is crafty. Rarely have we seen straight up pinpoint shots gone in. If he does turn into a 50 goal scorer and teams focus on preventing him nightly, I dont believe he would overcome the oppression and adversity. He doesnt strike me as a gamer like a Roy, Stafford, Bernier. Beyond the stats, his contract, etc. The team needs to win games, thats the bottom line.
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 As bad as Vanek played at times this year, you look at him with 35 goals at the end of the season and I have to say I am amazed... If a guy can play this "crappy" and still score 35 goals, something most other NHL'ers couldn't do in their career best seasons, just what is this kid capable of if he plays like he did at times in the 2nd half of the season?? I can see a few 50 goal seasons out of Vanek...possibly even 1 next year... 36 goals is not bad..There was a thread Labbatt started I think it got wasted in the nuclear blast , but I think it had something to do with if Vanek scors 30 goals this yr does it make it easier to swallow his big contract???Unfortunatly anything he does will be compared with his contract he signed..He went looking for it which is his right but it certainly put the pressure on him ....You sign for money like that you better be 50 goals 50 assists or however you want to break it down but a 100 points is what he should be at...His goals are nice to watch though. You know what I missed from him this yr was the way the puck would seem to attach itself to his stick in a crowd..It seemed to hop off this yr...
matter2003 Posted April 6, 2008 Author Report Posted April 6, 2008 I am amazed too, maybe not for the same reasons. I know I have been on the bashing side of this, but the way he goes about getting his goals is crafty. Rarely have we seen straight up pinpoint shots gone in. If he does turn into a 50 goal scorer and teams focus on preventing him nightly, I dont believe he would overcome the oppression and adversity. He doesnt strike me as a gamer like a Roy, Stafford, Bernier. Well, I disagree a little bit---the guy takes a serious beating on the PP in front of the net and has been instrumental to a lot of the PP goals from the point going in, even when he doesn't tip them because of his willingness to stand there and screen the goalie while getting crosschecked in the back and neck...
Chief Enabler Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Well, I disagree a little bit---the guy takes a serious beating on the PP in front of the net and has been instrumental to a lot of the PP goals from the point going in, even when he doesn't tip them because of his willingness to stand there and screen the goalie while getting crosschecked in the back and neck... Absolutely, he does get banged, and he should get credit for that. Which I dont believe he did last year as much at all. You know he was more of a transition forward with Roy & Max (40+ goals). Like I added to my earlier post, the team needs to win games beyond stats.
Campy Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Well, I disagree a little bit---the guy takes a serious beating on the PP in front of the net and has been instrumental to a lot of the PP goals from the point going in, even when he doesn't tip them because of his willingness to stand there and screen the goalie while getting crosschecked in the back and neck... He had an atrocious start, for sure. But I thought he loosened up on the stick and acquitted himself well - in terms of goal scoring. I still wish he was a more physical player, and I wish he wouldn't go through those bouts of lazy play, but he played pretty darn well after the All-Star break. I have high expectations for him next year.
rickshaw Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 He is obviously a talented true scorer but his problem is that he is way too streaky and he admitted that himself. Take away his 3 hat tricks and he' in the 20's. Let's not sugarcoat it. He had a bad year. He'll be better next year and down the road, especially if he learns to not be streaky.
nucci Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 He is obviously a talented true scorer but his problem is that he is way too streaky and he admitted that himself. Take away his 3 hat tricks and he' in the 20's. Let's not sugarcoat it. He had a bad year. He'll be better next year and down the road, especially if he learns to not be streaky. Why would you take away his 3 hat tricks? Don't those goals count?
bob_sauve28 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 He is obviously a talented true scorer but his problem is that he is way too streaky and he admitted that himself. Take away his 3 hat tricks and he' in the 20's. Let's not sugarcoat it. He had a bad year. He'll be better next year and down the road, especially if he learns to not be streaky. Take away his hat tricks? huh? :unsure: He scored them. Its amazing he gets hat tricks, great players do that.
Bmwolf21 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 He is obviously a talented true scorer but his problem is that he is way too streaky and he admitted that himself. Take away his 3 hat tricks and he' in the 20's. Let's not sugarcoat it. He had a bad year. He'll be better next year and down the road, especially if he learns to not be streaky. True. If you look at his goal-scoring numbers by Month, you'll see that his hot February really salvaged his season, pushing him from a 20-25-goal scorer to a mid-30s guy: October - 3 November - 3 December - 5 January - 3 February - 13 March - 5 April - 4 LINK
shrader Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Take away his hat tricks? huh? :unsure: He scored them. Its amazing he gets hat tricks, great players do that. But hey, at least we're letting him keep the 4th one.
ofiba Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Take away his 3 hat tricks and he' in the 20's. Let's not sugarcoat it. He had a bad year. He'll be better next year and down the road, especially if he learns to not be streaky. Didn't 2 of those hat tricks essential come back and win 2 games???? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Can we take away Ovechkin's multi-goal games too?
rickshaw Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Granted all his hat tricks came in wins and that is great. He definitely didn't get Satan tricks. I guess my point should have leaned more on the streaky side of things. I'm sure TV would have preferred to have 12-15 two goal games this year. He didn't get a multi goal game until late Feb I believe. That is not acceptable. I like Vanek and think he'll be a 50 goal guy many times, but not until he learns to bring it every night.
LabattBlue Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 I like Vanek and think he'll be a 50 goal guy many times, but not until he learns to bring it every night. My biggest problem is that I don't think Vanek's "effort" this year was any better than last year. So my question is, will he ever be motivated to the point where he gives an honest effort for the majority(I'll settle for 70 games or so) of games in a season?
matter2003 Posted April 6, 2008 Author Report Posted April 6, 2008 He is obviously a talented true scorer but his problem is that he is way too streaky and he admitted that himself. Take away his 3 hat tricks and he' in the 20's. Let's not sugarcoat it. He had a bad year. He'll be better next year and down the road, especially if he learns to not be streaky. I'm sure 95% of the other NHL forwards would love to have "bad years" where they score 36 goals...
rickshaw Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 I'm sure 95% of the other NHL forwards would love to have "bad years" where they score 36 goals... Um, 95% of the other players didn't make $10 million this season. One thing about Vanek is that he scores big goals. He was 3rd in the league with 9 game winners, 2 behind Ovechkin. So all TV needs to do is bring his game each and every night. Once he does that 36 goals will be a thing of the past. On a side note, to show that stats can sure be misleading sometimes. How does Jeremy Roenick get 10 game winners out of just 14 goals scored? Wow!
apuszczalowski Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 It all depends on actually breaking down his goals scored rather then just looking at the stat sheet at the end. And if you look at the goals, how many were credited to him later because they were tipped in off of someone elses shot, or how many came in blow out situations? How many were scored when the team really needed it? Looking at the stats and then at his contract, he was a disapointment this year, someone making that kind of money should be putting up more then what he put up. Sure he could and probably will get better, but thats not a guarantee. He really didn't step up his play much this year and was streaky, as pointed out by looking at his production per month. he didn't step up his play to match his new contract. Satan scored hat tricks too, but we all complain about him, and sadly, I could see Vanek becoming a Satan type player where he will score in bunches when the Sabres don't need the extra goals, and be invisible when they need him Theres no denying that for what he was being payed this year, he was disapointing. You can try and justify it by saying he is young and will get better, or that they were forced to pay him that amount, but the reality is, he is being payed as one of the leagues top players, and he is not a top player, yet.
LabattBlue Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Um, 95% of the other players didn't make $10 million this season. Oh yeah? It's not his fault he is making 10 mil this year! At least that is what I keep being reminded of. :lol: :lol:
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 Oh yeah? It's not his fault he is making 10 mil this year! At least that is what I keep being reminded of. :lol: :lol: I wish you still had the thread you started about Vanek earlier
LabattBlue Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 I wish you still had the thread you started about Vanek earlier The "would you be happy if Vanek hit the 30-30 mark"?
stenbaro Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 The "would you be happy if Vanek hit the 30-30 mark"? Correct
SabresFan526 Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 It's tough to say that 36 goals and the leading goal scorer on the team is a bad season, but you have to look deeper than the numbers. First, we all know the contract, so that's how he will be measured, whether that was deserved or not is irrelevant, it is his contract and he must be judged against it. Second, aside from February, he had some pretty mediocre scoring months. 36 goals is a great season, no doubt, but the problem with Vanek is his lack of consistency this year. He was too streaky. We needed Vanek to be consistent and lead this team, especially with his contract. He did not do that this year, and was very lazy during many games this year. I think he was playing under a lot of pressure because of the contract, and he was adjusting to being a top line player and hence why he had a terrible start to the year. But, we need Vanek to be consistent and to be a mid 40-50 goal scorer. Hence that's why 36 goals is considered a bad season for Vanek. Hopefully, next year, he'll be more consistent and play hard every night, including in the defensive zone. And he needs to figure out how to be a top line consistent performer against shutdown defenses.
SabresFanInRochester Posted April 6, 2008 Report Posted April 6, 2008 I am a huge fan of TV. Season ticket holder and proud wearer of #26 jersey every game. That being said, two criticisms or observations. He misses by the tiniest amount, a lot. Early in the year, it was goal post after wide shot on an empty net, ... I don't know if he is trying too hard at that point or if it is just part of the game. The bigger complaint is his inability to clear the defensive zone. I could pay his contract if every time I heard Jeanneret say "Vanek off the boards, still not out" I got a quarter. I notice that about many of our wingers, which is discouraging, and I wonder if it is the system.
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