another day, another story about Campbell

[lothar]

sharks and brian in lovefest

 

I know some folks here were thinking we might go after him at the end of the season. Methinks he's found heaven in San Jose and that ain't gonna happen.

 

Amazing what's happened to our team. I know this has been discussed ad nauseum but I'm still in shock as to how far - and how fast - we've fallen. Losing leadership (Drury), a shootout and powerplay weapon (Briere) and our lone PP specialist (Campbell) shows up in shootouts and tight games during crunch time. And although we do have some good solid kids, rebuilding our defense seems a gargantuan task. I'm not optimistic given our FO moves over the last 2 years.

[SabresFan526]

Good for Soupy. I'm happy for him. To be honest, I'm not surprised at all by his success in SJ. The fact is, he really needs to play with a defensive defenseman. We all know he's vulnerable in the defensive zone, but SJ has a team of guys who will cover for Soupy. They have forwards who will backcheck if Soupy makes a pinch. Imagine that instead of guys like Max who give the puck over and weight at the red line in hopes that he can spring the breakaway. Almost all of their defenseman are defensively inclined, much more so than the Sabres defenseman, and hence can cover for Soupy's mistakes in the defensive zone as well.

 

Having said that, while he's definitely added offense, I've seen quite a few highlights, and he still seems to be frequently on the ice when the other team scores. Only difference is, he's on the ice for almost all of the Sharks goals, and since they've been winning a ton since he got there, this has had no impact on his +/-. It's a good fit for him, and he's playing with a lot more talented players than he had this year in Buffalo, he's playing with defenseman who will cover up for his defensive zone mistakes, and he's playing with a better goalie who does not give up soft goals. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Ryan Miller fan, but let's be honest with ourselves, Nabokov is a much better goalie than Miller is and does not give up as many soft goals as Ryan does. Campbell with the Sharks is a great fit, they desperately needed him and he fits well with them.

[Bmwolf21]

526 - not to hijack the thread, but your point about Nabokov and Miller got me thinking, so I looked at their stats.

--They've played the same # of games (74);

--Nabakov has a much better GAA (2.14 to 2.63)

--Their shootout numbers are similar - Miller is 3-7 in SO, allowing 13 goals on 27 for a .518 SV%, while Nabokov is 6-6, allowing 18 goals on 40 shots for a .550 SV%.

--The thing that stood out to me was this - their SV% is nearly identical - Miller at .908, Nabokov at .910 - but in the same number of games, Miller has faced 300 more SOG than Nabokov.

[tom webster]

Good for Soupy. I'm happy for him. To be honest, I'm not surprised at all by his success in SJ. The fact is, he really needs to play with a defensive defenseman. We all know he's vulnerable in the defensive zone, but SJ has a team of guys who will cover for Soupy. They have forwards who will backcheck if Soupy makes a pinch. Imagine that instead of guys like Max who give the puck over and weight at the red line in hopes that he can spring the breakaway. Almost all of their defenseman are defensively inclined, much more so than the Sabres defenseman, and hence can cover for Soupy's mistakes in the defensive zone as well.

 

Having said that, while he's definitely added offense, I've seen quite a few highlights, and he still seems to be frequently on the ice when the other team scores. Only difference is, he's on the ice for almost all of the Sharks goals, and since they've been winning a ton since he got there, this has had no impact on his +/-. It's a good fit for him, and he's playing with a lot more talented players than he had this year in Buffalo, he's playing with defenseman who will cover up for his defensive zone mistakes, and he's playing with a better goalie who does not give up soft goals. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Ryan Miller fan, but let's be honest with ourselves, Nabokov is a much better goalie than Miller is and does not give up as many soft goals as Ryan does. Campbell with the Sharks is a great fit, they desperately needed him and he fits well with them.

 

Maybe the answer should have been the Sabres improve things around him instead of getting rid of him.

Also, Brian is a plus 10 , and opponents have scored an average of 2 goals against. Now I could spend some time defusing your anecdotal story about him being on for most of the goals against, bu I think we both know what I will find.

[SabresFan526]

526 - not to hijack the thread, but your point about Nabokov and Miller got me thinking, so I looked at their stats.

--They've played the same # of games (74);

--Nabakov has a much better GAA (2.14 to 2.63)

--Their shootout numbers are similar - Miller is 3-7 in SO, allowing 13 goals on 27 for a .518 SV%, while Nabokov is 6-6, allowing 18 goals on 40 shots for a .550 SV%.

--The thing that stood out to me was this - their SV% is nearly identical - Miller at .908, Nabokov at .910 - but in the same number of games, Miller has faced 300 more SOG than Nabokov.

I cannot argue on with you on the stats. The thing that seems strange, or better yet the story that the stats don't seem to show is that SJ is second in the league and is close to winning the Jennings trophy with only 183 Goals Against this season while Buffalo has given up 236 Goals Against. I realize that not all goals have been let in by Miller and similarly the case for Nabokov, but given the number of games both of have played, the good majority would be given up by these two. Why has San Jose given up 53 fewer goals?

 

The two points I've highlighted in bold are the key stats as I see them when you compare the two goalies. Number one, Nabokov has a better GAA which is why the Sharks are in the running for the Jennings Trophy. The second point shows me one of two things, either the teams don't take that many shots against the Sharks because their system forces teams to play exclusively from the perimeter, or that the defenseman for the Sharks block way more shots than the defenseman for the Sabres. If the latter is the case, which is what I would suspect (can't seem to find where the stat is recorded), that goes to show me that most of the defenseman in SJ aside from Campbell play with a much more defensive mindset and hence will block shots and cover for Campbell in the defensive zone if he makes a mistake. The benefit is that means Nabokov faces fewer shots on goal and possibly one of the reasons his GAA is significantly lower than Ryan's even if his save percentage is not that much better. To me, it seems like overall, the talent is better in SJ this year, and the defensive system as well as the defenseman there will not expose Campbell's defensive mistakes.

[SabresFan526]

Maybe the answer should have been the Sabres improve things around him instead of getting rid of him.

Also, Brian is a plus 10 , and opponents have scored an average of 2 goals against. Now I could spend some time defusing your anecdotal story about him being on for most of the goals against, bu I think we both know what I will find.

I did not say he is on for most of the goals against. I just said that when I've seen highlights of Sharks games, I have frequently seen him on the ice for goals against. But, he's also on the ice quite a bit when the Sharks score, so clearly that positively impacts his +/-. And, since they have been winning a lot of games recently, it seems like he is clearly on the ice when the Sharks score, but it seems like from what I have seen he happens to frequently be on the ice when they give up a goal as well. I'm not saying he's on the ice for every goal against, just something I've noticed when I watch the highlights on NHL On the Fly. Regardless, he's on a better team in SJ than he is in Buffalo, and they make up for his deficiencies and he is able to shine in that environment because of it.

[Bmwolf21]

I cannot argue on with you on the stats. The thing that seems strange, or better yet the story that the stats don't seem to show is that SJ is second in the league and is close to winning the Jennings trophy with only 183 Goals Against this season while Buffalo has given up 236 Goals Against. I realize that not all goals have been let in by Miller and similarly the case for Nabokov, but given the number of games both of have played, the good majority would be given up by these two. Why has San Jose given up 53 fewer goals?

 

The two points I've highlighted in bold are the key stats as I see them when you compare the two goalies. Number one, Nabokov has a better GAA which is why the Sharks are in the running for the Jennings Trophy. The second point shows me one of two things, either the teams don't take that many shots against the Sharks because their system forces teams to play exclusively from the perimeter, or that the defenseman for the Sharks block way more shots than the defenseman for the Sabres. If the latter is the case, which is what I would suspect (can't seem to find where the stat is recorded), that goes to show me that most of the defenseman in SJ aside from Campbell play with a much more defensive mindset and hence will block shots and cover for Campbell in the defensive zone if he makes a mistake. The benefit is that means Nabokov faces fewer shots on goal and possibly one of the reasons his GAA is significantly lower than Ryan's even if his save percentage is not that much better. To me, it seems like overall, the talent is better in SJ this year, and the defensive system as well as the defenseman there will not expose Campbell's defensive mistakes.

I hate to sound like I'm constantly making the same "excuse" but it's got to be a combination of the differences between the Sabres' and Sharks' systems and the makeup of the their defensive corps. Buffalo is uptempo, attack attack attack, while San Jose is more defensively responsible (from the limited number of times I've seen them I haven't gotten the impression that the Sharks are playing the Sabres' pond hockey system.) I think we've seen a handful of games this year where the Sabres have focused on the defense a little more and kept the opposition to the outside, and as a result limited the other team to 1-2 goals.

[SabresFan526]

Maybe the answer should have been the Sabres improve things around him instead of getting rid of him.

Also, Brian is a plus 10 , and opponents have scored an average of 2 goals against. Now I could spend some time defusing your anecdotal story about him being on for most of the goals against, bu I think we both know what I will find.

Actually, here's what I find when I go through the stats:

 

Since joining San Jose,

 

Campbell has two games where he ended as -1. In one game he got one point and in another game he got 2 points where he was a -1.

 

Campbell has been even in 5 games. Of those 5 games where he was even, he scored a point in 4 of those games. Of those games in which he scored a point, 3 of those games were Powerplay points meaning no impact on his +/-. So, in one game he was an even player where he was on the ice for a goal for and also on the ice for a goal against.

 

Campbell has been a +1 in 8 games with San Jose.

 

Campbell has been a +2 in 2 games with San Jose.

 

So, with San Jose, overall he is a +8. I could go through the scores and try to figure out his per game +/- in greater detail, but I don't really want to. +8 is pretty good for a team that has won I think 14 of 16 games. But, he does still seem to be on the ice when other teams score against. Regardless, that does not diminish the fact that the team around him is much better than Buffalo this year and hence he is able to play with guys that will not expose his defensive deficiencies and allow him to play his game which is a very strong offensive brand of hockey from the defenseman position.

[tom webster]

Actually, here's what I find when I go through the stats:

 

Since joining San Jose,

 

Campbell has two games where he ended as -1. In one game he got one point and in another game he got 2 points where he was a -1.

 

Campbell has been even in 5 games. Of those 5 games where he was even, he scored a point in 4 of those games. Of those games in which he scored a point, 3 of those games were Powerplay points meaning no impact on his +/-. So, in one game he was an even player where he was on the ice for a goal for and also on the ice for a goal against.

 

Campbell has been a +1 in 8 games with San Jose.

 

Campbell has been a +2 in 2 games with San Jose.

 

So, with San Jose, overall he is a +8. I could go through the scores and try to figure out his per game +/- in greater detail, but I don't really want to. +8 is pretty good for a team that has won I think 14 of 16 games. But, he does still seem to be on the ice when other teams score against. Regardless, that does not diminish the fact that the team around him is much better than Buffalo this year and hence he is able to play with guys that will not expose his defensive deficiencies and allow him to play his game which is a very strong offensive brand of hockey from the defenseman position.

 

I am tired and going to bed,but he is plus 10 in 17 games with San Jose.

[SabresFan526]

I hate to sound like I'm constantly making the same "excuse" but it's got to be a combination of the differences between the Sabres' and Sharks' systems and the makeup of the their defensive corps. Buffalo is uptempo, attack attack attack, while San Jose is more defensively responsible (from the limited number of times I've seen them I haven't gotten the impression that the Sharks are playing the Sabres' pond hockey system.) I think we've seen a handful of games this year where the Sabres have focused on the defense a little more and kept the opposition to the outside, and as a result limited the other team to 1-2 goals.

I can't argue with you on that at all. The best stat we can get is if we knew the Goals per game for San Jose before Campbell got there vs. after and the Goals Against per game before he go there and after and then we can really see. I agree that the Sharks system is a bit more defensive minded as are the players there and that is a major reason why Nabokov has better numbers. It's also a reason why Campbell will be exposed less in the defensive zone because the system and the players will cover for him. That's really my point. I did not want to make this a Miller vs. Nabokov debate, more why Campbell is a really good fit in San Jose.

[SabresFan526]

I am tired and going to bed,but he is plus 10 in 17 games with San Jose.

You are right, I added wrong. +10 in 17 games.

[deluca67]

Good for Brian Campbell. He's still not worth the money he was looking for. The Sabres did the right thing and got a nice return for their asset.

[inkman]

I know some folks here were thinking we might go after him at the end of the season.

 

Only the dumb ones.

[X. Benedict]

Gotta love this from Roenick:

 

"?He reminds me of Paul Coffey, the way he can get all the way up the ice with a couple of strides. He?s a smart player that can log a lot of minutes, almost like our version of Scott Niedermayer.?

 

Our version of Coffey? Neidermayer? Boy were they desperate for his skill set.

 

Good for Soup.

[Bmwolf21]

Gotta love this from Roenick:

 

"?He reminds me of Paul Coffey, the way he can get all the way up the ice with a couple of strides. He?s a smart player that can log a lot of minutes, almost like our version of Scott Niedermayer.?

 

Our version of Coffey? Neidermayer? Boy were they desperate for his skill set.

 

Good for Soup.

Good for Soup, but let's consider the source of those comments. Roenick is an idiot.

[X. Benedict]

Good for Soup, but let's consider the source of those comments. Roenick is an idiot.

 

Roenick has never met a microphone he hasn't liked. :lol:

 

Yes - way over the top. But Soup's agent must incontinent with pleasure over this stuff.

[LabattBlue]

I haven't seen Campbell play since the trade and we all know how misleading +/- can be(see Vanek from last year). All I know is that his play here wasn't deserving of the money he was after and DR made the right move. If all of a sudden after the trade, he started playing again like the Campbell from the 1st half of the 06-07 season, there is not much DR could do about it now.

[carpandean]

I liked Brian a lot. I think he's a good guy and a flashy player. However, he is what we had too much of and what the Sharks had too little of. They had a very defensive system and knew they needed to bring in one good puck moving defenseman. Campbell fits that bill. We have a very offensive system and are now seeing that we need to bring in some stay-at-home defensemen. Weber is a start, but most of us would agree that they need to bring in one more to play opposite Spacek.

 

Unfortunately, he did take a way some of our PP abilities - though it was still weak even when he was here - so that will need to come from somewhere else. The PP seemed to flow pretty well against Boston when Lindy put Sekera at the point, but only time will tell if he can step into Brian's place there.

[stenbaro]

Hockey is a team game, no one player is going to win a Stanley CUp by themselves, however when you keep letting good players go even if some fans dont like what they are getting paid, sooner or later that team is going to falter..People here have made every excuse in the book about why Drury left, GRier, Blah blah, Why we had to get rid of Campbell and listened to the ones the Sabres spewed out..Well we have what you wished for....A watered down nonplayoff version of a hockeyteam....

 

You say Drury and Brierre leaving didnt hurt the SAbres..LOL..You point out that Roy and Pominville have made up for thier losses in points, great but how bout the teams they went to..They have helped them which in turn has knocked us out...How bout the players that replaced Roy and Pominville on their old spots..LOL..Those are the players that have hurt the team..My point being is we should have tried to add, fix our weakness rather than dismember our team..Now you still have to fix a defense and add leadership..Dont tell me that we have it because if we did we wouldnt be blowing 2 goal leads during crunch time.....

 

 

The excuses I have read on this post are just that excuses for following your favorite team..I get it..I dont blame you for wanting to believe..But come on enough is enough...

[kingcongkorab]

Hockey is a team game, no one player is going to win a Stanley CUp by themselves, however when you keep letting good players go even if some fans dont like what they are getting paid, sooner or later that team is going to falter..People here have made every excuse in the book about why Drury left, GRier, Blah blah, Why we had to get rid of Campbell and listened to the ones the Sabres spewed out..Well we have what you wished for....A watered down nonplayoff version of a hockeyteam....

 

You say Drury and Brierre leaving didnt hurt the SAbres..LOL..You point out that Roy and Pominville have made up for thier losses in points, great but how bout the teams they went to..They have helped them which in turn has knocked us out...How bout the players that replaced Roy and Pominville on their old spots..LOL..Those are the players that have hurt the team..My point being is we should have tried to add, fix our weakness rather than dismember our team..Now you still have to fix a defense and add leadership..Dont tell me that we have it because if we did we wouldnt be blowing 2 goal leads during crunch time.....

The excuses I have read on this post are just that excuses for following your favorite team..I get it..I dont blame you for wanting to believe..But come on enough is enough...

Just saw on the NHL on the Fly that Drury leads the Rangers in power play goals and in game winning goals.

[apuszczalowski]

Hockey is a team game, no one player is going to win a Stanley CUp by themselves, however when you keep letting good players go even if some fans dont like what they are getting paid, sooner or later that team is going to falter..People here have made every excuse in the book about why Drury left, GRier, Blah blah, Why we had to get rid of Campbell and listened to the ones the Sabres spewed out..Well we have what you wished for....A watered down nonplayoff version of a hockeyteam....

 

You say Drury and Brierre leaving didnt hurt the SAbres..LOL..You point out that Roy and Pominville have made up for thier losses in points, great but how bout the teams they went to..They have helped them which in turn has knocked us out...How bout the players that replaced Roy and Pominville on their old spots..LOL..Those are the players that have hurt the team..My point being is we should have tried to add, fix our weakness rather than dismember our team..Now you still have to fix a defense and add leadership..Dont tell me that we have it because if we did we wouldnt be blowing 2 goal leads during crunch time.....

The excuses I have read on this post are just that excuses for following your favorite team..I get it..I dont blame you for wanting to believe..But come on enough is enough...

Last Year

Briere - 95 Points Last year (32 Goals and 63 Assists) in 81 games

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...75&tab=crst

Drury - 69 Points Last Year (37 Goals and 32 Assists) in 77 Games

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...62&tab=crst

 

Total - 164 Points (69 Goals and 95 Assists)

 

This year

Pomminstein - 78 Points this year (27 Goals and 51 Assists) in 79 games (last year he had 68 points 34 goals, 34 Assists)

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...06&tab=crst

 

Roy - 77 Points this year (31 Goals and 46 Assists) in 75 games (last year 63 points 21 goals, 42 Assists)

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&am...85&tab=crst

 

Total - 155 Points (58 Goals and 97 Assists)

So yes it seems that they have covered for the points lost by the former captains, but have their replacements covered their points totals from last year, cause Roy and Pomminstein have improved only a bit over their point totals last year

 

This Year Vanek is

60 points (32 goals, 28 assists) in 79 games

compared to last year

84 points (43 goals, 41 assists) in 82 games

 

Just Vaneks drop in points is enough to wipe out the gains made by Roy and Pomminstein

[X. Benedict]

Hockey is a team game, no one player is going to win a Stanley CUp by themselves, however when you keep letting good players go even if some fans dont like what they are getting paid, sooner or later that team is going to falter..People here have made every excuse in the book about why Drury left, GRier, Blah blah, Why we had to get rid of Campbell and listened to the ones the Sabres spewed out..Well we have what you wished for....A watered down nonplayoff version of a hockeyteam....

 

You say Drury and Brierre leaving didnt hurt the SAbres..LOL..You point out that Roy and Pominville have made up for thier losses in points, great but how bout the teams they went to..They have helped them which in turn has knocked us out...How bout the players that replaced Roy and Pominville on their old spots..LOL..Those are the players that have hurt the team..My point being is we should have tried to add, fix our weakness rather than dismember our team..Now you still have to fix a defense and add leadership..Dont tell me that we have it because if we did we wouldnt be blowing 2 goal leads during crunch time.....

The excuses I have read on this post are just that excuses for following your favorite team..I get it..I dont blame you for wanting to believe..But come on enough is enough...

 

Glad to see someone is holding vaguely defined posters such as "You" responsible.

 

Nice job.

[That Aud Smell]

However, he is what we had too much of and what the Sharks had too little of.

 

Bingo.

 

I liked the guy a lot, too -- also thought he was a ton of fun to watch.

 

... Moving on.

[stenbaro]

Glad to see someone is holding vaguely defined posters such as "You" responsible.

 

Nice job.

I dont like "you" ..."you" is always wrong...LOL

[Bmwolf21]

Glad to see someone is holding vaguely defined posters such as "You" responsible.

 

Nice job.

Well you know what they say...