GAME DISCUSSION THREAD

[shack & duff]

I've criticized the defense (primarily thinking of our top pairing) but Vanek could do a little more in crunch time. He played 15 minutes, had one shot and one assist. He should seriously think about a 5 million dollar contribution to the Women's and Children's Hospital this year. I don't care that Kevin Lowe basically forced him to make 10 million this year. He's a man and should show some pride.

[carpandean]

You know Kotalik took a really dumb penalty. There is no excuse for it. However, if you see the replay, Hamrlik clearly dove. It bothers me that they call Roy for diving, but not others in the league. Watch the replay. Kotalik taps Hamrlik on the shin guard with his stick. Kotalik's stick is in the general vicinity, but it took a good 1-2 seconds for Hamrlik to start his dive forward. Kotalik should never have had his stick there in the first place, but wow Hamrlik dove.

I thought the same thing at the time, but with how good Montreal's PP is and when you are protecting a two goal lead late, you can't give the refs any excuse to blow the whistle. It was weak and he embellished, but Kotalik still put his stick into the shins of a guy going past him.

 

Regardless, this team has no guts. They just cannot hold on to a lead. ... The people and fans in Buffalo deserve much better than these heartless performances the last two games at home.

They were two hard-fought, well played games in which the Sabres took two goal leads against two of the best teams in the East through the first 50+ minutes. The team is young, lacks veteran leadership and has had breakdowns before this season, so when they start to give back a little, it takes them off their game. I wouldn't call them gutless; maybe emotionally fragile and immature. This week has had the highest highs and the lowest lows, but lets at least remember the good in there, too.

 

I am as pissed off as anyone that this is one more nail closing up the coffin, leaving just the slightest opening for air. However, I like to think about both this year and the future. Some of what I've seen this week in both the losses and the wins has shown me an exciting future with a change in team direction. Unfortunately, it has also shown some of our biggest weaknesses. I just hope the FO is seeing the same things.

[Bmwolf21]

I think that pretty much sums up his whole season, not just the last few games. Tallinder and Lydman have been absolutely awful this year. Not sure what it is. Maybe they miss Teppo to calm them down. I don't know what, but I'm not sure I want them out on the ice anymore in critical situations. Honestly, I'm not sure we could do any worse playing Weber and Sekera during those critical moments at the end of the game. Why not?

I was thinking the same thing. I don't know anymore - I never thought of Tallydman as a shutdown/"you're not going to score when we're on the ice" pair but I was never waiting for them to make mistakes. Now it's like a game of Russian Roulette - who's going to kill us with a bad turnover tonight? Tallinder, Lydman, Max - who else goes in that pool?

 

Honestly I'm so sick of seeing guys that are supposed to be veteran leaders let this team down. Like I said - if it's Paetsch, Weber, Sekera, even Funk out there making mistakes - I'm not cool with that, but I can understand it more. But WTF is going on in Tallinder's or Lydman's head when they stand next to a guy and not cover him? WTF was Tallinder thinking with that backhanded flip in front of his net last night, or the turnover in front of his net tonight? This is basic hockey stuff, and they're panicking like a couple rookies. Either that or they're so overconfident that they think they can get away with doing anything with the puck. I don't know which it is, but it's got to be rectified.

[carpandean]

I'll give you the age comparison, but Roy's got over 300 career games (267 regular-season NHL games and 34 playoff games) on his resume compared to 34 for Sekera and 121 for Paetsch.

Yeah, the age is a closer comparison. Tallinder doesn't have too many more games than Roy, though over a couple more seasons (difference is probably injuries during those seasons). However, Lydman has almost 550 NHL games and still does what he does. Mostly, though, it's that Roy does so much else for any player, much less one so young, that I give him some slack on the occasional bad play.

[Bmwolf21]

Yeah, the age is a closer comparison. Tallinder doesn't have too many more games than Roy, though over a couple more seasons (difference is probably injuries during those seasons). However, Lydman has almost 550 NHL games and still does what he does. Mostly, though, it's that Roy does so much else for any player, much less one so young, that I give him some slack on the occasional bad play.

Yeah, I was flailing a little after the OT goal and threw Roy in there with Tallydman. I can't say I can overlook the mistake, but he gets some slack with the way he played earlier and especially how he's played down the stretch.

[Ohiofan]

Same here. I am absolutely stunned, disgusted, frustrated, enraged.

 

I'm angry! I'm spitting angry! I'm like a tornado of anger, swirling about!

:D

 

Me Too.

 

The tornado of anger part.

[Bmwolf21]

:D

 

Me Too.

 

The tornado of anger part.

There was a promo for Kicking and Screaming on TBS that ran while I was posting, and that's where I got that. I figured it fit pretty well...

[carpandean]

Interesting ice-time stats for defense:

 

Total TOI:

Sekera 27:13

Lydman 25:33

Weber 24:13

Tallinder 21:38

(Paetch and Pratt at about 10:00)

 

EV TOI:

Weber 24:13

Sekera 23:11

Tallinder 18:37

Lydman 17:53

 

So, Toni (PK and PP) and Andrej (PP) get the most special teams time with Tallinder getting some PK time. However, Weber and Sekera get the most even strength time. It really does make you wonder why they get trusted for so much of the game, but not the key situations late. Can Sekeber really be any worse on the PK than Tallydman? Obviously Weber isn't a PP quarterback -- that will be Sekera's role -- but neither can kill penalties?

[carpandean]

Apparently, Kotalik was the only one who didn't get this message:

 

As long as they stay out of the box, I think they will pull it off.

Plain and simple, stay out of the penalty box. This team is absolutely lethal on the PP, and we gave up a PP Hat trick to Plekanec the last time we played them. Do not take any unnecessary penalties as these guys will kill us. [snip] BUT DO NOT TAKE A PENALTY!!!!! Discipline, discipline, discipline tonight boys.

As already stated earlier; HUGE game, STAY out of the Penalty Box this team will kill you

That cannot be stressed enough:

Stay out of the penalty box.

Stay out of the penalty box.

Stay out of the penalty box.

Stay out of the penalty box.

Stay out of the penalty box.

Stay out of the penalty box.

 

If we take stupid penalties, it's going to take a Herculean effort from the PKers and Miller to win this game, and I don't think they have it in them. They HAVE to stay out of the box to even have a shot tonight.

STAY OUT OF THE PENALTY BOX!!!! And we have a chance of winning tonight.

[LabattBlue]

Game thoughts...

 

-I can't describe how much I'd like to see every blueliner gone except for Paetsch, Sekera & Weber. I've supported Lydman when he has been bashed here, but there is no excuse for his poor play down the stretch. For all I care, they can ship out Tallinder, Lydman, Spacek, Kalinin & Teppo(in case he shows any interest in coming back). They have seen the best these so called vets have to offer and it's not good enough.

 

-This is very premature, but I'm already thinking about when Vanek will no longer be a Sabre because of this stupid contract and his mediocre play. He is one of those players you love to hate when he is not scoring.

 

-Sometime over the weekend I'm going to lookup how many 2 goal leads the Sabres have blown at home this season. Since 1/1 it seems to be a ridiculous amount of times this has happened.

 

-It's stupid penalties like the one Kotalik took with 3 minutes to go in the game which makes me want him gone along with Max & Connolly.

 

- 4-7-3 in their last 14 home games. You need look no further to find out why this team is where they are today.

[tasker48b]

* Blowing a pair of 3-1 3rd period leads, AT HOME, in the critical stretch drive, in the latest three games. Paige Mike and the Mechanics 'cause Sabres fans are hoping for a miracle at this stage.

[Claude Balls]

Well I was at the Amerks game tonight and was scoreboard watching. They show the score at 3-1 Buff in the 3rd. Money in the bank I'm thinking. Next time it comes up, 3-3. Wtf, are you kidding me, not again. Then the final comes up 3-4 Mont. I just laughed to myself. What a joke this team has become. Glad I didn't have to watch it. On the other hand, I got to watch the Amerks go up 4-0 only to give up 4 straight. At least they pulled it out in the shootout. The AHL uses 5 shooters in the SO and Tyler Plante stopped all 5 shooters, and the last Manitoba shooter was the old fart Mike Keane.

 

Side notes from the Amerks game. I said Kostka didn't impress me Wed night, well I guess he didn't impress Cunny either. He got the scratcharoo in his 2nd game. Derek Whitmore did play, and he started. On that first shift he took a charging or boarding penalty a minute into the game and then only had 3 or 4 shifts the rest of the night. He was one of the SO guys, but went for the fiver and got it up too high right into the goalies stomach. He definitely seemed over anxious, but that's understandable. I do think Jordan Henry will have a nice NHL career for Florida. He was the 1st star with 1G, 1A. He can skate and plays a physical style for a d-man.

 

It's a sad, sad time for hockey in WNY.

[Kristian]

I'm fine with it.

 

IMHO, at this time of year, I would WANT the teams weaknesses showcased as much as possible, so that the front office will be forced into action this off-season.

 

Squeaking into the playoffs by a thread and getting killed in the first round, would just allow Larry the Moron to claim everything was fine, and we just got some bad luck.

 

I know it sounds somewhat morbid, but at this point the worst thing ever for this team, would be for them to get a free pass.

 

All of this is no guarantee front office will do anything though, as "off-season" in Sabre language roughly translates into "holiday".

 

Then again, so does "regular season" though, so we really have no clue where stand.

[Chief Enabler]

I wish our pre-season predictions couldve been salvaged. I am not a Montreal fan, but I do like the way Carboneau coaches the club over there, aggressive without necessarily muscle just size, very good passing team this year. I do remember them being my team to beat early this year.

 

The Huet/Price situation was a bonus to them probably. And Hossa would-ve been an interesting pickup, but they did nothing. I will fancy the Habs over the rest of the Eastern teams this year, mostly because I hate the rest <_<

 

BMWolf! I am not looking for a Miller/Price arguement here B-)

[BuffalOhio]

Buffalo News reports: 'It was the sixth time this season the Sabres had a two-goal lead and lost.'

[wjag]

I wish our pre-season predictions couldve been salvaged. I am not a Montreal fan, but I do like the way Carboneau coaches the club over there, aggressive without necessarily muscle just size, very good passing team this year. I do remember them being my team to beat early this year.

 

The Huet/Price situation was a bonus to them probably. And Hossa would-ve been an interesting pickup, but they did nothing. I will fancy the Habs over the rest of the Eastern teams this year, mostly because I hate the rest <_<

 

BMWolf! I am not looking for a Miller/Price arguement here B-)

I had them at 91 points. I think I'm just about dead-on.. Although I did think that was enough to sneak in..

[Bmwolf21]

I wish our pre-season predictions couldve been salvaged. I am not a Montreal fan, but I do like the way Carboneau coaches the club over there, aggressive without necessarily muscle just size, very good passing team this year. I do remember them being my team to beat early this year.

 

The Huet/Price situation was a bonus to them probably. And Hossa would-ve been an interesting pickup, but they did nothing. I will fancy the Habs over the rest of the Eastern teams this year, mostly because I hate the rest <_<

 

BMWolf! I am not looking for a Miller/Price arguement here B-)

What argument you want to make? ;)

 

Seriously, this was the first time I really focused on Price, and I came away overall impressed with a very young goalie - more so than I was with the last over-hyped rookie keeper to beat the Sabres (Cam Ward.) I thought Price was generally under control most of the time but until the Sabres got a couple in the third, I didn't think they really tested him that much - I thought the Habs did a very good job of keeping most of the Sabres' shooters to the outside and kept Buffalo's good chances to a minimum.

 

FWIW, I thought Buffalo did a really good job of the same thing until the third period, but when Montreal got going our defensive zone play got pretty scrambley and we got away from what got us into the lead through the first 45-50 minutes.

[carpandean]

we got away from what got us into the lead through the first 45-50 minutes.

Exactly. As I said earlier in the thread, I loved what I say for the first 56 minutes. It wasn't a trap defense, but it was effective and physical. It held us in a position to win through the first two and then our offense got their inevitable mini-explosion to give us the "win". If we had continued to play that way even after Kotalik took his lazy penalty against the #1 PP in the league (have I said that enough?), they would have skated off winners at 4-2. They have seemed to be embracing this new style over the past few games and it has been very effective right up until their meltdown. With the right off-season moves and I complete embrace of this strategy, next season could be much more fun to watch. If we're not going to make it, then as Kristian said, hopefully the FO will be able to clearly see our weak areas.

[Bmwolf21]

I put little to no stock in Jerry Sullivan's hockey sense, but his column today I think hit on a big part of the team's problem.

 

LINK

 

There's a fragile quality to this team. No team is better at winning 10-1 or 7-2. But get them in a close game and look out. At home, they're an embarrassment. They perform like frightened little boys, as if afraid to make a mistake and bring down the wrath of their loving fans.

 

After the meltdown here against Ottawa, Ryan Miller said the Sabres are too concerned about entertaining people at home and need to "muck and grind more" in crunch time. He shouldn't be throwing stones after his recent sorry play (the stones would beat him high to the glove side), but the cerebral goalie has a point.

 

Miller was suggesting that his team isn't tough enough in the big moments. That's basically what Chris Drury said after last year's final playoff loss - bleeding from his chin - when he said some of his teammates didn't understand the commitment required to be a Stanley Cup champion.

 

I hate to bring up Drury. It's against protocol, I know. Heaven forbid we should suggest that too many gutsy players have been expunged from this team: Mike Grier, Jay McKee, Brian Campbell, Drury, Daniel Briere. The Sabres didn't blow two-goal leads with those guys. They came back from them. But sorry, I digress.

Ruff said the Sabres don't have the type of players to do the mucking along the boards. "You have to go get some of those players,"? he said. Ruff said the current roster had been constructed around creative players. He said it's not that easy to change a team's competitive personality.

 

It's true. The Sabres were built for speed and finesse, for the less constrictive style of the "new,"? post-lockout NHL. But it's painfully clear that speed and finesse aren't enough. This team needs to get mentally and physically tougher. It's not about age. Getting older hasn't made any difference with Max Afinogenov, has it?

[SCSabresFan!]

I really miss McKee. He was like having two goalies - great shot blocker.

[Bmwolf21]

I really miss McKee. He was like having two goalies - great shot blocker.

I miss the days that our defense and forwards regularly dropped to block shots. You could always count on guys like McKee and Drury (and Grier, but I suspect he went down a lot because he wasn't a very good skater) to block shots, but in the 05-06 playoff run it was infectious, there were guys dropping to block shots all the time. Now guys are tentative and throwing half-assed stick and skate attempts into the shooting lanes and I think they're making it harder on the defense and goalie by doing that. Either block it or GTF out of the way.

 

Mckee? I think Ryan misses him too. This is from ESPN.com during the 05-06 playoffs:

Rookie netminder Ryan Miller has been the beneficiary of McKee's ability and willingness to stand in front of pucks being blasted toward the Sabre net.

 

"It's almost like a partnership," Miller said. "I know Jay's going to stand in the shooting lane and I can pay attention to other options."

 

In other words, Miller has enough confidence that McKee's not going to bail out so the goalie can cheat toward another player if there's a pass or take a different angle on the shot, increasing the chance the puck won't end up in the net.

 

"If you don't go for the block, that's when goalies get mad," Miller explained. "I don't know what it is. There's something about him."

 

Blocking shots is both functional and emotional.

 

Like a big hit or a timely goal, a blocked shot, especially while killing a penalty, can give a team a tremendous emotional lift. For a team like Buffalo that thrives on the turnover and the counter-attack, a blocked shot is often a conduit to a scoring chance at the other end of the ice.

 

"You have to block shots for our system to work," Miller said.

[inkman]

...gutsy players...Brian Campbell, Daniel Briere.

:rolleyes: Umm...okay, Jerry...

[carpandean]

I miss the days that our defense and forwards regularly dropped to block shots. You could always count on guys like McKee and Drury (and Grier, but I suspect he went down a lot because he wasn't a very good skater) to block shots, but in the 05-06 playoff run it was infectious, there were guys dropping to block shots all the time. Now guys are tentative and throwing half-assed stick and skate attempts into the shooting lanes and I think they're making it harder on the defense and goalie by doing that. Either block it or GTF out of the way.

Weber dropped to make a couple big blocks. He is a step in the right direction.

 

Also, on the PK, I've seen a lot this season from guys like Roy, Pommer and Hecht sacrificing themselves when necessary.

[inkman]

I'm angry! I'm spitting angry! I'm like a tornado of anger, swirling about!

I'm indifferent. Unaffected, I let go. Lost in oblivion. Dark and silent and complete. I found freedom.

[Kristian]

The Sabres didn't blow two-goal leads with those guys. They came back from them. But sorry, I digress.

[/b]

 

 

I'd say that's remembering last season on the rosey side of things.

 

I can't remember the number of times we dropped two goals leads last year, only to turn it on again for 5 minutes and score the winner.

 

Granted, we'd win those games and didn't usually find ways to lose them, but to suggest that the team last year never dropped a two goal lead, as the writer does, is just distorting the facts.

 

That said, the current team is spineless and mentally fragile, and something desperately needs to change with regards to the line-up.

 

We don't need scoring, we need defense, grit, and in more situations than I can recall, we have needed goaltending too.