Grind it out? Miller says yes, Ruff says we can't

[Bmwolf21]

LINK

Miller tells it like it is

 

I would have liked Ryan Miller to take a little more responsibility after Tuesday's meltdown against Ottawa. But at the same time, his teammates probably deserved to get thrown under at least one wheel of the bus by their goaltender after they crumbled at the first sign of adversity.

 

Miller then got on a tangent about how the team has to stop trying to entertain and has to "muck and grind" more in crunch time. Told of those comments Wednesday, Lindy Ruff didn't really agree.

 

"We've been outside where the league has been. We've been a very good offensive team," Ruff said. "We have those types of players. You have to get rid of those players if you want to become a grinding up and down the walls-type of team. You have to go get some of those players. Our strength has been that we have some very creative guys and that's allowed us to win a lot of games in the previous years ... Sometimes you can turn that around and it can be your weakness because typically those guys aren't your best defensive players.''

 

No kidding. This team needs to get tougher up front and have fewer "creative" softies on forward lines like Maxim Afinogenov (holy cow, I sound like Don Cherry there). Did you know Max has two -- count 'em, two -- goals at home all season? Isn't it time to let Clarke MacArthur get six more games of NHL experience and forget about useless Max?

 

I know you're all ready to dump on Miller (that's what the comments section below is for!). And like Bucky Gleason wrote Wednesday, Miller is having a wretched March. Part of me says he needs to shut up, mind his own house in the crease and get the job done there. But on the other hand, he's definitely got a point and I like hearing one voice in this dressing room that tells it like it is. Miller is the guy with the spot-on analysis almost every time.

 

---Mike Harrington

 

First, no disagreement that Miller needs to be better if they are going to even have a prayer of making the playoffs. His numbers have been sliding in the last couple weeks and he needs to give the team a couple good, strong solid performances to help get their confidence back.

 

I found the disagreement between Miller and Ruff about the team needing to muck it up a little in crunch time insightful and a little disturbing. While Lindy's comments don't give any indication to his preference, he pretty much comes out and reiterates that we are going to play an offense-heavy, finesse-style game because that is how the roster is set up. It also seems to beg for more defensively responsible blueliners, since he admits that those offensive players are great defensively.

 

Thoughts?

[R_Dudley]

LINK

First, no disagreement that Miller needs to be better if they are going to even have a prayer of making the playoffs. His numbers have been sliding in the last couple weeks and he needs to give the team a couple good, strong solid performances to help get their confidence back.

 

I found the disagreement between Miller and Ruff about the team needing to muck it up a little in crunch time insightful and a little disturbing. While Lindy's comments don't give any indication to his preference, he pretty much comes out and reiterates that we are going to play an offense-heavy, finesse-style game because that is how the roster is set up. It also seems to beg for more defensively responsible blueliners, since he admits that those offensive players are great defensively.

 

Thoughts?

 

Great information. From my perspective it is encouraging that they understand what we all have been seeing and they know the reason for it. Now the only thing needed is a plan to address it and I think that includes an exclusive farm team playing the same style(see my other post on Rochester game).

 

Second it shows me the team is not all on the same page as to what we needs to done. Now how many other players side with Lindy vs. Miller. BTW Lindy is spot on as to his assessment with what we got.

 

Okay Now management please let us know you have a plan or that you are putting one together to address....

[inkman]

LINK

I found the disagreement between Miller and Ruff about the team needing to muck it up a little in crunch time insightful and a little disturbing.

Holy #%^$#!!!! A little disturbing??? Lindy doesn't think they have the players to grind it out. Who the hell are Gaustad, Hecht, Bernier, Mair, Kaleta, Stafford, and Kotalik? Finesse players??? I've never called for Lindy's head but I'm really starting to wonder if he's lost touch with his team.

[apuszczalowski]

Guess what this means, more fo the same old, same old from the Front Office when it comes to players, and forget about the dream most here have of getting a tougher more physical team. Although I'm sure its a good thing that the goalie sees eye to eye with the head coach on the direction of the team, going into his last year of his contract

[wjag]

Guess what this means, more fo the same old, same old from the Front Office when it comes to players, and forget about the dream most here have of getting a tougher more physical team. Although I'm sure its a good thing that the goalie sees eye to eye with the head coach on the direction of the team, going into his last year of his contract

I've said this in other places. We already know what next year's team looks like. Outside of an addition or two, these are our guys for next year. If Lindy says they ain't tough, who am I to disagree. Next year won't be as brutal as this year though. Our expectations will have been sufficiently dampened. No playoffs for several years ahead with this crew. They simply aren't tough enough. And when they try to be, they break.

[carpandean]

"We've been outside where the league has been. We've been a very good offensive team," Ruff said. "We have those types of players. You have to get rid of those players if you want to become a grinding up and down the walls-type of team. You have to go get some of those players. Our strength has been that we have some very creative guys and that's allowed us to win a lot of games in the previous years ... Sometimes you can turn that around and it can be your weakness because typically those guys aren't your best defensive players.''

I think the Campbell trade for Bernier (and a first round pic) was doing exactly that. Bernier is a big grinder who isn't afraid to mix it up along the boards. He also has a lot of offensive potential. As Ink pointed out, we also have a lot of other grinders up front that have been moving up in the system. Gaustad is a big boy (second biggest on the team) and will grind with the best of them. He's a solid third line center/powerplay specialist, who is capable of moving up to higher lines when needed. Mair, despite his small size, has always been a willing grinder and the infusion of Kaleta has certainly sparked new life into him. Guys like Hecht, Paille, Stafford are willing able to grind as well. While Roy and Pominville may not be the biggest, toughest guys, they are not complete pansies either and bring great two-way play with them. Vanek ... well ... he could be physical and sometimes is, but like his scoring ability, needs to become more consistent.

 

However, that's up front. On the blue line, we have been almost completely void of true grinders for a long time. Spacek is capable and sometimes willing. In fact, as the front line has gotten tougher and played more physical, he seems to have stepped up his physical game, too. Pratt is certainly more willing than most of the rest of them, though I wouldn't say he's a dominant grinder. Weber probably has the most potential to take over this role. He is big, physical and defensively-minded. The rest are definitely not. More often than not, they will let the forwards go in first and, even then, won't hit them hard. We don't need/want to have all grinders (that's why the Sharks grabbed Campbell), but certainly need to move more in that direction.

[inkman]

On the blue line, we have been almost completely void of true grinders for a long time.

That was creeping into my head as I was furiously typing my last post.

 

Tallinder - never met a check he could nearly avoid

Lydman - big enough body, apparently not willing enough

Kalinin - see Lydman

Paetsch - tries to play the body but gets manhandled at time

Sekera - see Peatsch

Spacek - plays physical at times but it's spotty

Pratt - old school physical game, won't smash your face into the boards but puts his body on yours

Weber - Scott Stevens type hitter who plays the body almost exclusively

[stenbaro]

LINK

First, no disagreement that Miller needs to be better if they are going to even have a prayer of making the playoffs. His numbers have been sliding in the last couple weeks and he needs to give the team a couple good, strong solid performances to help get their confidence back.

 

I found the disagreement between Miller and Ruff about the team needing to muck it up a little in crunch time insightful and a little disturbing. While Lindy's comments don't give any indication to his preference, he pretty much comes out and reiterates that we are going to play an offense-heavy, finesse-style game because that is how the roster is set up. It also seems to beg for more defensively responsible blueliners, since he admits that those offensive players are great defensively.

 

Thoughts?

I have grown tired of Ryan MIllers act...Shut up..Stop worrying about what type of style the team in front of you is playing and do what you are payed to do..STOP THE PUCK FROM GOING INTO THE NET!!!!!!!! If he spent as much time going over his weaknesses as he does opening his pie hole he would be better off...I am on the verge of not wanting him around....

[frisky]

I think next year between Weber, Pratt (a big IF on signing him with this mgmt), and Spacek, I think that could be enough physicality there to balance out Sekera, Tallinder, Lydman, Paetsch. However, I think the forwards need to be more defensively responsible. IE don't stop moving your legs and start sliding on the backcheck until the goal light is on. I also think as a group this year in comparison to last year and more the year before, the players have been less willing to give it up to block shots before the get to Miller. I don't have statistics on it but it's my impression.

 

Additionally, perhaps next training camp they should also refocus on some of the basics of the game of hockey. Some of the veterens seem to have lost touch with those which end up in goals.

 

At this point, I think tanking the rest of the season to improve our draft position in a fairly deep draft would be the best way to go especially with a few high picks in the early rounds.

[Bmwolf21]

I have grown tired of Ryan MIllers act...Shut up..Stop worrying about what type of style the team in front of you is playing and do what you are payed to do..STOP THE PUCK FROM GOING INTO THE NET!!!!!!!! If he spent as much time going over his weaknesses as he does opening his pie hole he would be better off...I am on the verge of not wanting him around....

:rolleyes:

 

Explain to me what is wrong with what he said? Is it not true that this team seems to have no ability or dedication to grind out tight games at crunch time? Is it not true that we get ourselves in trouble by always looking for the pretty play instead of chipping the puck off the glass and out, or looking for an extra pass in the offensive end? Yes, Miller has areas to work on in his game. This whole team does. There isn't a single player on this team, Pominville and Roy included, that has been playing flawless hockey.

 

Frankly I'm sick of hearing the same BS from the same people after every game - scintillating stuff like ?it did look awful at the end,? Lydman said. ?We just need to learn from those mistakes and get better.?

 

I'm glad someone is speaking up with some honesty about what's going on with this team, because we're all sitting here wondering how a team who needs as many points as possible cannot get their act together in the frigging homestretch.

 

I think next year between Weber, Pratt (a big IF on signing him with this mgmt), and Spacek, I think that could be enough physicality there to balance out Sekera, Tallinder, Lydman, Paetsch. However, I think the forwards need to be more defensively responsible. IE don't stop moving your legs and start sliding on the backcheck until the goal light is on. I also think as a group this year in comparison to last year and more the year before, the players have been less willing to give it up to block shots before the get to Miller. I don't have statistics on it but it's my impression.

 

Additionally, perhaps next training camp they should also refocus on some of the basics of the game of hockey. Some of the veterens seem to have lost touch with those which end up in goals.

Some good points, frisky. I was reading an old ESPN piece on Jay McKee from the 05-06 season and it talked about how McKee and the Sabres did such a great job blocking shots, and I was thinking how I cannot remember the last time I saw a Sabre slide out and block a shot. I see guys do it to our shooters - but then again our point men are pretty predictable and it looks easy to get into their shooting lanes without leaving their feet.

[inkman]

...I am on the verge of not wanting him around....

 

I think this is the second thing we have agreed on.

 

At this point, I think tanking the rest of the season...

 

I think the players are way ahead of you on this one...

[Buffalo Wings]

I think next year between Weber, Pratt (a big IF on signing him with this mgmt), and Spacek, I think that could be enough physicality there to balance out Sekera, Tallinder, Lydman, Paetsch. However, I think the forwards need to be more defensively responsible. IE don't stop moving your legs and start sliding on the backcheck until Miller makes the save.

 

Fixed...

 

At this point, I think tanking the rest of the season to improve our draft position in a fairly deep draft would be the best way to go especially with a few high picks in the early rounds.

I'm on board with the playoffs being virtually unreachable, but tanking the season when they're still a mathematical possibility?

 

<_<

[apuszczalowski]

I have grown tired of Ryan MIllers act...Shut up..Stop worrying about what type of style the team in front of you is playing and do what you are payed to do..STOP THE PUCK FROM GOING INTO THE NET!!!!!!!! If he spent as much time going over his weaknesses as he does opening his pie hole he would be better off...I am on the verge of not wanting him around....

Another good player we will run out of town because he "isn't good enough and the team will be better without him"

[X. Benedict]

I have grown tired of Ryan MIllers act...Shut up..Stop worrying about what type of style the team in front of you is playing and do what you are payed to do..STOP THE PUCK FROM GOING INTO THE NET!!!!!!!! If he spent as much time going over his weaknesses as he does opening his pie hole he would be better off...I am on the verge of not wanting him around....

:lol:

 

What exactly are Miller's weaknesses?

[inkman]

:lol:

 

What exactly are Miller's weaknesses?

Long walks on the beach, white roses and chocolate?

[R_Dudley]

Holy #%^$#!!!! A little disturbing??? Lindy doesn't think they have the players to grind it out. Who the hell are Gaustad, Hecht, Bernier, Mair, Kaleta, Stafford, and Kotalik? Finesse players??? I've never called for Lindy's head but I'm really starting to wonder if he's lost touch with his team.

 

Or is he using a tactic we have seen before trying to call out motivate the players he does have who should be offended by that comment ? And if they are not do we still want them ?

 

Lost Touch ? Here I disagree, Lindy did not just turn stupid overnight, I do question how motivated/much he cares because he may not have been on board with changes that have happened but I cannot discount some of the very strategic things he does with cards he has been dealth over the years here.

 

NoBody circles the zambonies better...

[stenbaro]

:rolleyes:

 

Explain to me what is wrong with what he said? Is it not true that this team seems to have no ability or dedication to grind out tight games at crunch time? Is it not true that we get ourselves in trouble by always looking for the pretty play instead of chipping the puck off the glass and out, or looking for an extra pass in the offensive end? Yes, Miller has areas to work on in his game. This whole team does. There isn't a single player on this team, Pominville and Roy included, that has been playing flawless hockey.

 

Frankly I'm sick of hearing the same BS from the same people after every game - scintillating stuff like ?it did look awful at the end,? Lydman said. ?We just need to learn from those mistakes and get better.?

 

I'm glad someone is speaking up with some honesty about what's going on with this team, because we're all sitting here wondering how a team who needs as many points as possible cannot get their act together in the frigging homestretch.

Some good points, frisky. I was reading an old ESPN piece on Jay McKee from the 05-06 season and it talked about how McKee and the Sabres did such a great job blocking shots, and I was thinking how I cannot remember the last time I saw a Sabre slide out and block a shot. I see guys do it to our shooters - but then again our point men are pretty predictable and it looks easy to get into their shooting lanes without leaving their feet.

Before he throws stones at other players he should fix his problems..When he fixes whatever his problem is this year then he can open his mouth..Ever since he decided to be the spokesman for the team his game has gone south..Thats what I think is wrong with what he said..Maybe he is right but I dont look at any of the content of what he says till he plays well..

[stenbaro]

Another good player we will run out of town because he "isn't good enough and the team will be better without him"

He would be the first player I even thought of trying to run out of town..I wanted Campbell Drury and all of the above..But a player who is playing like crap calling his team out is funny...

[apuszczalowski]

Before he throws stones at other players he should fix his problems..When he fixes whatever his problem is this year then he can open his mouth..Ever since he decided to be the spokesman for the team his game has gone south..Thats what I think is wrong with what he said..Maybe he is right but I dont look at any of the content of what he says till he plays well..

Maybe thats one of the problems with his game, their finesse playing style is leaving him to have to face too many 1 on 1 shots, or they are leaving guys open for way to long to take the best shot on him. Maybe if they played a more muck and grind type game, Miller wouldn't be left on an island to have to save them, instead of just standing around letting pucks get redirected off of them and not blocking shots.

[Bmwolf21]

Before he throws stones at other players he should fix his problems..When he fixes whatever his problem is this year then he can open his mouth..Ever since he decided to be the spokesman for the team his game has gone south..Thats what I think is wrong with what he said..Maybe he is right but I dont look at any of the content of what he says till he plays well..

Apus and X already already covered the "fix his problems/weaknesses" aspect.

 

But I get it. Don't like the messenger, ignore the message. Must be an election year.

[stenbaro]

Maybe thats one of the problems with his game, their finesse playing style is leaving him to have to face too many 1 on 1 shots, or they are leaving guys open for way to long to take the best shot on him. Maybe if they played a more muck and grind type game, Miller wouldn't be left on an island to have to save them, instead of just standing around letting pucks get redirected off of them and not blocking shots.

He has to make those saves on a consistent basis..He isnt gonna stop everyone but he isnt considered an average goaltender by anyone in the league..His agent is going to want superstar money..He needs to be way more consistent with his saves...I missed the game last night so I cant comment on how he looked however I will look back on this year and my thoughts will be how he regressed..Maybe the other teams figured out where to shoot on him..If so he needs to fix it...