Disappointment

[Buffalo Wings]

I said back in October that the players on this roster needed to step it up. I thought the talent was there and with Lindy running the ship and a solid goaltender, we'd be just fine. Not the #1 team in the league, but certainly playoff-bound.

 

The only players that I thought performed like they needed to were Pominville, Roy, and Vanek. Kaleta has been a good addition - the type of enforcer they need on this team (someone please convince Lindy that Andrew Peters is worthless). But the players I thought needed to raise their game - Kotalik, Connolly, and Max - never showed up. I know Connolly & Max were injured for a time, but how often have we heard that? Kotalik looked like all he wanted to do was have someone set him up for a one-timer. I still love Miller, but he's disappointed me with his play - perhaps because of the number of minutes on the ice, but I figured he would need to be Vezina-quality to keep this team afloat.

 

The team has the talent to win, but it doesn't look like they've got enough heart. I'd rather have a group of 3rd-liners that gives a 110% effort each night than a collection of wannabe all-stars who try to do everything themselves. I think the team needs a minor overhaul to rid themselves of the dead weight, but they need to re-establish the leadership. I like guys like Hecht, Miller, Gaustad, Roy, and Spacek as potential leaders of this team. Those leaders need to instill that the team needs to play all 60 minutes.

 

I know the season isn't officially over and I hope the Sabres make a run and sneak into the playoffs somehow, but I can't imagine that losses like the one we saw last night give them a lot of confidence. I honestly thought the comeback win over TB was going to be a springboard into the postseason, but they came out with a lifeless effort against a lesser team and then blew a golden opportunity to put away the hated Senators. These types of losses have to eat away at you.

[apuszczalowski]

I said back in October that the players on this roster needed to step it up. I thought the talent was there and with Lindy running the ship and a solid goaltender, we'd be just fine. Not the #1 team in the league, but certainly playoff-bound.

 

The only players that I thought performed like they needed to were Pominville, Roy, and Vanek. Kaleta has been a good addition - the type of enforcer they need on this team (someone please convince Lindy that Andrew Peters is worthless). But the players I thought needed to raise their game - Kotalik, Connolly, and Max - never showed up. I know Connolly & Max were injured for a time, but how often have we heard that? Kotalik looked like all he wanted to do was have someone set him up for a one-timer. I still love Miller, but he's disappointed me with his play - perhaps because of the number of minutes on the ice, but I figured he would need to be Vezina-quality to keep this team afloat.

 

The team has the talent to win, but it doesn't look like they've got enough heart. I'd rather have a group of 3rd-liners that gives a 110% effort each night than a collection of wannabe all-stars who try to do everything themselves. I think the team needs a minor overhaul to rid themselves of the dead weight, but they need to re-establish the leadership. I like guys like Hecht, Miller, Gaustad, Roy, and Spacek as potential leaders of this team. Those leaders need to instill that the team needs to play all 60 minutes.

 

I know the season isn't officially over and I hope the Sabres make a run and sneak into the playoffs somehow, but I can't imagine that losses like the one we saw last night give them a lot of confidence. I honestly thought the comeback win over TB was going to be a springboard into the postseason, but they came out with a lifeless effort against a lesser team and then blew a golden opportunity to put away the hated Senators. These types of losses have to eat away at you.

I somewhat disagree with some of what you said, Vanek has not performed like he needed to. Not that it was his fault though, but with the huge contract and the loss on offence of Briere, he had huge shoes to fill, and he has barely filled his own shoes from last year. He needed to get better and become a top tier player, and he hasn't yet. (like I said, its not all his fault, the FO put alot of pressure on him and gave him some huge shoes to fill)

 

As for Kaleta, he has been a good addition, but to call him an enforcer? He hits sure, and maybe its the fact that we barely see hitting being Sabres fans, but he is not an enforcer yet. But I know, he is so much better then Peters who is worthless :rolleyes: but who would you rather see in the box, or in the press box for the team, Peters, or Kaleta?

 

Miller hasn't disapointed me. He has had to play alot of games and has been relied on too much and hasn't been helped by whats infront of him. He hasn't been great, but his play is hardly the reason why the Sabres have struggled.

 

I also don't think the problem is heart, the problem is talent right now, they are relying on 2nd and 3rd tier talent to play at a top tier level. How many players on the Sabres would be 1st liners on another NHL team? They have alot of "potential" talent, but that isn't going to help now

[Mike Oxhurtz]

The losses of Drury & Briere have really hurt this team. Drury & Briere are the type that make the players around them better. With those two gone, this year everyone zeroed in on players like Vanek, Max & Connolly. In my opinion, we should cut Connolly because of his injury problems. I like Connolly a lot, but he's been out most of the time over the past 3 seasons, so it's time to invest in another player. We need help on Defense, so cut Connolly loose and use his salary for a solid d-man.

[LabattBlue]

The losses of Drury & Briere have really hurt this team. Drury & Briere are the type that make the players around them better. With those two gone, this year everyone zeroed in on players like Vanek, Max & Connolly. In my opinion, we should cut Connolly because of his injury problems. I like Connolly a lot, but he's been out most of the time over the past 3 seasons, so it's time to invest in another player. We need help on Defense, so cut Connolly loose and use his salary for a solid d-man.

BS. The loss of Briere & Drury didn't seem to bother Roy or Pominville. Max has regressed to the old Max and needs to be shipped out of town for whatever DR can get, Connolly was signed to a contract at a time when he was out of action and continues to prove that he can't stay healthy and Vanek(much as I predicted) has collapsed below the weight of a 50 million dollar contract.

[Bmwolf21]

BS. The loss of Briere & Drury didn't seem to bother Roy or Pominville. Max has regressed to the old Max and needs to be shipped out of town for whatever DR can get, Connolly was signed to a contract at a time when he was out of action and continues to prove that he can't stay healthy and Vanek(much as I predicted) has collapsed below the weight of a 50 million dollar contract.

The thing that really bothered me (and a few others, IIRC) last offseason was the idea that the team was going to rely heavily on Max and Connolly - Max improving and not regressing, and Connolly being healthy and contributing all year. They also gambled that Kalinin (and co.) could offset the loss of Campbell, but it turns out that all three of those gambles were ill-advised. We can point to Max's injury problems, but the reality is he wasn't playing well when healthy; Connolly, while a special talent offensively, is just too fragile to be counted on; and Kalinin is as much of a mental midget as we feared.

[Buffalo Wings]

I somewhat disagree with some of what you said, Vanek has not performed like he needed to. Not that it was his fault though, but with the huge contract and the loss on offence of Briere, he had huge shoes to fill, and he has barely filled his own shoes from last year. He needed to get better and become a top tier player, and he hasn't yet. (like I said, its not all his fault, the FO put alot of pressure on him and gave him some huge shoes to fill)

 

As for Kaleta, he has been a good addition, but to call him an enforcer? He hits sure, and maybe its the fact that we barely see hitting being Sabres fans, but he is not an enforcer yet. But I know, he is so much better then Peters who is worthless :rolleyes: but who would you rather see in the box, or in the press box for the team, Peters, or Kaleta?

 

Miller hasn't disapointed me. He has had to play alot of games and has been relied on too much and hasn't been helped by whats infront of him. He hasn't been great, but his play is hardly the reason why the Sabres have struggled.

 

I also don't think the problem is heart, the problem is talent right now, they are relying on 2nd and 3rd tier talent to play at a top tier level. How many players on the Sabres would be 1st liners on another NHL team? They have alot of "potential" talent, but that isn't going to help now

To be honest, I was on the fence with Vanek. I didn't want to say he was a disappointment because he had a lot of pressure and defenders focusing on him. So while he probably could have done more, I wasn't disappointed with his performance over the year.

 

Regarding Kaleta, I should say that he's the best enforcer we've got. He seems to be more in the mold of Sean Avery than a Donald Brashear, since he can hit guys and get under their skin, not to mention score a goal or two.

 

I said Miller was a disappointment only because of a number of "soft" goals he's let in. Completely agree that his defense hasn't helped him very much and he's played too much. I'd still want to go to war with him as my goaltender.

[carpandean]

Regarding Kaleta, I should say that he's the best enforcer we've got. He seems to be more in the mold of Sean Avery than a Donald Brashear, since he can hit guys and get under their skin, not to mention score a goal or two.

Avery is not an enforcer, he's an agitator. Enforcers fight -- usually other enforcers -- while agitators get under your skin with heavy hitting, drawing you into taking stupid retaliatory penalties. Most agitators will only drop the gloves if they have no other choice. Kaleta is an agitator.

 

I would rather have Kaleta on the fourth line than Peters, but that's partly because Peters has changed into a poor enforcer. If we had a true enforcer, I would still like to keep Kaleta in there and swap the enforcer with a more skilled (but still energizing) player depending on the opponent. Really, I just wish enforcers would go away as a concept. They only fight each other now or take cheap shots that get them suspended.

 

Vanek has had what would be considered a sophomore slump (yes, I know it's his third season, but he's still young enough to experience a slight letdown after his first big season) if he had a "normal" contract. Were he making $4 million a year, we wouldn't be complaining too much and when we did, it would mostly be about consistency (he's had 32 goals, but 9 of those came in 3 games, with the other 24 coming in 73 games.) However, because the Oilers offered him a huge contract and, to avoid an all-out riot, the Sabres had to match, he comes off as a big disappointment. I will be far more critical a year from now if he hasn't stepped up his game.

 

This team needs three things: a PP scheme that works, a defense that is better/tougher and a back-up goalie that can play well enough to give Miller games off periodically. Any one of these three would likely have put these guys in the playoffs this year (not that they are out of yet, but they wouldn't have had to squeak in), so they are not far off. They did need some leadership this year that they didn't quite get from either the few veterans that are left or from new guys coming up (seen some, but not enough). Now the question is whether they need to bring in some this year or let it continue to boil up from inside. I have faith that guys like Roy, Gaustad and Pominville will be leaders someday, but that may be next year or two years from now. I'm hoping that if we build up the D a little, we will get some leadership with it.

[inkman]

Kaleta has been a good addition - the type of enforcer they need on this team

As for Kaleta, he has been a good addition, but to call him an enforcer?

Regarding Kaleta, I should say that he's the best enforcer we've got.

Avery is not an enforcer, he's an agitator. Enforcers fight -- usually other enforcers -- while agitators get under your skin with heavy hitting, drawing you into taking stupid retaliatory penalties. Most agitators will only drop the gloves if they have no other choice. Kaleta is an agitator.

 

I would rather have Kaleta on the fourth line than Peters, but that's partly because Peters has changed into a poor enforcer. If we had a true enforcer, I would still like to keep Kaleta in there and swap the enforcer with a more skilled (but still energizing) player depending on the opponent. Really, I just wish enforcers would go away as a concept. They only fight each other now or take cheap shots that get them suspended.

Hockey Terms

 

enforcer

A player whose primary job is to protect teammates by retaliating against any opposing player guilty of excessive roughness

[Knightrider]

BS. The loss of Briere & Drury didn't seem to bother Roy or Pominville. Max has regressed to the old Max and needs to be shipped out of town for whatever DR can get, Connolly was signed to a contract at a time when he was out of action and continues to prove that he can't stay healthy and Vanek(much as I predicted) has collapsed below the weight of a 50 million dollar contract.

 

I'm not so sure of that, although I think Dumont should be added to Drury and Briere when talking about the leadership void. Roy and Pominville both score goals in bunches, but neither is in the top 50 in game winners. Vanek is tied with a bunch of players (including Dumont) for 4th with 8. The only othe Buffalo player in the top 50 is Stafford with 5. Drury has 6 this year, and 9 last year. Briere, meh... The arguement against Roy is a little weak btw because he is so good at setting up Vanek. Looking at last years's stats, Briere had 6 GWGs including 3 OTGs, and 6 SOGs. Note also the Pominville went from 5 GWGs last year to one this year.

 

Vanek IMHO has recovered from a tough start. Because of his salary, there are those who will never acknowledge he is an asset because of the salary.

 

Connolly hasn't filled the void Briere left, but I don't think Briere would have had a very good season in Buffalo either. Connolly, Briere and Max, are obvious victims of the return of clutch and grab. Should Darcy been able to predict that? Maybe, but the NHL is more at fault for that than the Sabres.

[carpandean]

enforcer

A player whose primary job is to protect teammates by retaliating against any opposing player guilty of excessive roughness

Exactly. That is not Kaleta.

 

Now, that webpage needs to add the term "agitator" since many teams have one.

[Bmwolf21]

I'm not so sure of that, although I think Dumont should be added to Drury and Briere when talking about the leadership void. Roy and Pominville both score goals in bunches, but neither is in the top 50 in game winners. Vanek is tied with a bunch of players (including Dumont) for 4th with 8. The only othe Buffalo player in the top 50 is Stafford with 5. Drury has 6 this year, and 9 last year. Briere, meh... The arguement against Roy is a little weak btw because he is so good at setting up Vanek. Looking at last years's stats, Briere had 6 GWGs including 3 OTGs, and 6 SOGs. Note also the Pominville went from 5 GWGs last year to one this year.

 

Vanek IMHO has recovered from a tough start. Because of his salary, there are those who will never acknowledge he is an asset because of the salary.

 

Connolly hasn't filled the void Briere left, but I don't think Briere would have had a very good season in Buffalo either. Connolly, Briere and Max, are obvious victims of the return of clutch and grab. Should Darcy been able to predict that? Maybe, but the NHL is more at fault for that than the Sabres.

WRT Vanek - the more I look at his season, the less impressed I become. He had one big month (February) that saved his season from being a total disaster (and don't forget, three of his March goals came in one game vs. Tampa):

                GP 	G 	A 	Pts 	+/- 	PIM 	PPG 	PPA 	SHG 	SHA 	GW 	GT 	SOG 	Pct 	 
October 	10 	3 	5 	8 	-1 	12 	0 	1 	0 	0 	1 	0 	23 	.130 	 
November 	13 	3 	5 	8 	-1 	10 	2 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	45 	.067 	 
December 	14 	5 	1 	6 	5 	14 	2 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	26 	.192 	 
January 	13 	3 	7 	10 	1 	6 	2 	1 	0 	0 	1 	0 	47 	.064 	 
February       15 	13 	7 	20 	-1 	6 	8 	3 	0 	0 	4 	0 	57 	.228 	 
March 	  	11 	5 	1 	6 	-9 	12 	2 	0 	0 	0 	1 	0 	25 	.200 	 

[carpandean]

I'm not so sure of that, although I think Dumont should be added to Drury and Briere when talking about the leadership void. Roy and Pominville both score goals in bunches, but neither is in the top 50 in game winners. Vanek is tied with a bunch of players (including Dumont) for 4th with 8. The only othe Buffalo player in the top 50 is Stafford with 5. Drury has 6 this year, and 9 last year. Briere, meh... The arguement against Roy is a little weak btw because he is so good at setting up Vanek. Looking at last years's stats, Briere had 6 GWGs including 3 OTGs, and 6 SOGs. Note also the Pominville went from 5 GWGs last year to one this year.

GWG is a misleading stat. Sometimes, those are important like in one goal games, but then each other goal in those games is very important, too. Sometimes, they are just determined by whether or not the team lets in a late goal against during a blowout. I can't remember each and every Vanek goal, so I don't remember which were game winners, but there have been several times where Roy has banked a shot off of Vanek (sometimes with Vanek tipping it, but other times with it just hitting off his leg). In these cases, Roy's assist is just as important as Vanek's goal. Also, in the comeback game against TB, which was the most important goal? I would say either Pominville's second (the one right off the faceoff by Gaustad) or Hecht's first, which came right after it. Vanek's were important, but I wouldn't say any more so (individually, anyway).

[Mike Oxhurtz]

I'm not so sure of that, although I think Dumont should be added to Drury and Briere when talking about the leadership void. Roy and Pominville both score goals in bunches, but neither is in the top 50 in game winners. Vanek is tied with a bunch of players (including Dumont) for 4th with 8. The only othe Buffalo player in the top 50 is Stafford with 5. Drury has 6 this year, and 9 last year. Briere, meh... The arguement against Roy is a little weak btw because he is so good at setting up Vanek. Looking at last years's stats, Briere had 6 GWGs including 3 OTGs, and 6 SOGs. Note also the Pominville went from 5 GWGs last year to one this year.

 

Vanek IMHO has recovered from a tough start. Because of his salary, there are those who will never acknowledge he is an asset because of the salary.

 

Connolly hasn't filled the void Briere left, but I don't think Briere would have had a very good season in Buffalo either. Connolly, Briere and Max, are obvious victims of the return of clutch and grab. Should Darcy been able to predict that? Maybe, but the NHL is more at fault for that than the Sabres.

 

 

Great post! Thanks for the stats!

[apuszczalowski]

Hockey Terms

 

enforcer

A player whose primary job is to protect teammates by retaliating against any opposing player guilty of excessive roughness

It all depends on how you view an enforcer, theres different types. An Agitator can be considered an enforcer, but then you could almost say that anyone who plays physical is an enforcer, as long as they hit someone who hit their teammate.

 

Kaleta fits the Avery mold more of being an agitator (by the way, I would like to see Avery in a Sabres uniform, he seems to be the guy you hate to play against because he just gets under the other teams skin and takes away their focus, and he can play). I would expect to see Kaleta out fighting the heavy weights. Peters is a very cheap insurance option for an enforcer, he isn't the best at it compared to some of the other heavy weights, but he doesn't back down from going out and getting into a fight with anyone, and knows that it is his only role with the team, to go out and get in a fight for his teammates so they don't have to and take a penalty. Its not like they are grossly overpaying him, or he is keeping players off the ice because he is in the press box most of the time when not needed. If there was a better alternative that could be more then what Peters is for a similar cost, I think they would be all for an upgrade, but for what he is, a cheap isurance policy thats ready when needed, I am always surprised how much abuse he takes from the fans here. You would think he was keeping the team from being able to have Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin on this team.

[apuszczalowski]

Connolly hasn't filled the void Briere left, but I don't think Briere would have had a very good season in Buffalo either. Connolly, Briere and Max, are obvious victims of the return of clutch and grab. Should Darcy been able to predict that? Maybe, but the NHL is more at fault for that than the Sabres.

I will disagree with that, last year the clutch and grab was already starting to return, and he had a career year. His problem this year was he went to a team that plays a completly different system then Buffalo did. He is most valuable to a team like Buffalo, that relies heavily on a high powered offence. He may not have put up the same stats as last year on the Sabres, but he would not have struggled as much as he had earlier in Philly. His problem this year has also been inconsistency of his linemates, he has had many, and he is not used to any of them, unlike in Buffalo where he has played with only about 4-5 different players regularly.

 

Some players are worth alot more to different teams then others. Briere is worth more to the Sabres, then he is to the Flyers, but the Flyers expected him to be the same, playing a different style. He has rebounded nicely though in the recent weeks, now that he has a regular linemate in Prospal

[Bmwolf21]

It all depends on how you view an enforcer, theres different types. An Agitator can be considered an enforcer, but then you could almost say that anyone who plays physical is an enforcer, as long as they hit someone who hit their teammate.

 

Kaleta fits the Avery mold more of being an agitator (by the way, I would like to see Avery in a Sabres uniform, he seems to be the guy you hate to play against because he just gets under the other teams skin and takes away their focus, and he can play). I would expect to see Kaleta out fighting the heavy weights. Peters is a very cheap insurance option for an enforcer, he isn't the best at it compared to some of the other heavy weights, but he doesn't back down from going out and getting into a fight with anyone, and knows that it is his only role with the team, to go out and get in a fight for his teammates so they don't have to and take a penalty. Its not like they are grossly overpaying him, or he is keeping players off the ice because he is in the press box most of the time when not needed. If there was a better alternative that could be more then what Peters is for a similar cost, I think they would be all for an upgrade, but for what he is, a cheap isurance policy thats ready when needed, I am always surprised how much abuse he takes from the fans here. You would think he was keeping the team from being able to have Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin on this team.

Is that a typo? Because at 5-11, 195 I don't want him anywhere near any team's heavyweights.

[Knightrider]

GWG is a misleading stat. Sometimes, those are important like in one goal games, but then each other goal in those games is very important, too. Sometimes, they are just determined by whether or not the team lets in a late goal against during a blowout. I can't remember each and every Vanek goal, so I don't remember which were game winners, but there have been several times where Roy has banked a shot off of Vanek (sometimes with Vanek tipping it, but other times with it just hitting off his leg). In these cases, Roy's assist is just as important as Vanek's goal. Also, in the comeback game against TB, which was the most important goal? I would say either Pominville's second (the one right off the faceoff by Gaustad) or Hecht's first, which came right after it. Vanek's were important, but I wouldn't say any more so (individually, anyway).

 

I totally agree. I wasn't using GWGs to say Vanek is great. I was disagreeing LB's claim that the departure of Drury and Briere didn't matter. There loss is huge. I was trying to use GWGs to show that Pominville has regressed in that category b/c Briere wasn't setting him up. Given that Roy and Vanek are no longer 3rd line players, they have done pretty well.

 

BTW, the Gaustad Kotalik Paille (last year's Drury line? I think they were playing with Drury...) is not getting the GWGs either.

 

I then went on to say that rule enforcement or lack thereof is impacting Max, Connolly, and Briere.

[Knightrider]

I will disagree with that, last year the clutch and grab was already starting to return, and he had a career year. His problem this year was he went to a team that plays a completly different system then Buffalo did. He is most valuable to a team like Buffalo, that relies heavily on a high powered offence. He may not have put up the same stats as last year on the Sabres, but he would not have struggled as much as he had earlier in Philly. His problem this year has also been inconsistency of his linemates, he has had many, and he is not used to any of them, unlike in Buffalo where he has played with only about 4-5 different players regularly.

 

Some players are worth alot more to different teams then others. Briere is worth more to the Sabres, then he is to the Flyers, but the Flyers expected him to be the same, playing a different style. He has rebounded nicely though in the recent weeks, now that he has a regular linemate in Prospal

 

That's fair.

[apuszczalowski]

Is that a typo? Because at 5-11, 195 I don't want him anywhere near any team's heavyweights.

If he was the teams enforcer, I would expect to see him fighting the heavyweights

[Bmwolf21]

If he was the teams enforcer, I would expect to see him fighting the heavyweights

Then I assume you're making the point that he shouldn't be the enforcer? Just trying to follow you here.

 

I think he's perfect in an Avery-agitator role and dropping his gloves occasionally as needed, but I don't want to see him as the designated tough guy/goon. I think he's too valuable for that.

[LabattBlue]

I'm not so sure of that, although I think Dumont should be added to Drury and Briere when talking about the leadership void. Roy and Pominville both score goals in bunches, but neither is in the top 50 in game winners. Vanek is tied with a bunch of players (including Dumont) for 4th with 8. The only othe Buffalo player in the top 50 is Stafford with 5. Drury has 6 this year, and 9 last year. Briere, meh... The arguement against Roy is a little weak btw because he is so good at setting up Vanek. Looking at last years's stats, Briere had 6 GWGs including 3 OTGs, and 6 SOGs. Note also the Pominville went from 5 GWGs last year to one this year.

 

Vanek IMHO has recovered from a tough start. Because of his salary, there are those who will never acknowledge he is an asset because of the salary.

 

Connolly hasn't filled the void Briere left, but I don't think Briere would have had a very good season in Buffalo either. Connolly, Briere and Max, are obvious victims of the return of clutch and grab. Should Darcy been able to predict that? Maybe, but the NHL is more at fault for that than the Sabres.

My point is that compared to last year Roy and Pominville have both had really good seasons without the presence of Drury & Briere. I also was trying to say that the woes of Vanek, Max & Connolly have not been caused by the loss of D&B.

[apuszczalowski]

My point is that compared to last year Roy and Pominville have both had really good seasons without the presence of Drury & Briere. I also was trying to say that the woes of Vanek, Max & Connolly have not been caused by the loss of D&B.

Max and Connolly I can agree with, their problem is that Max only thrives in the wide open game, like when the officials call the games like they are supposed to under the "new NHL rules". If the ice is opened up and he can use his skills and speed, he can be a great player, in what the NHL has gone back to, he isn't all that useful cause he doesn't have the space to use his skills. Connolly just can't stay healthy, he is too fragile, and has only had 1 good year his entire career.

 

But as for Vanek, I believe his woes are related to DB and CD leaving, with them, the Sabres had a #1 guy that teams focused, without them, Vanek is now that guy, teams are now planning against him, and focusing on shutting him down. He is now feeling the pressure of being "The Guy" on the team, instead of being just another future star. By letting DB and CD go, and making vanek the top player, they forced him to mature alot faster then he is ready to and to become the player we all believe he could be because of his potential before he is ready. This is the same player that in his first to years in the league was getting into the coaches doghouse for not showing enough effort (along with Max), and now he is expected to be the top guy. If they would have replaced just one of the 2 lost in FA last offseason with a Top Tier guy, Vanek would have probably had a bit better of a season cause the presure wouldn't have been so big for him to be the star.

[stenbaro]

My point is that compared to last year Roy and Pominville have both had really good seasons without the presence of Drury & Briere. I also was trying to say that the woes of Vanek, Max & Connolly have not been caused by the loss of D&B.

I think that an overlooked issue with the 2 captains leaving is not that Roy and Pominville didnt falter its that the players that were suppose to pick up for Vanek and Roy moving up in line status never materialized...