LabattBlue Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 If you are a prospect junkie, this is a great read. Once again, outstanding work being done at this blog... http://www.sabresprospects.com/
Bmwolf21 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 If you are a prospect junkie, this is a great read. Once again, outstanding work being done at this blog... http://www.sabresprospects.com/ Good stuff, and thanks for re-posting that link Blue. The only thing I disagreed with was this: With SSK failing to qualify for the playoffs, it is believed that the Sabres are talking contract with Enroth's camp. Jocelyn Thibault has been a sub-par backup, and Adam Dennis isn't quite ready for NHL pucks. It all adds up to Enroth offering a competitive nudge to Ryan Miller as the incumbent enters the final year of his deal. It reads to me that they believe Enroth will be signed to come over and be a backup to Miller, and if that's the case, I think it would be a huge mistake. He needs to play at least one year, maybe two in the AHL before we can throw him into the NHL fire - I'd hate to see this kid get shelled in the early going and have his confidence shot. If the kid is really the Sabres' netminder of the future, let's not screw that up by rushing him into the bigs so he can sit around for 55+ games. If Enroth starts in the minors and tears up the AHL, then the Sabres can call him up to push Ryan and give them insurance against Miller's departure. But let's not gamble with a young kid's psyche, especially when the organization is so thin in goaltending depth.
Buffalo Fan Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 Good stuff, and thanks for re-posting that link Blue. The only thing I disagreed with was this: It reads to me that they believe Enroth will be signed to come over and be a backup to Miller, and if that's the case, I think it would be a huge mistake. He needs to play at least one year, maybe two in the AHL before we can throw him into the NHL fire - I'd hate to see this kid get shelled in the early going and have his confidence shot. If the kid is really the Sabres' netminder of the future, let's not screw that up by rushing him into the bigs so he can sit around for 55+ games. If Enroth starts in the minors and tears up the AHL, then the Sabres can call him up to push Ryan and give them insurance against Miller's departure. But let's not gamble with a young kid's psyche, especially when the organization is so thin in goaltending depth. The problem here is with the new CB, you don't have much time to groom. YOu have to make decisions much quicker, and if the Sabres do sign Miller to a long term deal this summer, I doubt they will be able (or willing depending on how you look at it) to hold on to Enroth.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 The problem here is with the new CB, you don't have much time to groom. YOu have to make decisions much quicker, and if the Sabres do sign Miller to a long term deal this summer, I doubt they will be able (or willing depending on how you look at it) to hold on to Enroth. I don't think it's a risk you can take, CBA or not. I'd rather have the problem of having two potential franchise goalies than none. If they put Enroth in Rochester/Portland/Brockport/wherever their AHL team ends up and he does tear it up, they have three options: - he gets promoted and sits behind Miller as the backup until he claims the no.1 job away; - he quickly becomes the no.1 guy and they trade Ryan; - or they have a great trade chip in a great young goalie.
shrader Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 I don't think it's a risk you can take, CBA or not. I'd rather have the problem of having two potential franchise goalies than none. If they put Enroth in Rochester/Portland/Brockport/wherever their AHL team ends up and he does tear it up, they have three options: - he gets promoted and sits behind Miller as the backup until he claims the no.1 job away; - he quickly becomes the no.1 guy and they trade Ryan; - or they have a great trade chip in a great young goalie. And they have 3 years to keep in in Rochester if they really want to. Even the, its not like they have to move one of them after that point. They have his rights for a long enough time that the picture will be clear when the time for a decision rolls around.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 And they have 3 years to keep in in Rochester if they really want to. Even the, its not like they have to move one of them after that point. They have his rights for a long enough time that the picture will be clear when the time for a decision rolls around. Exactly. I guess my feeling is - he's not even 20 years old. Why gamble with this kid's psyche if we don't need to? Let's see what he can do in the AHL as the no.1 guy for 55+ games and then see if we want to turn the reins over to him.
nobody Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 I would think they want to get him signed now for next season in the AHL so they know what they have when they can't get Miller resigned and the team is sitting in February 2009 nearing the trade deadline.
Buffalo Fan Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 Exactly. I guess my feeling is - he's not even 20 years old. Why gamble with this kid's psyche if we don't need to? Let's see what he can do in the AHL as the no.1 guy for 55+ games and then see if we want to turn the reins over to him. When does free agency hit?
Bmwolf21 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 When does free agency hit? For who? Enroth or Miller?
Buffalo Fan Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 For who? Enroth or Miller? I was thinking in general. With the new CBA a team does not have as much exclusive time with their prospects, am I write?
Bmwolf21 Posted March 25, 2008 Report Posted March 25, 2008 I was thinking in general. With the new CBA a team does not have as much exclusive time with their prospects, am I write? Someone with better knowledge of the CBA would have to answer that but I think, as shrader pointed out, it's something like 3-4 years from when he's drafted or when he joins the organization.
Chief Enabler Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Exactly. I guess my feeling is - he's not even 20 years old. Why gamble with this kid's psyche if we don't need to? Let's see what he can do in the AHL as the no.1 guy for 55+ games and then see if we want to turn the reins over to him. what do we have to lose? for further explanation see: Carey Price. I agree with that there is little time to groom. Is there any truth to breakdowns when Miller has 71 starts a season?
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 what do we have to lose? for further explanation see: Carey Price. I agree with that there is little time to groom. Is there any truth to breakdowns when Miller has 71 starts a season? Again, Price has played all of 37 games, while posting Miller-esque numbers (2.71 GAA, .915 SV.) He might turn into another great Montreal goalie. Or he might wilt under the pressure of the playoffs and being the true no.1 goalie for an entire season. Montreal is really putting all their eggs in one basket here - especially given that their backup is a 22-year old with 21 NHL games to his name. It's an odd gamble from a team at the top of the conference, IMO. What do we have to lose? There is no one noteworthy in the org. behind Enroth. If we throw him to the wolves and he sucks out loud, what then? Gonna have to trade for a no.1 and that's gonna cost you a Paille or a Stafford or maybe more. You have to groom the kid - the Swedish Elite league and the World Junior Championships are not exactly NHL-caliber competition.
Chief Enabler Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Again, Price has played all of 37 games, while posting Miller-esque numbers (2.71 GAA, .915 SV.) He might turn into another great Montreal goalie. Or he might wilt under the pressure of the playoffs and being the true no.1 goalie for an entire season. Montreal is really putting all their eggs in one basket here - especially given that their backup is a 22-year old with 21 NHL games to his name. It's an odd gamble from a team at the top of the conference, IMO. What do we have to lose? There is no one noteworthy in the org. behind Enroth. If we throw him to the wolves and he sucks out loud, what then? Gonna have to trade for a no.1 and that's gonna cost you a Paille or a Stafford or maybe more. You have to groom the kid - the Swedish Elite league and the World Junior Championships are not exactly NHL-caliber competition. I take it that is not directed at Thibault. To make a point, Montreal is in the playoffs. I would give enroth a shot over the summer for a position, if he gets the backup job great; great story. If Miller gets hurt, you get enroth or dennis at that point. True, there is probably a dozen Thibault out there to hire as well. I really dont agree 100% with the grooming part in this day and age in the NHL. You either got it or you dont.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 I take it that is not directed at Thibault. To make a point, Montreal is in the playoffs. I would give enroth a shot over the summer for a position, if he gets the backup job great; great story. If Miller gets hurt, you get enroth or dennis at that point. True, there is probably a dozen Thibault out there to hire as well. I really dont agree 100% with the grooming part in this day and age in the NHL. You either got it or you dont. I don't understand. So a goalie is either NHL ready RIGHT NOW or he'll never be? You should never take the time to develop the most important position on the team? As for Montreal - did Price get them to the top of the EC as the undisputed no.1? Or was it the combination of two goalies with similar numbers getting them there? (BTW, on a side note - how is it that the Habs can be in 1st in the EC when their two main goalies have numbers similar to Miller's?) I just don't see what Enroth sitting on the bench for 55+ games accomplishes when he could be in the AHL for one year getting regular experience. Goalie is a position you absolutely cannot screw around with - let the kid learn the NA game against AHL- and NHL-caliber talent, and if he shows he is ready, move the backup and bring him up. What's the harm in letting him ease into it?
Chief Enabler Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 I don't understand. So a goalie is either NHL ready RIGHT NOW or he'll never be? You should never take the time to develop the most important position on the team? As for Montreal - did Price get them to the top of the EC as the undisputed no.1? Or was it the combination of two goalies with similar numbers getting them there? (BTW, on a side note - how is it that the Habs can be in 1st in the EC when their two main goalies have numbers similar to Miller's?) I just don't see what Enroth sitting on the bench for 55+ games accomplishes when he could be in the AHL for one year getting regular experience. Goalie is a position you absolutely cannot screw around with - let the kid learn the NA game against AHL- and NHL-caliber talent, and if he shows he is ready, move the backup and bring him up. What's the harm in letting him ease into it? A couple of holes here. #1 we dont have an AHL team. #2 forget the Carey Price stats to Miller. The only one that matters is winning and playoffs. Like I said before, lets just give him a shot in training camp this year. fair is fair.
LabattBlue Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Posted March 26, 2008 Looking at the prospects last night, the answer to a #2 center is nowhere on the horizon. Connolly needs to be replaced and this is what is on the farm... Zagrapan...2 years in the AHL and doesn't appear to be anywhere near NHL ready. Byron...undersized with 1 or 2 years of junior eligibility left Breault...will need AHL seasoning Allard...see Breault. Also has 1 or 2 years of junior eligibility left. Schutz...left the QMJHL to play in Germany this year. Who knows? AHL next year? That's it folks. This is why DR MUST go out and get a #2 center in FA or via trade.
shrader Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Someone with better knowledge of the CBA would have to answer that but I think, as shrader pointed out, it's something like 3-4 years from when he's drafted or when he joins the organization. It depends on their age when they sign their first contract. Most sign early enough (18-21) that they are required to sign a 3 year entry level deal. Enroth will fall into this category. So he gets 3 years and then hits RFA status. After that point he is eligible for waivers, so he's definitely at the NHL level if he's good. The limit for UFA for Enroth will be either 7 seasons or when he hits 27 years old. They'll have more than enough time to figure out if he's the goalie of the future or not.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 A couple of holes here. #1 we dont have an AHL team. #2 forget the Carey Price stats to Miller. The only one that matters is winning and playoffs. Like I said before, lets just give him a shot in training camp this year. fair is fair. Not sure I understand what you mean by holes in my post, but I'll play along: #1. Come on. Seriously, that's your response? First, we DO have an AHL team right now, until the marriage with the Amerks is officially dissolved. And if/when that happens, we will have another team. It's guaranteed. #2. Fine. Miller has won 103 regular season games in the last 2 1/2 years and is 20-14, 2.40, .915 in two deep playoff runs. I'll take that every day of the week over an untested rookie. What does "fair is fair" mean? "Fair is fair" means "hey rookie, you're 20 years old and haven't played a minute in North America - but hey, you were pretty good at the World JUNIOR Championships, so here, you can compete with the goalie who got us to two straight ECFs and has won 100+ games in his last 2.5 years." :blink: I hope Enroth is the real deal, I really do. But I still haven't seen one good reason why he shouldn't start in the AHL when he comes over from Sweden.
LabattBlue Posted March 26, 2008 Author Report Posted March 26, 2008 I hope Enroth is the real deal, I really do. But I still haven't seen one good reason why he shouldn't start in the AHL when he comes over from Sweden. IMO...Enroth definitely is AHL bound. It would be a train wreck to have him begin his pro career in the NHL.
Chief Enabler Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 #2. Fine. Miller has won 103 regular season games in the last 2 1/2 years and is 20-14, 2.40, .915 in two deep playoff runs. I'll take that every day of the week over an untested rookie. You live on stats and the past too much. What is going on today and what is going to happen? Miller=no playoffs, Price=playoffs I guess it resorts to players on a year to year basis. Sounds like you would keep Thibault based on his career stats over Enroth.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 You live on stats and the past too much. What is going on today and what is going to happen? Miller=no playoffs, Price=playoffs I guess it resorts to players on a year to year basis. Sounds like you would keep Thibault based on his career stats over Enroth. Wow. Because Montreal being in the playoffs and Buffalo being out is solely based on the goaltenders. Nope - Price is in the playoffs and Miller's out. He sucks and we should clearly jeopardize the development of a young goalie prospect (and that's all he is right now, a prospect) who may be our future franchise guy so he can "push" MIller. Good to see the Bills' QB mentality is seeping in here. Not what have you done for me - I want it right now. Keep Thibault over Enroth? Not an option, but yep, I probably would - at least to start the season. Enroth should start in the AHL. There is no reason to bring him into camp as Miller's backup. None. He will get a helluva lot more experience in the AHL playing regularly than he will watching from the bench in the NHL. I'm still waiting for you to convince me why Enroth should get a shot at the NHL with no experience.
Chief Enabler Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 I'm still waiting for you to convince me why Enroth should get a shot at the NHL with no experience. Maybe because JP Losman and Trent Edwards did in Buffalo. Do we see any relation? not to open another can of worms.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Maybe because JP Losman and Trent Edwards did in Buffalo. Do we see any relation? not to open another can of worms. Not sure what your point is.
inkman Posted March 26, 2008 Report Posted March 26, 2008 Maybe because JP Losman and Trent Edwards did in Buffalo. Do we see any relation? not to open another can of worms. Could one consider college football equivalent to the AHL as far as a developmental place for young players to get ready for the big leagues?
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