Teppo's back

[BuffalOhio]

Yeah it's a stretch because that would mean they would have to have concerted team effort or majority buying into that however what I think has become evident to me at least is that there still has not been a "TEAM" attitude or dynamic.

 

I just think back to all the various times this year other teams have taken liberities and or cheap shots on our players (most recent Laraque hit to Paestch) where no body I mean no body acted like they noticed on the team let alone get in his face, face wash him, scuflle a little with him( a basic tenet of hockey through the years I've been watching)... I think I can recall on one hand the numbe rof times I recall our players standing up for each other... IMHO That ingrediant and attitude is one of the things defitiely missing this year,,, Although I will say these kids come up have added abit more of that lately

 

Not sure anyone, and I mean anyone, on the Sabres should be scuffling with Big Georges. Talk about getting your face caved in!

 

I agree, our team is not tough enough and that it needs to change in the future.

[spndnchz]

Just an aside I am curious if 2.6 million isn't more than the entire non-roster game staff is making.

Ruff, Patrick, trainers etc...

Ruff's gotta be making over one mill. he made that his last contract. I assume there's some bonus money in there. I still think Teppo's case is more like a test case for the CBA, NHL and NHLPA. They all want to be careful about setting a precedent with him.

[RayFinkle]

Teppo practiced with the team and took part in the pre-game skate.

[tom webster]

Interesting idea. I think nothing is really more fleeting than a reputation in sports.

From the management and the players end.

The sports world moves so fast and length of tenure is so short that I really think everything is

what have you done for me lately.

I don't really think many players ever said I won't play for the Leafs because of Ballard, or

Chicago because of the Wirtz's.

 

Of course I don't know the minds of the players, but I think winning is much more important than managements reputation...and with guaranteed contracts I don't think it matters much if the money and tenure are right.

 

It seems to me that Teppo's is an exceptional case within the CBA and the salary cap.

We'll see how the grievance plays out.

 

Just an aside I am curious if 2.6 million isn't more than the entire non-roster game staff is making.

Ruff, Patrick, trainers etc...

 

Trust me, Ruff's salary alone is pushing $2 million. A quick google search, and coaches and gm'w salaries are not published, showed a story were Pat Quinn's salary with Toronto before the lock out was pushing $1.5 million.

[tom webster]

Ruff's gotta be making over one mill. he made that his last contract. I assume there's some bonus money in there. I still think Teppo's case is more like a test case for the CBA, NHL and NHLPA. They all want to be careful about setting a precedent with him.

 

Teppo's case if it is a test, is only a test because other teams, (see Detroit and Jiri Fisher) have paid the player. The only case I know of a team suspending a guy at hte beginning of training cap was when St louis suspend Tkaczuk for being too fat.

[apuszczalowski]

Teppo's case if it is a test, is only a test because other teams, (see Detroit and Jiri Fisher) have paid the player. The only case I know of a team suspending a guy at hte beginning of training cap was when St louis suspend Tkaczuk for being too fat.

Was Fisher hurt during a game/warmups/practice/something to do with playing hockey with the team?

 

Tkaczuk was suspended because it was a non hockey related condition that kept him from fullfilling his contract, like Teppo's

[apuszczalowski]

I have almost 1200 hours sick leave on the books... 2080 is one full work year... I am the same age as Teppo... Something like this happens to me, I would get my full pay... And heck, if I ran out of sick leave... There is a donation (people can only donate their annual leave) program and I am pretty sure I can borrow against it from the agency on the stipulation that you will be back... Or if not, would have to pay them back.

 

Just saying... Also at 40 and been working with the same company for over 15 years.

Who is paying you to have the time off? Is it through your insurance? Or is the company you work for paying you out of their own pockets? Are you getting your full pay while not working?

 

And is the time off on sick leave work related? Is it due to a sickness from a work related incident or something completly work unrelated?

 

If it is something completly work unrelated and they are still paying you your full salary out of your own pockets, you work for a very rare and outstanding company. I don't know of any company's that will continue to pay your full salary to you for a work unrelated injury/sickness after you use up all your sick days. Most will still give you the time off and you can come back to your job when you are better, but after your sick days are up, you will be doing it without pay from your company

[X. Benedict]

Was Fisher hurt during a game/warmups/practice/something to do with playing hockey with the team?

 

Fisher passed his physical but had a heart attack during a game. The game exacerbated a previously undetected medical condition.

 

But..

 

What I don't get about all of this with Teppo is aren't team physicals precisely for the purpose

of protecting the organizations interest? Shouldn't giving physicals to free agent signings be for the purpose of protecting the team investment? Of course they were going to look at his heart closely, because they knew about his heart was uninsurable.

[spndnchz]

Fisher passed his physical but had a heart attack during a game. The game exacerbated a previously undetected medical condition.

 

But..

 

What I don't get about all of this with Teppo is aren't team physicals precisely for the purpose

of protecting the organizations interest? Shouldn't giving physicals to free agent signings be for the purpose of protecting the team investment? Of course they were going to look at his heart closely, because they knew about his heart was uninsurable.

FWIW, most all players contracts are insured, they couldn't get insurance on Teppo's so he has an extra clause that allows the Sabres to do exactly what they did, no Teppo no payo.

 

For example, again FWIW, if you had a winning lottery ticket for say, $2.6 million. Your friend says "hey, let me hold onto that for you". Would you want some insurance that he doesn't walk off with it? and if you can't get the insurance how about a waiver with the lottery commission that says only you can cash the ticket, if not its void.

 

The Sabres want him to play but we don't want him to be at the other blueline, breakout pass goes by him, do you think he'd catch up to that player right now? not a chance. Maybe use him more on the penalty kill when he doesn't have to skate as hard.

[tom webster]

FWIW, most all players contracts are insured, they couldn't get insurance on Teppo's so he has an extra clause that allows the Sabres to do exactly what they did, no Teppo no payo.

 

For example, again FWIW, if you had a winning lottery ticket for say, $2.6 million. Your friend says "hey, let me hold onto that for you". Would you want some insurance that he doesn't walk off with it? and if you can't get the insurance how about a waiver with the lottery commission that says only you can cash the ticket, if not its void.

 

The Sabres want him to play but we don't want him to be at the other blueline, breakout pass goes by him, do you think he'd catch up to that player right now? not a chance. Maybe use him more on the penalty kill when he doesn't have to skate as hard.

 

Once again, I am ninety percent certain that there is no additional clause. Teppo routinely had a physical at the Mayo Clinic since his condition first came into play in Dallas. If there was any special clause, I am sure there would be no grievance.

This thread is taking on a life of its own. The real question isn't whether the team had the right to suspend Teppo. They followed the letter of the contract and the only thing being debated is at what time he was "in NHL playing the shape."

 

The real question is whether it is in their best interest to play hard ball with him! They have always played by strict letter of their legal rights and then don't understand when players don't want to come here or won't give them a home town discount to stay. It is no different than when they sent MacArthur down at the all star break (something a couple but not most of the other teams did) or the way the screwed Jay McKee out of $100,000 during the lock out.

[X. Benedict]

Curious, but it sounds like the nature of Teppo's grievance is that the condition is hockey related:

 

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/AL...OKZikJnjcu_v1Eg

 

"He didn't want to discuss any details of the grievance Friday, but noted the condition that has forced him to miss most of this season should be deemed hockey related.

 

"That's our opinion of it. That's how I'm looking at it and the (players' association) is looking at it," Numminen said. "It's going to be settled in the future.""

[Claude Balls]

I haven't read this entire thread, but is it known when Teppo is going to play, if at all this year?

[X. Benedict]

I have read this entire thread, but is it known when Teppo is going to play, if at all this year?

 

Just an impression that I'm gathering, but I don't think he's expected to play at all.

This is sounding more like a stand on principle.

[tom webster]

Fisher passed his physical but had a heart attack during a game. The game exacerbated a previously undetected medical condition.

 

But..

 

What I don't get about all of this with Teppo is aren't team physicals precisely for the purpose

of protecting the organizations interest? Shouldn't giving physicals to free agent signings be for the purpose of protecting the team investment? Of course they were going to look at his heart closely, because they knew about his heart was uninsurable.

 

I am not sure you can make a case that the game exacerbated Fisher's heart condition. Teppo's physical, as I said earlier, was his own yearly physical at Mayo since he started having issues with his condition while in Dallas.

[X. Benedict]

I am not sure you can make a case that the game exacerbated Fisher's heart condition.

 

His heart stopped during a game he was competing in.

Maybe exacerbated is the wrong word choice. But heart attacks usually happen while engaged in

physical exertion. (that being hockey in this case) That's all i meant.

 

Teppo's physical, as I said earlier, was his own yearly physical at Mayo since he started having issues with his condition while in Dallas.

 

So he never even had a team physical until after the surgery?

[tom webster]

His heart stopped during a game he was competing in.

Maybe exacerbated is the wrong word choice. But heart attacks usually happen while engaged in

physical exertion. (that being hockey in this case) That's all i meant.

So he never even had a team physical until after the surgery?

 

As for Fischer, I think it actually happened on the bench before game but your point is taken. As for Teppo, it is my understanding that he had his yearly check up at which point his doctors informed him of the need for further surgery and than did not have a team physical till January after his doctors cleared him.

I am not sure how much you remember about his condition, but he had procedures in the past and was told that he would eventually would need open heart surgery later in life. He subsequently had a couple of episodes that forced him to miss some games. It was at this year's exam that it was determined that they couldn't put the surgery off any longer.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Who is paying you to have the time off? Is it through your insurance? Or is the company you work for paying you out of their own pockets? Are you getting your full pay while not working?

 

And is the time off on sick leave work related? Is it due to a sickness from a work related incident or something completly work unrelated?

 

If it is something completly work unrelated and they are still paying you your full salary out of your own pockets, you work for a very rare and outstanding company. I don't know of any company's that will continue to pay your full salary to you for a work unrelated injury/sickness after you use up all your sick days. Most will still give you the time off and you can come back to your job when you are better, but after your sick days are up, you will be doing it without pay from your company

 

Work benny. If you use up your sick leave, you can apply for leaving donations or apply to get an advance (depends on situation).

 

It is sick leave... For the sole purpose of my illness... Also can be used for death in the family and to take care of ill loved ones...

 

I earn 4 hours every two weeks and there is no cap... Under the old gov't retirment sysytem, if you retired with unused sick leave, you could get that credit towards years of service... I knew someone who retired with over 3k hours... That is almost 2 years! The new federal system (FERS, mid 1980's) you can't do that... You just lose it.

 

It is a nice benny... I can get sick now (I hope I don't) and I will get paid my normal wage for over a half a year... Couple that with annual leave (vacation) that I earn 1 day (8 hours) every two weeks up to 240 hours a year "carry over"... That is a pretty nice saftey net.

 

They should just stop being creeps and pay Teppo... He's earned it, IMO.

[apuszczalowski]

Once again, I am ninety percent certain that there is no additional clause. Teppo routinely had a physical at the Mayo Clinic since his condition first came into play in Dallas. If there was any special clause, I am sure there would be no grievance.

This thread is taking on a life of its own. The real question isn't whether the team had the right to suspend Teppo. They followed the letter of the contract and the only thing being debated is at what time he was "in NHL playing the shape."

 

The real question is whether it is in their best interest to play hard ball with him! They have always played by strict letter of their legal rights and then don't understand when players don't want to come here or won't give them a home town discount to stay. It is no different than when they sent MacArthur down at the all star break (something a couple but not most of the other teams did) or the way the screwed Jay McKee out of $100,000 during the lock out.

Its not that players don't want to come to Buffalo, or stay, its that most of the time when players say they want to stay, the team doesn't always have the same interest or want to pay them anywhere near market value.

 

Briere - Wanted to stay but the team never contacted him til 2 days before FA was supposed to start and threw him an offer the same as he had asked for the year before and they rejected.

McKee - Also wanted to stay but they did not want to pay market value for him, or would give him the money he wanted, but not for long term like he wanted (last year he was in Buffalo for the first round of the playoffs to watch)

Dumont - Also wanted to stay, but at that time there was no room in the budget for him after his arbitration award

Campbell - Wanted to stay but the team yet again a contract could not be worked out, apparently because the Sabres did not want to go long term, and Campbell did

 

I think that the reputation of the team has already been tarnished enough just by that, then them "suspending" Teppo because he couldn't pass his physical with his heart condition