navybillsfan Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I think Miller is a good goalie, not outstanding.... Way to many weak goals... Unable to win big games.... Unable to lockdown other strong teams... He has made some great saves this season, some of them will make the ESPN top 10, but Ill trade those big saves in for big games any day... Could it be our D or size up front? Tonight said it all for him 4 goals on 22 shots. Put a body in front of Miller and 5 out of 10 shots hit the back of the net. That is all the Sens do to us every game. We need a very healthy D for the playoffs or forget it! Our O is not going to score 3-6 goals a game...
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I think Miller is a good goalie, not outstanding.... Way to many weak goals... Unable to win big games.... Unable to lockdown other strong teams... He has made some great saves this season, some of them will make the ESPN top 10, but Ill trade those big saves in for big games any day... Could it be our D or size up front? Tonight said it all for him 4 goals on 22 shots. Put a body in front of Miller and 5 out of 10 shots hit the back of the net. That is all the Sens do to us every game. We need a very healthy D for the playoffs or forget it! Our O is not going to score 3-6 goals a game... Umm did you watch the game tonight?
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 sure did, what did I miss? I'm just wondering which goals were soft.
navybillsfan Posted March 10, 2007 Author Report Posted March 10, 2007 2 of 4 His traffic goals is where im worried.... Thats the D's fault too. But if you watch tape, other teams know this and are all now doing it to Buffalo.
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 2 of 4 His traffic goals is where im worried.... Thats the D's fault too. But if you watch tape, other teams know this and are all now doing it to Buffalo. So when there is traffic in front of him? I think most goalies have a hard time stopping the puck when they can't see it. Maybe that's just me though.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 Getting traffic in front of the goalie is how all 30 teams play, and is the way to beat all 30 starting goalies, not just Miller. Which two goals were soft?
Stoner Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 Ah yes, the Jim Lorentz school of analyzing goals. Miller never sees the puck when he's scored on! It's amazing! Does the guy have macular degeneration or something? Come on fellas, no reason to let Miller off the hook every night. We get it. He's good, and you love him. The hopes of Sabre Nation are on his slender shoulders. But you have to call it the way you see it, or don't see it, or whatever. Early on, he gave up a huge rebound, and you thought it might not be his night. He tends to move away from the post and give up some goals from below the end line, and I think that book is out on him. He also inexplicably allows tons of goals off little deflections out front, and obviously a lot of goals beat him from the blue line. Did he really not see Carney's floating shot? Actually, it was the classic Miller game. Some incredible saves, a great stop on Gaborik's PS, then some weird ones. I don't know where this is all heading come playoff time. I really don't.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 And on the other hand, there's no reason to crucify him every time he doesn't pitch a shutout or gives up more than two goals. Yes, he gave up 4 goals on 22 shots tonight - but the types of goals he gave up were tough for most goalies. A one-timer from the faceoff dot; a mini-breakaway, a bank shot off the back of his head; and a wrister that found its way through 4-5 guys. Stafford, Kalinin & Vanek's turnovers turned into so many quality scoring chances tonight that I was starting to wonder if they were pissed at Miller. And for the record, watching Ryan's reaction to Carney's floater - I honestly think he did not see it. I have no problem with criticizing Miller if he has a bad game or lets in legitimate bad goals. What I won't do is call him out on every goal that someone thinks could be stopped (hint: that's every goal) just for the sake of appearing to be "objective" or "not wearing my blue & gold glasses."
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I have no problem with criticizing Miller if he has a bad game or lets in legitimate bad goals. What I won't do is call him out on every goal that someone thinks could be stopped (hint: that's every goal) just for the sake of appearing to be "objective" or "not wearing my blue & gold glasses." Especially when dealing of the other of the post directly above yours :thumbsup:
Taro T Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I was at the game tonight. Thought Miller should have stopped the 1st and 4th. He stood on his head in the 2nd or else the team would have been down by much more than 2 after 2. Does anyone know what the "official" scoring chances were? Although Buffalo had 27 shots at the end of 2, it seemed they had about 4 legit scoring chances as most of those shots were from bad angles near the top of the circles with no traffic in front. I was very disappointed in their play tonight as Kaleta and Hecht seemed to be the only 2 Sabres on the ice that had solid games. Paetsch looked pretty good, but even he seemed a little off tonight. Overall there were a lot of bad decisions and looking for the cute play when a reasonable shot was available. Don't know if I expect them to bounce back tomorrow night or not, but I do expect them to play much better on Tuesday.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I was at the game tonight. Thought Miller should have stopped the 1st and 4th. He stood on his head in the 2nd or else the team would have been down by much more than 2 after 2. I'd say that the first one was one he'd probably like to have back, but I can understand how it went in - it was a bang-bang type play after a bad turnover by the "D" (Kalinin?) Watching the replay on the fourth goal, Ryan's reaction (at least to me) is that of a goalie who saw the play developing, never saw the actual shot, and then realized where it was too late. Excellent point about Ryan's play in the 2nd - we could all have been reaching for the remotes early in the second if he doesn't make some big saves to keep it close. Does anyone know what the "official" scoring chances were? Although Buffalo had 27 shots at the end of 2, it seemed they had about 4 legit scoring chances as most of those shots were from bad angles near the top of the circles with no traffic in front.Thank you. I made the point about the scoring chances in the GD thread - aside from MacArthur failing to bury that mini 2-on-1, Hecht hitting the post (dead-on, I might add) and Danny firing from all angles but unable to hit the net (10 SOG? come on) it seemed many of the the Sabres' shots and "scoring chances" were peppering Harding's sweater logo. Meanwhile, Gaborik had about a baker's dozen good scoring ops and plays that scared the $h!t out of me... I was very disappointed in their play tonight as Kaleta and Hecht seemed to be the only 2 Sabres on the ice that had solid games. Paetsch looked pretty good, but even he seemed a little off tonight. Overall there were a lot of bad decisions and looking for the cute play when a reasonable shot was available. There were a lot of mostly invisible Sabres (until his goal, Ryan; Teppo; Drury - faceoffs notwithstanding; Pominville) and a bunch of guys actively hurting the Sabres' cause (Campbell; Vanek; Stafford; Kalinin.) I hope they get their stuff together for tomorrow night against the Devils...
Claude Balls Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 Miller is a top 5 goalie in the league right now. Just because his offense has sucked ass for 2 games is not his fault. I'll take Miller in a shootout or OT any night of the week. The rest of the team needs to wake up right now.
bottlecap Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I like Harding, I hope we can make a play for him in the offseason. We were giving the Wild not a lot of shots but too many quality openings. I'm getting a bit frustrated with Miller.
Stoner Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I have no problem with criticizing Miller if he has a bad game or lets in legitimate bad goals. What I won't do is call him out on every goal that someone thinks could be stopped (hint: that's every goal) just for the sake of appearing to be "objective" or "not wearing my blue & gold glasses." If I go too far one way, you go too far the other. You guys can find every imaginable excuse for the goals he allows. Almost every goal can be explained by 1. A great shot 2. A bad bounce 3. A screen. After awhile, it's not how, but how many, and Miller is 18th in how many.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I will grant you that Lorentz, and some of us fans, are very forgiving on Sabres' goalies while being harsher on the opposition, but that comes with the territory. Should it be shocking that the color commentator or the fans of a team give the benefit of the doubt to our goalies? Knowing that Miller played pretty well in our deep playoff run last year, and that he is the guy who is going to have to carry us deep again this year, I'd rather be on the side of the fence that mostly sees the good in his play than on the side of the Chicken Littles, who see every damn thing that goes wrong and every suspect goal that goes in. . FWIW, since the team is giving up an average 32 shots per game, and Miller is stopping 91% of those shots - yes, I am generally happy with his numbers. Would I like his GAA to come down a little? Sure, I don't think there are a lot of people that like his GAA where it is right now. I also think that his numbers would come down a lot if the Sabres played "D" like Minnesota or Jersey - force everyone to shoot perimeter shots and freeze every rebound - but I'd rather see this team freewheel their way to 5-3 and 6-4 wins. I had more than enough of those offensively challenged Sabres teams winning 2-1 and 1-0 when Dom was here.
zow2 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I'm concerned about Miller. Seems like he gives up 3 or more an awful lot. I can't figure out if Miller just has penchant for giving up the little weak deflections and a softie here and there?? or if the team in general just gives up a lot of quality scoring chances with our style? Lately, Miller has seemed more comfortable on the road. At home he just flops around a lot. Bottom line is Miller is NOT an elite goalie over the past couple months and if the Sabres have any chance of winning the cup, he will have to get that GAA under 2.0 for the playoffs. Those games for the most part are not going to be wide open affairs. Buffalo has not shown me the ability to excel in low scoring games and it's starts with the goalie.
Stoner Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 BM, I like your winning equation. Good luck with that.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I'm concerned about Miller. Seems like he gives up 3 or more an awful lot. I can't figure out if Miller just has penchant for giving up the little weak deflections and a softie here and there?? or if the team in general just gives up a lot of quality scoring chances with our style? Lately, Miller has seemed more comfortable on the road. At home he just flops around a lot. Bottom line is Miller is NOT an elite goalie over the past couple months and if the Sabres have any chance of winning the cup, he will have to get that GAA under 2.0 for the playoffs. Those games for the most part are not going to be wide open affairs. Buffalo has not shown me the ability to excel in low scoring games and it's starts with the goalie. I agree that he needs to step it up and improve his focus, but IMO, the numbers you are talking about are not feasible, given the Sabres' style of play and the league's emphasis on goal scoring. Do you know how many goalies have a GAA under 2.00 right now, or had one under 2.00 in last year's playoffs? Two - currently Dom is at 2.04, and Bryzgalov was 1.46 in last year's playoffs. As for Miller's play over the last couple months - March's numbers are inflated due to yesterday and the 8-5 win over Montreal, but he had his second-best month of the year in February: October 8-0-1, 2.36, .921 November 4-2-1, 3.07, .903 December 8-3-0, 2.49, .922 January 4-5-1, 2.97, .900 February 6-2-1, 2.49, .919 March 2-2-0, 3.44, .882 Bottom line - Miller struggled some last year, then was pretty solid in the playoffs. I have no doubt that he'll be up to the challenge come April, May & June this year... PA - if all that falls into place, I think we can beat anyone in the league. But there are too many wildcards when it comes to the NHL playoffs...
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 Is anyone willing to go back and review game films to see how many goals come as a direct result of Kalinin turnovers or missed coverage? I know we're hard on Kalinin and our other defenseman make mistakes too...but Kalinin's often turn into goals.
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I agree that he needs to step it up and improve his focus, but IMO, the numbers you are talking about are not feasible, given the Sabres' style of play and the league's emphasis on goal scoring. Do you know how many goalies have a GAA under 2.00 right now, or had one under 2.00 in last year's playoffs? Two - currently Dom is at 2.04, and Bryzgalov was 1.46 in last year's playoffs. As for Miller's play over the last couple months - March's numbers are inflated due to yesterday and the 8-5 win over Montreal, but he had his second-best month of the year in February: October 8-0-1, 2.36, .921 November 4-2-1, 3.07, .903 December 8-3-0, 2.49, .922 January 4-5-1, 2.97, .900 February 6-2-1, 2.49, .919 March 2-2-0, 3.44, .882 Bottom line - Miller struggled some last year, then was pretty solid in the playoffs. I have no doubt that he'll be up to the challenge come April, May & June this year... PA - if all that falls into place, I think we can beat anyone in the league. But there are too many wildcards when it comes to the NHL playoffs... Miller's numbers tell you a few different things. First, in his 2nd full season in the NHL, he's still a little hot and cold. Of course, every goalie in the NHL is a little hot and cold. However, when he does have some off nights, they don't seem to effect him as much as last year. His slumps are shorter than last year. Which shows his experience have taught him to bounce back. For everyone concerned about his GAA...Look at the month where he had the best SV%: Dec. He had a .922. If he played at that pace all year long, it would currently have him 4th in the SV% leaders. Now, look at the GAA for the 3 with better SV%'s than that: 2.37, 2.23, 2.15. Ryan's was 2.49. That is significantly higher. I don't know about everyone else, but if my goalie is stopping 92% of the shots, I think he's playing good. That GAA tells me that the Sabres system is just one that allows more goals. Finally, Ryan's numbers may not be the best in the league, but he always comes up big in the clutch. While no stat can prove this, a couple different things indicate this. He is currently 4th in SV% in the shootout. Yes, there are no shootouts in playoffs, but that's still a good indicator of clutch performers. He looks even better considering Theodore is ranked number 1 and he's only faced 3 shots. Also, look at how he came up big in some of the Sabres big games last year. Eg: The big shootout win in Ottawa, Game 3 of the Philly series when everyone was questioning whether he should be our goalie, the entire Ottawa series, etc.
zow2 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I agree that he needs to step it up and improve his focus, but IMO, the numbers you are talking about are not feasible, given the Sabres' style of play and the league's emphasis on goal scoring. Do you know how many goalies have a GAA under 2.00 right now, or had one under 2.00 in last year's playoffs? Two - currently Dom is at 2.04, and Bryzgalov was 1.46 in last year's playoffs. As for Miller's play over the last couple months - March's numbers are inflated due to yesterday and the 8-5 win over Montreal, but he had his second-best month of the year in February: October 8-0-1, 2.36, .921 November 4-2-1, 3.07, .903 December 8-3-0, 2.49, .922 January 4-5-1, 2.97, .900 February 6-2-1, 2.49, .919 March 2-2-0, 3.44, .882 Bottom line - Miller struggled some last year, then was pretty solid in the playoffs. I have no doubt that he'll be up to the challenge come April, May & June this year... PA - if all that falls into place, I think we can beat anyone in the league. But there are too many wildcards when it comes to the NHL playoffs... Good stats, thanks. You're right in that he hasn't been as bad as it seems but I was speaking more over the last couple months and his record since January is very ho hum. We all watch the games and the situations he gives up iffy goals are the problem for me. It's not all about numbers. Sometimes he just watches the puck fly past his glove hand or go "through" him. Those goals I don't like. I also worry about his mental state. He still does not seem able to shrug off a bad game. He carries it with him, you can hear it in his voice when interviewed. I'm almost OK if we have to play a series on the road because I feel like he has more focus or maybe the Sabres as a team play a little tighter on the road...or a combination?
navybillsfan Posted March 11, 2007 Author Report Posted March 11, 2007 Miller's numbers tell you a few different things. First, in his 2nd full season in the NHL, he's still a little hot and cold. Of course, every goalie in the NHL is a little hot and cold. However, when he does have some off nights, they don't seem to effect him as much as last year. His slumps are shorter than last year. Which shows his experience have taught him to bounce back. For everyone concerned about his GAA...Look at the month where he had the best SV%: Dec. He had a .922. If he played at that pace all year long, it would currently have him 4th in the SV% leaders. Now, look at the GAA for the 3 with better SV%'s than that: 2.37, 2.23, 2.15. Ryan's was 2.49. That is significantly higher. I don't know about everyone else, but if my goalie is stopping 92% of the shots, I think he's playing good. That GAA tells me that the Sabres system is just one that allows more goals. Finally, Ryan's numbers may not be the best in the league, but he always comes up big in the clutch. While no stat can prove this, a couple different things indicate this. He is currently 4th in SV% in the shootout. Yes, there are no shootouts in playoffs, but that's still a good indicator of clutch performers. He looks even better considering Theodore is ranked number 1 and he's only faced 3 shots. Also, look at how he came up big in some of the Sabres big games last year. Eg: The big shootout win in Ottawa, Game 3 of the Philly series when everyone was questioning whether he should be our goalie, the entire Ottawa series, etc. So what your saying is we should base Miller off of last year? Go check out New Jersey and their Net God who produces every game, every year... Like tonight..... Miller is not prime time nor is this D, and that will be the difference this April when we are golfing in the second round
zow2 Posted March 11, 2007 Report Posted March 11, 2007 So what your saying is we should base Miller off of last year? Go check out New Jersey and their Net God who produces every game, every year... Like tonight..... Miller is not prime time nor is this D, and that will be the difference this April when we are golfing in the second round Brodeur is just solid, solid, solid...nearly EVERY game. His team knows how to win the 2-1 or 3-2 type of games in their sleep. That's what we will see all playoffs long. At this rate I'm not even sure if Buffalo will fend off Ottawa? The Sabs might be the 4th seed for all we know? I can't say Buffalo played bad tonight or Miller was bad but 3 straight home games he has been outplayed by the opponents goalie and that does not include the 5 he gave up to Montreal. Not looking too good Ryan. Maybe the road will be kinder to you!
Bmwolf21 Posted March 11, 2007 Report Posted March 11, 2007 So what your saying is we should base Miller off of last year? Go check out New Jersey and their Net God who produces every game, every year... Like tonight..... Miller is not prime time nor is this D, and that will be the difference this April when we are golfing in the second round So you would rather compare our 3rd year goaltender, who has played the equivalent of 2 full seasons (116 games) to a 13-year superstar who has two Vezinas, 9 ASG selections, three Stanley Cups, and is second all-time in wins by a goaltender? :blink: Where is this debate going? You want me to concede that Miller is not an elite goaltender yet? Done. Has he struggled to find consistency this year - a sophomore slump - while letting in some questionable goals? Sure. As I mentioned before, I have no problem with calling him on legitimate bad goals - but just because the puck ends up in the net, it doesn't mean it was just the goalies' fault. How do you give up a 2-on-1 shorthanded, that turns into a 3-on-2 with a trailer walking in untouched on the goalie? Should Ryan have stopped that shot - probably. Should Rafalski have even gotten that scoring chance? Not in my book. My view of Ryan is this: he is a good to above average goalie, who fits the system the Sabres style of play, gives them confidence to play their up-tempo, attacking system, and has playoff experience, so I think he'll be fine come April, May and June.
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