Knightrider Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Welcome to the board, Jack. As you can see, the nail that sticks up quickly gets pounded down. Keep your helmet on tight! I'm not going to agree with any serious criticism of Darcy right now, but I will agree Zubrus looks a little lost so far. Hopefully he follows the Stu Barnes footprint and saves his goals for the playoffs. Absolutely, welcome! BTW, after reading today's TDiSH, I am here to say, that Jillson and a 9th for Brown and Delmore is not one of Darcy's better moves...
Stoner Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Only if the nail sticks up for no other reason than to stand out... Jack's a relatively new poster, but I don't think his post was contrived or merely an attempt to announce himself or "stand out" with an outrageous opinion. I applaud him for challenging us with a different perspective on DR. Or maybe you were talkin' to me. You talkin' to me? Don't agitate the dots... I am hopeful. You have to be hopeful on a day such as this in the twin tiers, eh?
jackb Posted March 9, 2007 Author Report Posted March 9, 2007 Dave- good point on 23 . My mistake but why wasn't he signed by Feb 1st if the front office had all that time to assess his worth? When anyone (48 included.. on HNIC last sat.) talks about the biggest reason the Canes won last year is the addition on Recchi and Weight which were done in advance on the deadline. Carolina got the jump on everyone. Similar to the Rangers this year getting Sean Avery for Jason Ward. Avery has totally changed the attitude in NYC. Imagine him in Buffalo for the playoffs? Other possible playoff type fits that could have been had are Ian Laperriere (yes I saw Kaleta punk him too) at 900k and Villie Nieminen who I believe is cheaper. Don't tell me Darcy couldn't put together a fair package for any one of these guys.
X. Benedict Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Other possible playoff type fits that could have been had are Ian Laperriere at 900k and Villie Nieminen who I believe is cheaper. Don't tell me Darcy couldn't put together a fair package for any one of these guys. He could of, but why would he want to? I don't see how Nieminen helps - on the 4th line with Mair? Or getting Laperriere as an agitator? I think one of the larger needs was getting another faceoff guy. Esp. if Drury gets tossed late in a game, now you have a wing (in Zubrus) that has a decent chance of winning the draw.
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Dave- good point on 23 . My mistake but why wasn't he signed by Feb 1st if the front office had all that time to assess his worth? When anyone (48 included.. on HNIC last sat.) talks about the biggest reason the Canes won last year is the addition on Recchi and Weight which were done in advance on the deadline. Carolina got the jump on everyone. Similar to the Rangers this year getting Sean Avery for Jason Ward. Avery has totally changed the attitude in NYC. Imagine him in Buffalo for the playoffs? Other possible playoff type fits that could have been had are Ian Laperriere (yes I saw Kaleta punk him too) at 900k and Villie Nieminen who I believe is cheaper. Don't tell me Darcy couldn't put together a fair package for any one of these guys. Give Avery some time...he will start acting like Avery again. I'm sure that Darcy would have loved to make some more additions, but the fact is the team is up against the cap, while Carolina had a ton of cap space last year, not to mention the fact that the price for players was much higher this year. Also, keep in mind that Weight was brought in to replace Cole.
Taro T Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Dave- good point on 23 . My mistake but why wasn't he signed by Feb 1st if the front office had all that time to assess his worth? When anyone (48 included.. on HNIC last sat.) talks about the biggest reason the Canes won last year is the addition on Recchi and Weight which were done in advance on the deadline. Carolina got the jump on everyone. Similar to the Rangers this year getting Sean Avery for Jason Ward. Avery has totally changed the attitude in NYC. Imagine him in Buffalo for the playoffs? Other possible playoff type fits that could have been had are Ian Laperriere (yes I saw Kaleta punk him too) at 900k and Villie Nieminen who I believe is cheaper. Don't tell me Darcy couldn't put together a fair package for any one of these guys. The most likely reason he hasn't been signed to date is, the Sabres and Chris have not agreed on a mutually agreeable contract yet. (The answer isn't meant to be as flippant as it sounds.) Apus and I had this same discussion about McKee several times last year, and I still believe that in order for the Sabres to get Drury to give up something of value to him (the right to have 30 teams contesting for his services) they will have to give up something as well (basically, they will have to overpay him). The Sabres haven't been willing to do that to this point (or there would currently be a deal). I don't mind the Sabres "overpaying" for him because with the intangibles he brings, as I don't really think they can overpay for him until they start getting above $7MM/year. I do expect to see him in b&g next year. I would like to see the Sabres sign both Drury and Danny but don't expect to see that happen. Primarily because I think some other team will put a $7MM or so price tag on Danny and don't believe the Sabres value him THAT highly. (They DO value him highly, I just don't think they value him as much as other teams will, and I believe Danny and his agent know that and that is most likely why they haven't worked out a deal to date and quite likely won't work out a deal.) Getting off track slightly, I don't think the Sabres can afford to pay 2 guys $7MM+ each. Not because of what mid-level guys they'd have to lose this year, but because of what mid-level guys they'd have to lose EVERY year. Miller is going to make a small fortune after '08-'09 and many of the mid-level guys are going to be due big raises when their contracts come up (and a few come up each year). If Danny and Chris are both signed to huge deals, the Sabres probably have to lose 2-3 quality players at below value every single year that both Danny and Chris are signed for. Back on point. Weight was not the biggest reason the Canes won last season, he wasn't even a significant factor. Recchi was a big factor, but there were 3 other factors that were at least as big IMHO. 1. The Canes, until Game 6 of the Finals, when Cole came back, didn't lose 1 single man game throughout the playoffs to injury. Compare that to their opponents who lost their Captain (Moe-ray-all), 4 defensemen and their most creative forward (Buffalo), and their #1 goalie (Edmonton). (OTTOMH, I can't remember who, if anyone, Joisey lost, but the other series were definitely effected by injuries and the lack thereof.) 2. When the Canes were reeling in the 1st round, that hack Justin Williams high sticked Koivu in the eye and completely turned that series around. Even with Ward in net in that 3rd game, the Canes were losing until after Koivu was out. If Koivu is in, the Canes are out, quite likely in a sweep. 3. Ward played out of his gourd and Gerber was good enough when he'd sub back in during the few times Ward faltered. Do you know Darcy didn't make a run at any of the players you would like to have seen here? (I suspect he didn't as I don't agree that either would have significantly upgraded this squad.) You have now given some names, but haven't stated what you'd expect to have had to give up to get them. Darcy might very well have put together what you or I would consider a "fair package" to Colorado for Laperriere, but why would San Jose have given up Niemennen for a "fair package" when they are trying to make a SC run as well?
Hawerchuk Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Lord Stanley's Cup will cure ALL problems. LET'S GO BUFFALO!!
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Jack's a relatively new poster, but I don't think his post was contrived or merely an attempt to announce himself or "stand out" with an outrageous opinion. I applaud him for challenging us with a different perspective on DR. Or maybe you were talkin' to me. You talkin' to me? Don't agitate the dots... You have to be hopeful on a day such as this in the twin tiers, eh? I think the point is that most of us are willing to accept a dissent if it's a logical and well thought out argument. Also, not throwing out an insult in the title of your thread helps. And yes I was mentioning you, sometimes you make some great points, and sometimes you try to insult the rest of us for not going along with your not so great points.
shrader Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Jack's a relatively new poster, but I don't think his post was contrived or merely an attempt to announce himself or "stand out" with an outrageous opinion. I applaud him for challenging us with a different perspective on DR. I'd agree if there had actually been a Regier lovefest going on all over the place on the board. This whole thread would be the same thing as me going over to TSW and saying that I'm sick of all the people who keep talking about how Tim Anderson is a solid defensive lineman. When someone shows up and keeps spouting off one negative comment after another, it makes me think of it as nothing more than one of those "fans" who hates everything, regardless of any actual on or off ice performance. As for the original post, it looks like the main issue is with not re-signing guys ahead of time. I think dave has summed up my view on the whole thing pretty well. There are two sides to a contract negotiation, but fans are so quick to blame the GM each time something doesn't go the way they'd like it to go.
envirojeff Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Regier couldn't have signed 23 to a long term deal toward the end of the last regular season. It isn't allowed under the CBA. As for Briere, we don't know what the Sabres were offering, but the rumors I heard was that the deal was in the $4MM range; so no, I don't believe Briere would have signed for $3.5MM/year last March. Obviously, I want to see Vanek signed and do think there is a very real possibility another team will make him an offer if he isn't signed prior to becoming a FA. Do you think it takes 2 parties to negotiate? Thought so. <_< Also, considering that Darcy signed ~12 regulars to multiyear deals this offseason, he added defensive depth at this trade deadline, and he has had discussions with Drury's agent during the season (and I assume the other soon to be RFA's and UFA's as well) it would appear that Darcy does "learn from his mistakes". Brendan Witt isn't the player I was referring to, but as stated before, I think bashing Darcy for not picking up a D-man would be a more valid criticism than the moves (or lack thereof) that you are criticizing him for. As far as Zubrus is concerned, obviously, you didn't like that move. I ask again, who did you want to see the Sabres bring in, what would you have given up for him, and how would you have fit him in under the cap? Heck, Darcy "should" have brought in Chris Pronger and Alex Ovechkin, it doesn't mean there was any possible way either would have or could have happened. I certainly hope not. :o :lol: I agree with your responce to this post. Dave, do you think Jackb would have complained if Darcy would have let the trade deadline go by without signing anyone? :D Jeff
shrader Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 I agree with your responce to this post. Dave, do you think Jackb would have complained if Darcy would have let the trade deadline go by without signing anyone? :D Jeff Personally, I get the feeling that he would've complained no matter what they did.
Stoner Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 He could of, but why would he want to? I don't see how Nieminen helps - on the 4th line with Mair? Or getting Laperriere as an agitator? I think one of the larger needs was getting another faceoff guy. Esp. if Drury gets tossed late in a game, now you have a wing (in Zubrus) that has a decent chance of winning the draw. How decent of a chance though? He was below 50 percent, just a hair though, when he was traded here. Probably a little over the break-even point now with that one particularly good night... I guess that qualifies as "decent."
shrader Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 How decent of a chance though? He was below 50 percent, just a hair though, when he was traded here. Probably a little over the break-even point now with that one particularly good night... I guess that qualifies as "decent." What more can you expect from a guy playing the wing (if that is indeed where he ends up come playoff time)? I've never seen the stats, but I think it's a safe bet that players who replace a tossed center on a faceoff have a much lower percentage than that.
inkman Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 who promised that MSG would look more like HNIC this season..... Why would a building in NJ look like Barak Obama? :ph34r:
X. Benedict Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 How decent of a chance though? He was below 50 percent, just a hair though, when he was traded here. Probably a little over the break-even point now with that one particularly good night... I guess that qualifies as "decent." I don't think you want to go into the playoffs without at least 4 guys that can take a faceoff: #1 Drury #2 Briere #3 Zubrus #4 Roy Even though Zubrus is under 50% at 49 and change, he has far more faceoff experience than Briere or Roy. If Briere or Drury is injured in the Playoffs - people would be screaming at Regier that he should have remedied this when Gaustad went out. Come crunch time you need two guys out on the ice that can win a draw and esp. in the Defensive Zone I don't think you want Briere on the defensive wing moving backward on a draw. Was Zubrus the best answer? I don't know. Yannic P. was available, but he probably can't take a regular shift.
Stoner Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Yannic P. was available, but he probably can't take a regular shift. Has he tried Metamucil?
jackb Posted March 9, 2007 Author Report Posted March 9, 2007 Dave- We disagree on how 23&48 have been handled as far as contract wise....oh well. I respect your point of view. To say that Weight didn't do much in the post season is not accurate. While far from having a huge impact he did play a solid role. After all, he tied the game at 2-2 in Game 7 vs. Buffalo. I'd say that was a big goal. And to your point as to why would San Jose ever deal Nieminen when they want the SC as well? Good question....you'll have to ask the Sharks why they would do such a thing as well..... They dealt him to St. Louis at the deadline.
DR HOLLIDAY Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 I look at DR from this perspective, he adjusted to what he though the new style of play in the NHL would be before anyone else did, he made mostly very good trades and filled the Sabre team with reasonably priced talent..............He also has set up a very good farm system that is gonna put the Sabres on a Jersey like level of consistancy that we are starting to see with the very respectable play of the players that have been filling in for the Sabres injured during the past couple of weeks............I also think that we had a great playoff run last year and due to some very bad luck with injuries we lost to the eventual Stanley Cup champs in 7 games............I think that no GM can be perfect and mistakes will always happen, thats just the nature of the beast................But having to watch the long suffering leaf fans that live around me, (although getting to mock this is wicked fun), the job that DR has done and is doing is very good one, now whether you can consider the shape of this franchise several years ago, when we all thought that we might be losing our beloved Sabres, I can say one thing, this is a great time to be a Sabre fan...............For Christ sakes enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............................ :beer:
Taro T Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Dave- We disagree on how 23&48 have been handled as far as contract wise....oh well. I respect your point of view. To say that Weight didn't do much in the post season is not accurate. While far from having a huge impact he did play a solid role. After all, he tied the game at 2-2 in Game 7 vs. Buffalo. I'd say that was a big goal. And to your point as to why would San Jose ever deal Nieminen when they want the SC as well? Good question....you'll have to ask the Sharks why they would do such a thing as well..... They dealt him to St. Louis at the deadline. Yes, they did deal him at the deadline. They got Bill Guerin for him, a prospect, and a 1st rounder. You seem pretty high on the guy, but do you really think that he brings more to the Sharks than Guerin does? The Sharks gave him up to get a player that most people would consider to be a significant upgrade, and he was the only rostered player the Sharks gave up for Guerin. I honestly don't see the Sharks giving him up for a minor leaguer or draft pick. We'll have to agree to disagree about Dead Weight. I would say the other 4 factors were MUCH more significant in the Canes run.
hopeleslyobvious Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 Dave- We disagree on how 23&48 have been handled as far as contract wise....oh well. I respect your point of view. To say that Weight didn't do much in the post season is not accurate. While far from having a huge impact he did play a solid role. After all, he tied the game at 2-2 in Game 7 vs. Buffalo. I'd say that was a big goal. And to your point as to why would San Jose ever deal Nieminen when they want the SC as well? Good question....you'll have to ask the Sharks why they would do such a thing as well..... They dealt him to St. Louis at the deadline. How do you want Drury and Briere handled? Both signed no matter what the cost? Sure it would be nice to have both of them in the blue and gold again next year, but there is a limit on how much you can spend. Every dollar extra you pay 1 player, is a dollar you can't spend on your depth. The more depth you have the tougher you are to beat. If you spend all your money on a couple of players, other teams can shut you down by just matching up against that line. If you spread your money around and have a whole team of good players it becomes much more difficult. I like Briere and Drury, but 2 or 3 good players is a better way to spend $6-7 million than spending it on one great one. Now maybe it is worth it to spend that much money on one of the two...but not both.
deluca67 Posted March 9, 2007 Report Posted March 9, 2007 How do you want Drury and Briere handled? Both signed no matter what the cost? Sure it would be nice to have both of them in the blue and gold again next year, but there is a limit on how much you can spend. Every dollar extra you pay 1 player, is a dollar you can't spend on your depth. The more depth you have the tougher you are to beat. If you spend all your money on a couple of players, other teams can shut you down by just matching up against that line. If you spread your money around and have a whole team of good players it becomes much more difficult. I like Briere and Drury, but 2 or 3 good players is a better way to spend $6-7 million than spending it on one great one. Now maybe it is worth it to spend that much money on one of the two...but not both. If the Sabres are going to have two $7 million players? I'd rather have Drury and Ryan Smith.
jackb Posted March 10, 2007 Author Report Posted March 10, 2007 Dave- I guess we'll just have to see come June how things shake out. I hate the Zubrus deal for reasons that will really be evident come playoff time. You're right.....we agree to disagree on many things but I know we both agree on seeing 23&48 hold that damn Cup up in June.
Sabresince70 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 I don't think you want to go into the playoffs without at least 4 guys that can take a faceoff: #1 Drury #2 Briere #3 Zubrus #4 Roy Even though Zubrus is under 50% at 49 and change, he has far more faceoff experience than Briere or Roy. If Briere or Drury is injured in the Playoffs - people would be screaming at Regier that he should have remedied this when Gaustad went out. Come crunch time you need two guys out on the ice that can win a draw and esp. in the Defensive Zone I don't think you want Briere on the defensive wing moving backward on a draw. Was Zubrus the best answer? I don't know. Yannic P. was available, but he probably can't take a regular shift. I think it is fair to say that Hecht gives Briere that much needed winger who can take a draw as well. I would hope that crunch time, defensive zone draws, that one of these two lines are out. And now they each have a right handed and left handed experience person to take them.
Bmwolf21 Posted March 10, 2007 Report Posted March 10, 2007 If the Sabres are going to have two $7 million players? I'd rather have Drury and Ryan Smith.The $5M range is at the high end of what I'd pay Smyth...if the Sabres (or anyone) signs Smyth for $7M, they better get him to do some extra stuff around the arena - maybe work the Zamboni, refill the concession stand condiments, clean the restrooms, plow the parking lots, sell programs before the game...
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