Ryan Miller: over-rated?

[El Chucko]

I like Ryan Miller, and I have seen him play very, very well. He took Marty's job because of his consistency, in my opinion. But, is he over-rated?

 

His stats aren't particularly good. He seems almost incapable of getting a shutout. We have all seen him steal a period or two, but has he ever really stolen a whole game?

 

If he was behind a low-scoring team (Devils, etc.), how would he fare?

[Corp000085]

He plays not to lose... Will that bite him? yes, it will. However, he's better than the other goalie most nights, which is all you can ask. I've got high confidence in him in crunch time though. his OT/shootout records as well as his record with a lead going into the 3rd period are all outstanding, and he did very well in the playoffs. He's not overrated, but he's not hasek either. Ryan Miller will win you the big game. He may not get a shutout in the big game, but chances are, he'll win.

[apuszczalowski]

He plays not to lose... Will that bite him? yes, it will. However, he's better than the other goalie most nights, which is all you can ask. I've got high confidence in him in crunch time though. his OT/shootout records as well as his record with a lead going into the 3rd period are all outstanding, and he did very well in the playoffs. He's not overrated, but he's not hasek either. Ryan Miller will win you the big game. He may not get a shutout in the big game, but chances are, he'll win.

EXACTLY

 

and this is something I think fans need to get through their heads. Buffalo fans have been spoiled having Hasek as a goalie.

 

Miller is no Hasek, or even a Brodeur. These are Great goalies and in a league of their own. Miller may not be the best right now (in his second full season) but he is a top level goalie in the league.

 

you also have to look at the styles the teams play. Buffalo is a team that takes chances to score tons of goals and often leaves the goalie hung out to dry. NJ plays a defensive style where if they can score a goal, they shut down and play to keep you from scoring. That makes any goalie look great

[Bmwolf21]

I think that Ryan hasn't yet played a full season in the NHL - 48 games last year and 47 this year. I think he is a very good goalie who is his own worst critic, and is still learning how to maintain an even keel, not getting too high or low between goals & games. As a result, I think he was looking over his shoulder a bit with Marty here, and I think he'll be better off without that crutch.

 

I agree with apus 100% - Ryan (and every other Sabres goalie) skates in the shadow of Dom's legacy, which magnifies his shortcomings.

 

He was fine in the playoffs last year - 11-7, 2.56, .908 - so I have no reservations about him being between the pipes.

 

Corp, how does a goalie play not to lose?

[Corp000085]

 

Corp, how does a goalie play not to lose?

 

 

that's a PC way of saying he'll let in complete garbage goals to blow shutouts, ruin PK stats, etc. but he'll shut it down when need be... like in OT, the shootout, or the 3rd period of tight games (except for tonight. this is a shootout, which negates all arguments about goalie strengths and weaknesses).

[JohnRobertEichel]

Maybe our defensemen are the ones who are overrated? I can recall so many goals this season where the D-men were completely to blame. Spacek and Kalinin are total trash. Campbell is good, but not starting All-Star good. Tallinder needs to take some calcium and Vitamin C supplements.

[Corp000085]

Maybe our defensemen are the ones who are overrated? I can recall so many goals this season where the D-men were completely to blame. Spacek and Kalinin are total trash. Campbell is good, but not starting All-Star good. Tallinder needs to take some calcium and Vitamin C supplements.

 

i'd like to see spacek after he comes back. hopefully this break will give him plenty of time to think about his future, seeing paetsch steal his spot.

[BetweenThePipes00]

If he was behind a low-scoring team (Devils, etc.), how would he fare?

 

Who cares? How would Brodeur fare behind the Sabres? His numbers would not be as good but he's win just as much, just like Miller does.

 

They don't give bonus points for shutouts. When Miller starts losing 2-1 and 3-2 games because he gives up bad goals, then it is something to worry about.

[Stoner]

 

Who cares? How would Brodeur fare behind the Sabres? His numbers would not be as good but he's win just as much, just like Miller does.

 

They don't give bonus points for shutouts. When Miller starts losing 2-1 and 3-2 games because he gives up bad goals, then it is something to worry about.

 

 

Do you think style of play explains Brodeur's 12 shutouts and Miller's two (I think)? The shots on goal each team allows are pretty close. At least it's not like comparing Detroit and Buffalo. The Wings keep their shots down to a ridiculous number. I don't know... I think Brodeur's better. That's no knock on Miller. Martin is one of the greats of this era, better even than Hasek, IMHO.

[thesportsbuff]

I think he's not so much overrated as he is hyped up in our area. We have high expectations for him because of our past disasters. He's a great goaltender but can let in some real flukes, which is why I was a big Marty fan. But now Miller is the guy and I thought he played a very good game against Toronto. Some days he shows up, other days he doesn't. But tonights game was packed with goals, so you almost wonder if your team scoring so many goals makes you lose focus.

[Claude Balls]

Do you think style of play explains Brodeur's 12 shutouts and Miller's two (I think)? The shots on goal each team allows are pretty close. At least it's not like comparing Detroit and Buffalo. The Wings keep their shots down to a ridiculous number. I don't know... I think Brodeur's better. That's no knock on Miller. Martin is one of the greats of this era, better even than Hasek, IMHO.

You cannot compare Miller to Brodeur. The style of defense these two teams play are completely different. I bet Miller would have plenty of shutouts if he were playing for NJ. Jersey's d-men clear out the front of the net a hell of a lot better than ours, thus giving Brodeur cleaner looks at the shots coming in. Many of the goals Miller lets in are through screens where he can't see the puck coming in. Our d-men need to be more physical in front, but I don't think any of them play with that mean streak you need to get nasty in front, ala Colin White.

[SabresFan526]

Tonight is a bad barometer to base Ryan's play, I think. 4 of the 5 goals were on the powerplay, and Montreal has the #1 power play in the league. Second, given our style of play, it's very up-tempo and often times Ryan is hung out to dry. Purely from a style of play perspective, this team is very similar to the 80s Oilers teams. Grant Fuhr often was winning 6-5 and 7-6 games. They would leave him out to dry regularly, and Coffey would frequently rush the play, hence him getting so many points. I'm not comparing the talent of the 2 teams, because I am not disillusioned enough to think we have a Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Coffey, or Anderson on this team. But, the styles of play are very similar and because of it our goalie will end up giving up a lot of goals. The Sabres style of play is to score more goals than the other team as opposed to giving up less goals than scored. The Devils play the latter style of hockey. And, that's pretty much how hockey has been played for most of the 90s. That's why Brodeur has been so successful. I'm okay with Miller having bad stats so long as he keeps winning, and so long as he continues to make clutch saves. His shootout record is enough to show his ability to make the clutch save, and that's the most important thing, not his GAA or Save Percentage. It's all about wins.

[Bmwolf21]

Nobody really mentioned it in the GD thread, and I'll come across as a Miller fanboy or something ridiculous like that, but tonight was a night where I truly felt Miller was the victim of some bad bounces and a couple bad plays by his "D."

 

On a side note, despite being a shootout, tonight's game was completely different experience for both goalies. Aebischer looked awful, just awful, while Miller couldn't get a bounce to save his life.

[bottlecap]

I like the kid personally, he has a great attitude. But I just don't think he's a great

goalie, or even very good. He's just good. He seems to need a crisis to get him focused.

He plays well with the game on the line but too often he is the cause for the game being

on the line in the first place. Early in games he seems to lose his concentration and doesn't

know where the puck is. I'm just not convinced.

 

Not that Biron was any better.

[gregkash]

I've thought about this a lot.

 

We have to remember Miller gets left to dry about 150% more of the time than normal goalies, because of the style we play.. And that's a decision Lindy Ruff makes.

 

I never really see him get beat clean.. I mean it happens, but most of the time, it's some weird bounce behind the net that comes out in front.. It's happened so much to us I figure teams have to be using it.. Or it'll go off our defensemen who are told to try and get a piece of it whenever they can..

 

the bottom line though, he is a winner. He wins game. That's all you can ask of your goaltender.. he makes the save when the game is on the line.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Sad to see many people posting who really don't seem to know much about how the Sabres play hockey and how many big saves that Miller bails the Sabres out night after night............I really think the best comparison might be Grant Fuhr and the Oilers of the 80s..........Grant was not a stat , but man you could count on him to make some crazy save when his team needed him and then his team would score............For those that can't see the skill for the sake of the numbers, then that is something you will never understand.......Perhaps the NHL needs another stat for goalies, like a QB percentage in football, breakaway saves, 2 on 1 saves etc........... :beer:

[El Chucko]

Sad to see many people posting who really don't seem to know much about how the Sabres play hockey... ...For those that can't see the skill for the sake of the numbers, then that is something you will never understand.......Perhaps the NHL needs another stat for goalies, like a QB percentage in football, breakaway saves, 2 on 1 saves etc........... :beer:

Since, apparently, you do, why don't YOU come up with another stat? The numbers are out there.

[Rico7]

The guy wins.

[drnkirishone]

I'm willing to bet Miller or any goalie in nets for Buffalo sees 5 to 15 more scoring chances a game then a NJ goalie or a Red Wings goalie

[Kristian]

Miller will make the big save with the big game on the line, and he'll have blunders in the big game, when it's not on the line.

 

IMHO he's there when you need him.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Just a few thoughts for those who are quick to praise Brodeur...last year they had very similar numbers (Miller better SV%, Brodeur better GAA)...Also, since Ryan has had the starting job, his SV% is right around the same as Brodeur's career SV%. IMHO SV% is a much more accurate goalie stat than SV%.

 

And for PA: I realize the Sabres and Devils give up almost the same amount of shots, but have you ever stayed awake for an entire Devils game? Can you honestly say that the Devils give up as many quality shots as the Sabres?

 

I've brought this up before, but it is very difficult to play goalie in our new system, just look at Biron's numbers pre and post lockout. Maybe it's a coincidence that he had a significant dropoff in his stats when the Sabres changed their system, but IMHO the system is at least partially responsible for it.

[gregkash]

it's really simple logic..

 

if you play conservative and force long outside shots, your goalie will have an easy time stopping 30 of those. If you're trying to be aggerssive and you give up the plays, cross ice passes, slot chances, in doing this, they're gonna score more often...

 

What you're doing is betting that the chances you gain will outweigh the ones you give up and a large part of that is Miller coming up big on those chances..

 

Zubrus has already said about 500 times that Buffalo is an all out attack team.. well when you attack all out, you give up as well.. Imagine if Kalinin had wiffed that pass from pominville, that's a 3 on 1 right there.. A lot of teams would not have let Kalinin move up into that play... and they would have not had a scoring chance there.

[eball]

Sad to see many people posting who really don't seem to know much about how the Sabres play hockey and how many big saves that Miller bails the Sabres out night after night............I really think the best comparison might be Grant Fuhr and the Oilers of the 80s..........Grant was not a stat , but man you could count on him to make some crazy save when his team needed him and then his team would score............For those that can't see the skill for the sake of the numbers, then that is something you will never understand.......Perhaps the NHL needs another stat for goalies, like a QB percentage in football, breakaway saves, 2 on 1 saves etc........... :beer:

I started reading this thread and was waiting for the Grant Fuhr analogy. I think it's spot on, although Ryan needs to backstop the Sabres to a Cup before he's truly in Fuhr's class. Buffalo's wheeling and dealing style hangs Ryan out to dry often, and he does make those big saves to keep them in the game. I can live with the occasional "soft" goal.

 

Put Ryan in a defensively-minded system and I bet his GAA is pretty close to 2.

[cdexchange]

IMHO SV% is a much more accurate goalie stat than SV%.

:blink:

 

:nana:

[Corp000085]

I care about one stat: Wins. Ryan Miller gets them, therefore he's a good goalie. Call me when he turns into robert esche, tim thomas, or some other goalie from a crappy team.

 

 

We'll only know how great miller is when he's the only good player on the ice. That's why we know what we had in marty biron. He was the best player on the ice for the sabres for 5 years, and he was a decent goalie. The true test of ryan miller will be when he's the best player on the ice for the sabres, ala hasek in the 90's, and brodeur with the devils. If the devils shut out a team 1-0 and the sabres beat a team 8-5, they're both wins, and nothing else matters.

 

 

Also, i hate the argument "if you put brodeur on the sabres with their style of play..." Listen, marty brodeur has like 4 rings. He's a future hall of famer. Sure, the devils play a conservative style, but give him some credit... Miller can't even stand in his shoes yet. Wait till he has a ring of his own.