PalmTreeMafia

I don't think I've ever been simultaneously this angry and this elated at a game's conclusion. At least we get to talk about how we're still "IN THE HUNT" for another week. We want the Titans, Jags, Jets, and Chargers to lose today. And the Ravens to lose tonight. I still remain fairly convinced that the Bills will need to win out in order to make the playoffs.

A tie is essentially a loss in the playoff race! WTF Coach McJesus!?

One of the very worst losses during this pathetic 18-year drought. unbelievable.

This is what Buffalo sports message boards seem to be about nowadays: always wanting to lose for higher draft picks, always wanting to trade away players for more draft picks and prospects, always wanting to build for a future that never comes, never actually caring that much about winning games in the moment. I wonder if Buffalo Sabres/Bills internet boards were this bad in the 90's, back when our teams actually did win with some regularity. Personally, I'd much rather go on a few win streaks and have our players begin meeting expectations rather than increase our lottery chances by about 5-10%.

I have an uncomfortable feeling that I will be excoriated for starting this thread. But if you already bothered to click, then at least hear me out! Reasons for it happening: 1. It would certainly generate a heck of a lot of enthusiasm for this moribund franchise. Let's face it: this is perhaps the lowest point in franchise history, maybe even worse than the Rigas scandal and the 2007 off-season. A record seven straight years of no playoffs now, an entire team of epic underachievers, and no hope in sight other than an unlikely chance of a draft lottery win and maybe future Nobel Prize winner Casey Mittelstud being a stud. Terry Pegula is a terrible owner, perhaps the worst in pro sports, but he does at least care about winning and is at least willing to throw big money around. Weren't we legitimately interested in Stamkos at one point? 2. It would give us an immediate team captain actually worthy of the letter. There is currently a vacant leadership spot on the roster, and neither Eichel nor O'Reilly has shown to have the temperament to be true team leaders. 3. Oh yeah, the talent....Tavares is a likely future Hall of Famer. The Sabres at the moment have a lot of players with "potential," but a proven star is another thing altogether. 4. I think we can afford it! Early this summer, I crunched numbers and determined that the Sabres would probably be able to keep Kane, Lehner, and Reinhart for about $14 million or so per year but wouldnt have any more cap room to sign anyone else. Well since the summer, we've learned that Kane and Lehner are likely on their way out, Reinhart will be pretty cheap due to his pathetic season, and the salary cap is expected to rise a decent amount for next year. We also can figure that O'Reilly and Risto might now be moved. Pominville has only 1 year left of $5 million. Bogosian, Beaulieu, and Moulson are dead weight with 1-/2-year expiring contracts that can also be traded or bought out. 5. It's the second closest NHL city to his hometown, and I don't see Toronto as a major player for his services given that team's already loaded offense. 6. He has an uncle (the older John Tavares, Buffalo lacrosse legend and current Bandits assistant coach) and a buddy or two (Okposo, perhaps Moulson in spite of his banishment) who could sell him on how freaking awesome it is to play pro sports in Buffalo. Reasons against: 1. He may want to play for an immediate winner. 2. He may like playing for the Isles enough to re-sign. 3. Spending $20 million+ on two players is...well...always a bit concerning. Ok, discuss!

Right, but I don't consider moving to another arena somewhere on Long Island a relocation. I'm talking about moving to a completely different metropolitan area. The NHL has worked really hard to keep Arizona, Florida, and Carolina right where they are. Why wouldn't they do the same for a franchise like the Islanders with a great history and a loyal fanbase?

Are the Islanders actually a threat to relocate?

Moulson waived = Sabres win....who's next?! I nominate Josh Gorges.

Good topic. I'll take a stab at it, and then hopefully those more knowledgeable can make corrections. I'll do a simple binary categorization of fast/fast enough vs. slow/speed problematic in common game situations. Here are the players I believe are considered to be fast or at least fast enough for most common pro game situations (4D + 9F): Ristolainen, Beaulieu, Bogosian, Antipin, Bailey, Baptiste, Fasching, Eichel, Criscuolo, Girgensons, Kane, Pouliot, Nolan. And here are the slugs (3D + 5F): Scandella, McCabe, Gorges, Okposo, Pominville, O'Reilly, Larsson, Reinhart. My take: I dont think this team is really all that slow? It's true that JB wants the team to get faster and has been taking steps toward doing so, but the rebuilding process is not and shouldn't be a simple process of adding fast players and removing the slow ones. There is plenty of roster space on successful NHL teams for players like Scandella, McCabe, Okposo, O'Reilly, and Reinhart. Faster players like Mittelstadt, Nylander, Guhle, and Bailey should be here full-time next season, too.

Instead of that late round pick, I'd want a solid (but not first pair) Housley-style defenseman in his twenties. We could take on a bad contract to make such a trade happen.

There are plenty of idiots out there who still think the Bills would have beaten the Chargers if only Taylor had started instead of Peterman. These people tend to forget games like today where the Buffalo defense gives up 200+ rushing yards and Taylor completes less than 5 total passes to the WR's on the roster. Some of these idiots even have professional jobs as NFL analysts. There are lots of reasons to criticize Coach McJesus, but the first half benching of Taylor in LA seems to be among the least egregious. I just finished watching the clip of Gronk's hit on White. Definitely reminiscent of Lucic on Miller. At this point, WNY's hatred toward the Pegula sports teams goes way beyond win-loss records in the standings. These players don't represent WNY the way its people see themselves: hard working, loyal, tough as nails. My introspective nature causes me to think such thoughts as, "why does an adult approaching middle age devote so much time, money, and emotion into a football team that hasn't made the playoffs in now 18 straight years and a hockey team that hasn't made the playoffs in now 7 straight years?" I have no good answer. See you all Tuesday night for another round of complaining.

I'm not even going to check on the score until tomorrow afternoon when the Bills game is over (not watching that one either). I like to get my bad news all in one shot. Not even that angry any more. Just a bit bored and indifferent to the never-ending incompetence from Buffalo's pro sports scene.

Here's the way I see it. 29 Sabres have played at least a game this season. 13 may still have a future as a Buffalo Sabre: Lehner, Baptiste, Beaulieu, Girgensons, Bailey, Antipin, McCabe, Scandella, Ristolainen, Reinhart, Okposo, Eichel, O'Reilly. I would keep these players in the organization at least through January and give them each a chance to improve their game over the next two months. I don't like selling low, especially when so many of them are playing at a low right now. Re-evaluate in February. Kane is a unique case. If he likes it in Buffalo so much and wants to be a part of our future, then tell him to consider signing here this summer, but trade him ASAP before he gets injured and becomes worthless. The remaining 15 of them are not and should not be considered a part of the team's future beyond this season: Johnson, Criscuolo, Gorges, Moulson, Falk, Bogosian, Tennyson, Redmond, Fedun, Josefson, Griffith, Nolan, Larsson, Pouliot, Pominville. Any of these 15 losers can be sacrificed right now, if they haven't already been. JB needs to trade, cut, and demote from this group and send some sort of message. Yes, I included Pominville. He's having a decent season, but his veteran leadership sucks - just like it did years ago here - and his $5 million a year contract also sucks.

The Sabres currently have 9 players in the organization whose contracts are worth $2 million+ per year and run beyond this season. Five of them clearly have trade value, so I'm not too concerned about unloading these players: Eichel, O'Reilly, Pominville, Ristolainen, Scandella. Two of them suck major balls, but their contracts are only for one more year and aren't so large that JB couldn't dump them off in a trade: Beaulieu ($2.5 million) and Moulson ($3 million). The two that I'm most worried about are Bogosian (2 years, $6 million each) and Okposo (5 years, $6 million for first three, $4 million for last two). What do you all think about this? Is it worth buying out Bogosian and Okposo? Do they have any trade value whatsoever? I'm not 100% clear on the NHL buyout rules, but it looks like each might cost about $2 million per year for about twice the remaining years on their contract. I'm not sure how much this would hinder what JB wants to do in the future....

Hey, that is some much-needed good news! At least it follows JB's blueprint for success. An incoming class of Ullmark, Guhle, Nylander, and Bailey (plus Mittelstadt from college) might inject some life into this roster. 5 players = 25% of the active roster.

Not watching the game. Can someone post a pic of this? Pretty please? FYI, the record for most consecutive games shut out is Chicago with 8. Happened months before the Great Depression. If any modern era team can beat this record, our 2017-18 Buffalo Sabres can!

Didn't see the game. Can someone tell me what the crowd was like? In terms of % attendance, noise factor, booing factor, etc...? Thanks! I think it's time for fans to stop buying tickets and attending the games. But for those who already purchased tickets, go to the games and boo the out of these pieces of for all 60 minutes, if you can. Not sure this will wake up the players, but it will at least be cathartic for us all to see and hear.

You do realize the worst team in the NHL will have about an 80% chance of not drafting #1 overall (for Dahlin) and about a 50% chance of not drafting top 3? Do you really think a Buffalo sports team will have such luck?

Actually, that Lions game probably won't matter if the Ravens lose to the Steelers and Bengals because that 9-7 scenario tiebreaker will go down to strength of victory (of which Buffalo currently has a big enough advantage...thank you Cleveland!). This is the most reasonable road to the playoffs I can find: 0. Assume the Jags, Titans, and Chargers don't collapse down the stretch. Same for NE and Pitt. 1. Bills finish 9-7, beating Miami twice and also the Colts 2. Ravens at least lose to Steelers and Bengals 3. Raiders lose at least 1 more...how about the Eagles week 16 4. Jets lose at least 1 more....how about the Saints week 15 5. Bengals lose at least 2 more...how about the Steelers this Sunday and Vikings week 15 6. Chiefs lose at least 2 more...how about the Raiders week 14 and Chargers week 15 This particular scenario would have the Bills needing to win in Miami and the Ravens losing at home to the Bengals during the final weekend of the regular season. These two games also happen to be the least probable to work in our favor, in my opinion. Visions of 2004 week 17 all over again... But at the very least, it would mean we played meaningful games for the entirety of the regular season and also hopefully mean we don't see Nate Peterman again this year.

Yup. Season is over, to be honest. I have to say: the Cheatriots are really killing my interest in the NFL. Things wouldn't look so perpetually dismal for us Bills fans if we didn't have to concede two losses every year to these . The defensive game plan next week should simply be non-stop cheap shots to Brady's knees. Gregg Williams style. sportsmanship. And Tom Brady and his avocado smoothies.

It's an opinion not based on any strong evidence. With the Buffalo defense from weeks 9-11, very few NFL QB's could have led the Bills to victory against LA. Especially Tyrod Taylor, who has proven after almost three full seasons that he's not a QB who can win shootouts or win from behind. With Cordy Glenn out, Benjamin going out, against that pass rush, and against Coach Lynn who knows Taylor well, I don't think Taylor had much of a chance either....though it certainly would have been a lot closer than 54-24. For those interested in the playoff race, tonight's game (Texans vs. Ravens) is extremely important. Here's the playoff summary: Bills aren't beating the Pats, and 8-8 isn't going to cut it, so the only realistic playoff road is 9-7 with a must-win scenario sweep of Miami plus a victory over the Colts. Pats and Steelers will make the playoffs. Jags and Titans are 7-4 with very easy schedules, so it's unrealistic to expect a 2-3 or worse finish from either. Browns, Broncos, Colts, and Dolphins can't catch a 9-7 Bills team under this current scenario. So that leaves 7 teams in the way: 1. Jets: 1 more loss from them will do it. 2. Raiders: 1 more loss from them will do it. 3. Chiefs: 2 more losses needed. 4. Chargers: 2 more losses needed (most likely to win the AFC West, in my opinion) 5. Bengals: 2 more losses needed. 6. Texans: 2 more losses needed (or just 1 if the loss is to an AFC team). 7. Ravens 3 more losses needed (or just 2 if a loss is to either Colts or Bengals plus another AFC team). Jets, Raiders, and Texans are trivial. Bengals should happen, too. Chargers and Chiefs play each other, so the loser of that one only needs 1 more loss. The Ravens are the big problem. They have an easy schedule (Texans, Lions, Colts, Bengals, Browns, Steelers), with the only saving grace being that they are not that good of a team.

Yep, but I'm hoping Guhle, Bailey, and Nylander in particular become full-time Sabres by next fall.

The Ravens are currently 5-5. I don't see them losing to the Texans, Colts, or Browns. I do see them losing to the Steelers. That leaves them at 8-6, with the Lions and Bengals remaining. Due to tiebreaker procedures, the Lions game doesn't mean much with this 8-6 prediction of mine. It would all come down to the Bengals in week 17. If the Ravens beat them, then they will own the common games tiebreaker over the Bills. If they lose to the Bengals, then it may come down to the strength of victory tiebreaker which the Bills should easily win. Since I don't see the Ravens losing to the Bengals at home week 17 with playoffs on the line, I don't see the Bills making it at 9-7. I'm also not super confident that either the Chiefs or Chargers lose at least two more games. Wait a minute. Then again, I'm not that confident the Bills can even sweep the Dolphins.....

He'll be back in a week after Bogo gets injured again.

Unlikely, in my opinion. The Pats, Steelers, Jags, Titans, Ravens, and the AFC West Champs (either the Chiefs, Chargers, or Raiders) will probably be the playoff teams. There's no room for the 9-7 Bills. We will need to finish 10-6 this year to make the playoffs. The Jags, Titans, and Ravens all have incredibly easy remaining schedules and should get to 10 wins. The Ravens will probably even beat us with tiebreakers at 9-7.