Doohickie
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Posts posted by Doohickie
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Awe shucks. (I think ... could go either way ... :unsure: )
Come here you big lug!! Time for a hug!!
:wub:
No, no, no... the compliment is enough. :cry:
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Just saying, Murray leaves a lot to be desired from a good GM standpoint and from a talent evaluator.
We're at the nadir of the tank right now. I think before we can even begin to pass judgment on Murray's abilities, we probably need to wait a season and see how the team progresses. I don't blame you for your opinions about how he handled PLF, TN and Lemieux (although I don't necessarily agree with you). But it's still too early to grade his ability to judge talent. Let's see how the prospects he brought into the pipeline play out.
Very good post, NP.
Thanks. Coming from you that is a true compliment.
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One and a half sharts.
He took over the first one after RonRon had all but the final release the season before last.
I believe the fellow who is sick in Florida is questioning TM somewhat, as is Rumble Fish.
I certainly am holding out on the full on love of TM. I do question his integrity, as he had basically lied about not wanting to finish DFL, two years running.
I do see your point and understand your qualms about GMTM. You see it as lying. I see it as toeing the league's party line and gamesmanship. The league doesn't want to admit that teams purposely tank for a draft pick and don't want the teams to openly admit it (and yet they recognize it happens which is why they've altered the lottery system). This year in particular is especially significant - the lottery system guarantees no worse than a top-2 pick for the worst team, and the top 2 this year are supposed to be exceptionally good - so the talk went from speculation to more open allegations. The league doesn't like that kind of talk so naturally GMTM didn't admit to tanking.
You can make the argument that yes, of course GMTM deliberately tanked the team and that impugns his integrity. I would counter that this is no worse than the businessman who exploits loopholes on his taxes. Maybe a little slimy, but not exactly illegal, but tolerated by society. When I write that out, I'm not sure I want the Sabres to win that way. But I do want them to win. I'm hoping for results. I can see how everything GMTM does is building toward those results, so I'm willing to hold my nose and hope for better days.
As a bit of an aside,
I think if you look back at my posts over the last season, I was not a tanker early on. I merely used the tank (or rather, the possibility of McEichel) as a consolation when the Sabres lost. I wanted to see some good coming out of the futility that was the Buffalo Sabres this season. Up until the 14-game skid, I really rooted for a win every game. In December I was rooting for the Sabres to make the playoffs (if you recall, they weren't that far out of it). Then January happened. At some point during 0-for-January my perspective changed and started paying more attention to the Probability of McEichel than to the NHL standings. So for the anti-tankers, I kind of get it. I fell from grace you might say, but at one time I was on the lofty cloud of unimpeachable integrity with the rest of you. Whether I approved of the tank or not didn't affect the team's play and eventually I got more pragmatic; if it's a lost season, the way the Sabres would win would be to lose and get McEichel, so rooting against them started to creep into my mindset. Yuck.
So I can't claim a high moral ground. I am one of the fans Mike Weber had an issue with (even though I haven't been to any games this year). But whether I can claim the moral high ground or not, I still hope to see a winning team in the next year or so. And whether the stout anti-tankers like the way the organization went about it or not, they will also benefit from the acquisition of top talent through the tank.
I'm not sure if there's a point to all that... only that whichever side you are on the tank issue, we're all just fans of the Sabres.
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Beat me to it. Also, who are the "some" who have been caused to "question Murray's ability"?
He posts under the screen name North Buffalo.
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He was with the big club throughout the pre-season and played in several pre-season games. Again, according to the WGR guys this morning, Lemieux was not happy about being sent back to the minors after camp and pre-season was over. Couple that with his displeasure about dropping out of the first round and it adds up to being disgruntled. I just don't see how Murray and Co. should have known before hand that this was gonna happen.
GO SABRES!!!
I checked. He played in a single pre-season game. I stand corrected.
Shipping off a 1st and Armia and Lemieux for Kane who has issues himself without a coach that can handle that scenario as well as Murray is a tall order and brings into question is Murray a train wreck. The next coach will give a big indication and if he screws this up, TPegs needs to fire him on the spot.
You don't get it. He was trading all that for McEichel, not for Kane. If Kane works out at all, that's a bonus. He was simply dumping current talent to enhance future talent.
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I am totally fine with the plan to finish 30th. Just don't try telling us it wasn't the plan. That is an insult to the fans.
An insult to the fans, sure, but it's in keeping with the league party line that teams simply don't tank. If he admitted it for the sake of the fans, he'd probably face league sanctions. Better to put the best team he can on the ice and make the fans happy in a year or two with a winning team.
A true rebuilding effort is a very acrimonious task. Even if you're not trying to tank for a top pick, you have to make the commitment to exchange the present for the future, which means that while you're in the midst of it, the present will suck for a while. The future isn't quite here yet but it's getting closer.
Look at what the Sabres left behind; you only have to peek over at the Western Conference where ol' LIndy Ruff valiantly battled for that last playoff spot and ended up in 10th. That's what the Sabres had become, year after year. The rebuild was the right course of action. Murray may or may not be the right guy to carry it out. Not knowing how the team will look a year or two from now is the source of a lot of the strife on the forum right now. If they're making deep playoff runs in a few years then obviously Murray was the guy. If the team is still faltering, he'll be replaced. But how he handled Nolan's dismissal will not be part of the reason for sacking GMTM.
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he probably would rather sit at home and collect TP's cash then to be a part of this soap opera.
Probably why he was so adamant to go against the plan. That is the only part that bugs me. TN very much coached like he didn't care about draft position. TM very much did his job like he only cared about draft position. Now Murray is going to try to act like it was somewhat on Nolan for finishing 30th? That is horseshit on Murray's part.
Nolan was a major player in the soap opera. And if Nolan had played nice and just went along with the tank faithfully until it was secured, then got the team to play well, maybe Murray would have seen him as a guy he can work with (probably not because I think he has much higher level of coaching in mind), I agree with you that it's horseshit, but one man's horseshit is another man's spin.
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why did Murray give him the new deal in the first place?
They basically gave the guy 3 years worth of money to be a one year pawn.
You answered your own question, imo. Basically TN was getting a bum deal, being the coach on a rebuilding (in extreme, tanking) team. When he was hired by LaFontaine it was for a team that was in a shambles, just starting a rebuild. There was no sense in Murray bringing in his own coach while the team was still a tire fire*, especially if thoughts of finishing low to get a high draft pick were one of his objectives for this season. So to make it worth his while he hired Nolan for a three year term, strongly suspecting it wouldn't last beyond the first year, figuring it was the least he could do to compensate for throwing Nolan into such an impossible situation. Did Murray know he would fire Nolan after this season? Maybe, maybe not. But that's the way it worked out.
*Another factor is that perhaps he even discussed the possibility (in a non-official capacity, of course) of working with Babcock at some point in the future and knew his contract was expiring at the end of this season, so he needed a placeholder coach to get the team through to Babcock's availability. As bad as thrusting Nolan into the situation was (by giving him a contract), it would have been even worse to hire some schmuck from outside the organization for just a year if his true intent has always been to make a play for Babcock. If the Sabres do land (or make a strong play for) Babcock, I'll be convinced that this was the plan all along. And if not Babcock I think GMTM has a list of candidates in mind.
Why the sudden firing? I suspect Murray had already made his decision to let Nolan go during the off-season but something did come up between Nolan and Murray and Murray just didn't want to deal with Nolan anymore. He can put up a charade if it serves his purposes but he just couldn't fake it with Nolan anymore, nor did he need to.
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In 5 years Ted Nolan will be more loved in this town than Tim Murray.
Thus the problem with Buffalo sports.
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Babcock is NO crack pot.
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I think Murray said in the later press conference that it was just negotiation and that he didn't really think too much of him not signing at that point.
We'll never really know, will we? If Lemieux did say he'd never put a Sabres uni on based on some deeply held principle, I'm pretty sure GMTM would gloss it over as a non-issue.
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Ted was and is a good man...the type of guy you would be proud to have your daughter marry.
I've never, ever, ever gotten that vibe from him. He's never struck me as particularly intelligent or trustworthy or classy. It seems like he has trouble maintaining working relationships. In his two tenures with the Sabres, that's the only conclusion I can draw.
You may not care about that sort of thing, but respect the fact other people do.
Why?
Yes i was around but one of the few that thought he is an overrated coach. I don't hate the guy, just don't think he's a good coach.
This.
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When TM crashes and burns for picking a coach that can licks his cahoonas but not coach and Gorges turns on this guy too Nolan will be back, or he fires one for disagreeing with him because the guy can actually coach and TM doesn't know what he is doing, LaFontaine and Nolan will be back.
That's some deep fantasy right there. Neither one will be back.
The ZFG attitude of Murray means that he's not tied to past Sabres history. I think for the Sabres to move forward as a franchise, they have to get past a lot of history that was holding them back. Putting an outsider (Murray) in charge of things was the right move. He's not beholden to Sabres history and tradition; he is only here to build a winning team. LaFontaine won't be back. Nolan won't be back. Love the guys, thanks for the memories, but that chapter in Sabres history is finally and irrevocably closed.
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I'm just going by what the WGR guys were saying about Lemieux this morning; that he was convinced he was good enough and should have been allowed to stay with the Sabres and that he resented the decision to send him back to the minors.
But he was never "up with the Sabres" in terms of actual game play. I suppose he attended the prospects camp, but he has never been under contract to any aspect of the Buffalo Sabres organization. So talk of "sending him down" isn't really accurate. He was never "up."
This has definitely taken on a life of its own, but never been satisfactorily explained anywhere I've seen.
On the record, Lemieux was very upset about not being picked in the first round, but he's only said very positive things about the Sabres.
There was one tweet from a regional (TSN or Sportsnet?) reporter saying he wasn't going to sign in Buffalo.
Murray later said he was offered a contract and didn't accept it, but that wasn't a factor in the trade.
Beyond that, I've only seen a lot of internet speculation based on those two quotes.
I think it's not a leap to conclude the Sabres offered second-round money and Lemieux turned it down believing he was was worth 1st-round money. Don't have enough information to draw any more conclusions.
I think that's a pretty good summary from what I remember. Thanks for that.
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The Sabres are going to bring in a veteran coach, one with teeth
That probably rules out Darryl Sutter then.
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I don't think his problem was being sent to the minors. I think he specifically stated he wouldn't sign with the Sabres (although I'm not sure the quote was exactly that). The Sabres owned his rights but he never signed an entry level contract. He had a bit of a chip on his shoulder after slipping to the second round and (inexplicably to me) seemed to hold it against the Sabres.
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I spit out my beer when I scrolled past your avatar, had to do a double-take :lol: :worthy:
It gets funnier the more I see it
What am I missing? :unsure:
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That's not a deadpan expression, that's Bitter Beer Face.
After their season is over.
Of course, if Babs and GMTM have an ongoing friendship, Murray may have already gauged Babcock's level of interest.
Also, even though the Red Wings have indicated that they view re-signing Babcock as a formality, an early playoff exit may have them rethinking that strategy. My wife is a big Wings fan and she wants him gone. Her feeling (and that of some of the Detroit media) is that they've had their run together but it might benefit both the Wings and Babcock for them to part ways.
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You and other TM true believers can't have it both ways...
You keep saying that. I'm not sure why.
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That did not disappoint :lol: :lol:
I think he's far more adroit than he appears to the media; I also think he's one step ahead of them and likes having some fun with them. The secret is being able do it with that deadpan expression.
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If you believe Murray wasn't trying to ice one of the worst teams in league history, and was actually shooting for something north of 30th place, then doesn't he deserve some criticism, at the very least for hiring such a terrible coach? You can't have it both ways.
I think he was trying to field a team that wasn't too good to have a shot at McDavid. The fact that they totally tanked was serendipitous.
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I like the soundtrack on that first one.... Offspring?
The Next Coach of the Buffalo Sabres
in The Aud Club
Posted
I can see it being a perception from the standpoint that the NHL team is so young, there can't be much left on the farm.