Claude_Verret

I was composing a response to your first question. Then Hitler. That's when you know the conversation is over.

Such lofty aspirations!

Like I said more power to you if you're taking the lesser of two evils route, you have a lot of company. I see Hillary as the lesser evil too, but I still see evil and more of the same. Therefore no can do. As to the rest, I'm not a libertarian as my post from earlier clearly laid out.

Lol. Geez, Where are those poms pom's JJ?

I don't know death by a thousand cuts or quick and easy? If you find value voting for Hillary then more power to you. I do not.

Gary Johnson has no chance to be elected president in this election or the next one or the one after that, nor do any other 3rd party candidates. Perhaps it is my fault in not being clear enough over the past few days about this. My support for Gary Johnson has nothing to do with seeing Libertarians rise to power in some way now or in the future. Now that we've established that, it might be easier to see why any gaffes by him that reflect poorly on his ability to to fulfill the office of president matter not one iota to me. Now gaffes and lies by either of the two candidates who WILL be our next president is something that I think should matter and I'm sure will be covered ad nauseum by those who will be voting for them. But that's for another discussion where gaffes and lies only exist when the other side commits them. I believe that a large portion of the electorate is fed up with what we have currently in Washington. Be it corruption, gridlock, lying, partisan bickering etc.... people are clearly fed up. I think we saw that frustration in the primary cycle. For the Dems we had the Sanders movement and the ultimate pre-ordained coronation of Hillary perhaps aided by DNC shenanigans...or dare I say corruption. With the Republicans we got Trump, and that speaks for itself. So after all the shouting from a large portion of the electorate about being fed up with business as usual, here we are left with a choice between a disaster and the ultimate in status quo. No thank you. If I thought for a minute that Sanders / Trump situations would serve as a wake up call to either party, then I might be able to get on board with one of the other, but I don't believe for a second that it will. How do I believe you can splash some cold water on their collective faces and get their attention and some real change? Threaten their ability to get elected or remain in power. That's where Gary Johnson comes in and that's the sole reason behind my support.

Lol. Never saw that response coming! How about we give em a chance to prove it first? Also, you state this as if the documented long term corruption from the other teams is somehow ok...because that's just the way it is?

Gaffes galore from the other two. But it's different then of course.

My condolences. Awful.

I'll take a few gaffes from a 3rd party guy over supporting anyone from the two big teams and their decades of blatant lies and corruption.

Not following you here, but since you mention the Bills I'll follow with this... GJ is the Bills...no hope of winning the election/making playoffs, but he can play the spoiler role, which would be beyond fantastic!

NFL football is pretty much unwatchable live. When I watch it's on DVR delay so I can skip the constant commercials. I don't play fantasy football but I'd imagine the Red zone channel would make it bearable to follow your players. It also helps that I watch on Sundays outdoors while grilling, drinking and bs-ing with friends because there's no way I could just plop myself on the couch and subject myself to the NFL every week.

Gary Johnson: Definitely embarrassing and something he should have been prepared for after Aleppo. Although probably not surprising given his isolationist platform. Still the fact that Chris Matthews tried to trap him and the subsequent coverage warms me. He's relevant or the questions / coverage wouldn't be there. Also, immunity handed out like candy to key Clinton aides and witnesses? I'm shocked!

Your assessment is wrong and I'm certainly not going to explain for the third time today the value I see in voting 3rd party.

I think I stated upthread where the real value in voting for 3rd party candidates lies. Weave's explained it several times as well. I know that third party candidates can't get elected under our current system, but if enough people vote for them because they're fed up with the status quo they can (and have) force the two teams to change. Also, change can begin from local and state levels with third parties. Voting third party isn't a novelty for me, unfortunately I think it's going to take for the country to begin circling the proverbial drain before enough people finally realize that both parties suck.......too late. 1.) I'll take politicians politicking politics for $1000, Alex. 2.) Don't hold your breath.

Hillary and the GOP have had a long and acrimonious relationship, that was my point. Because of that her job won't be any easier if she gets elected, the exact number of years that she's held political influence doesn't really matter.

I understand that you're a partisans partisan, but Hillary's 30 years is going to be just a big of problem for her with the GOP as Trump being Trump is going to be for him with the Dems. You thought the last eight years was bad with partisan bickering and gridlock in Washington? You ain't seen nothing yet.

I voted third party the last two times and will again this time. Even if a party manages to nominate someone likeable, I cannot vote for the corruption that both parties stand for.

Many people, some right here in this very thread have acknowledged that they don't particularly like either of the major party candidates but will still choose to vote for what they believe to be the lesser of two evils. Those are the people who should really take pause before voting defensively in such a way and in essence voting for the status quo. Getting a significant portion of the electorate behind 3rd parties can bring about real change within the big two parties. In that case you are getting a piece of what you want...without winning. Mrs. Sauerbraten, by the numbers you filled in, doesn't really seem like she would see much evil in Mrs. Clinton at all (and a whole lot in Trump) and would seem to be very comfortable voting for her. No individual should feel like their vote belongs to either of the two parties just because our system in set up in a way that favors them, yet many do. Your vote is yours and yours alone. http://www.wsj.com/articles/third-parties-enjoy-their-day-in-sun-1474503054

Uh huh, HRC winning in a landslide with a "mandate" and it's all going to be smoooooth sailing....... I see bickering with and obstruction from Republicans/Democrats reaching unprecedented levels no matter who wins and in what fashion. More of the same.

Calm down Liger. My highlight of your quotes was directed at Swamp because he asked me why I would ask if people had read the article.

I think that the article pretty clearly laid out right in the beginning the two types of mathematically wasted votes. Upon editing the post I added the example that is typically never highlighted after seeing DeLuca's post, finding it ironic that Mr. "You're sitting on the sidelines" will be casting a wasted mathematical vote for Hillary in NYS. Why did I ask if people had actually read the article?..... There's a whole bolded section of the article dealing with the above. It's right there.....at the end of the article.

Did you guys actually read the article?

Ethically sure, mathematically it's wasted.

https://fee.org/articles/how-not-to-waste-your-vote-a-mathematical-analysis/ A vote for Hillary in NY, California etc. = wasted.