EM88

I do not think it is hyperbole for everyone. Worst home loss in history, it depends on how you define it. a 9-4 loss to Columbus last year was a hockey game that the team probably played worse overall, and I am sure you can find many other games like that also. But for many of us, we judge how good or bad losses are by how they make us feel about the team. This being a loss that takes many of us from being happy with the team one week ago and this game pushes us over the edge to a level of despair that we have only felt 2-3 times in the past decade? Many of us feel that right now, so we define that as a 'bad loss'. It is not hyperbole for some of us.

I cannot see Quinn being here long term unless he transforms into a totally different player. He is producing like a bad 4th liner and brings nothing to the team in terms of skating or physicality right now either. In addition, he is starting to make more obvious mistakes defensively, rivaling Cozens for lack of hockey sense without the puck. Bryson I'm good with as your 'spare' 7th or 8th guy. Krebs also has taken a step forward to me. Clifton I think is playing well for a 3rd pair guy. Power I can go either way on depending on the game.

A poster brought up the play of those 2 in a different thread I just read. Yes, a firm agreement on that. They both played a terrible, terrible game defensively last night positionally that led to a couple of the Colorado goals. Cozens is not producing to expectations, his contract, or his position on the roster. Quinn is a black hole right now. When you have those 2 making clear and obvious mistakes with the positioning on the ice its a major issue. As said previously when you analyze the first 2 Colorado goals scored it is the 2 of them that made very large mistakes. The Sabres would not have looked good, but they would have likely won last night had it not been for the bad decisions made by Quinn and Cozens there.

He lucked into a coach/GM combo, through no skill of his own. Remember the Rex Ryan fiasco? Obviously he wasn't a good coach for the team, but it was the Pegula's who wanted him after talking to him in person a few times. That wasn't a hire that 'football people' suggested to him. Pegula (or the Pegulas), seem to run their teams like fans, but not even well educated fans, they run their team like 14-year-old boy fans. Also, getting one of the top 5 players in the league helps. Take Josh Allen off the Bills and they are a middling team probably not making the playoffs, just like the Sabres. On the other side, add one of the top 5 players in the NHL to the Sabres (McDavid, Matthews, Kucheroff, McKinnon) and they are likely a much better team. -I have always thought in Football, the game is more complex and there are more 'layers' between the owner and the roster. Roster construction is more complex. Ther are more players to choose and contribute to the roster, and there are more bodies between the players and the owner. In the NHL, when your roster is basically 15-20 important pieces, and maybe 2-3 of your top 20 pieces change out each year, an owner who wants to be involved can have a MUCH greater impact. In the NFL, you have 40 important pieces, and many more of those change out each year. An owner who spends 20 hours a month in personal meetings or sitting next to and talking to the GM is simply going to have less of an impact on the roster and staff. There are too many people and not enough time to mess things up. In hockey, smaller rosters, smaller coaching staffs, making it simply a lot easier for a bad owner to mess things up more quickly.

As with many others, I do not see how things change with Pegula at the top. Even if he fires everyone below him, it will be him picking their replacements. I have zero confidence he will pick people who are great at the job they do, rather than pick people who make him feel 'warm and fuzzy' and comfortable around them.

I would agree. If you are going to be bad, be so bad that changes will be made. "Tank". It worked for Pittsburgh, Chicago, Toronto, and many others. Be bad enough that you can start over, get some high draft picks and get your up and coming superstars. Yet, are we going into year 14 of Pegula's ownership? Over that time 20 first round picks. 2 first overalls. 2 2nd overalls. 10 top 10 overalls. 4 General managers. 7 different head coaches. A few restructures of the scouting dept, hockey operations, even the business side of things. And yet not even one time, could they manage to finish in the top 8 out of 16 in the conference to make the playoffs. If you tear things down, how far do you go? does it go into tank territory again? If so, we see with Pegula running things there is zero guarantee that it will even work. In the end it is Pegula who would be picking the new people to run things. And even if it did work, maybe by 2028-29 season at the earliest you could sniff the playoffs? Would there be any fans left in the arena for a home game?

100% agree on that. But we will not get that. He is the owner, if he wants in on the discussions he will get that.

This discussion has appeared in many threads over the last few weeks. I do agree with you. There are just too many quotes, some from the Pegula's themselves, too much anecdotal evidence, too much actual evidence over the years. Just plain too much evidence that does support Pegula as actually being involved in most aspects of the roster. That has been discussed and documented in other places I have read on these pages. It would seem to me that those saying otherwise just want Adams gone and want to ignore what Pegula has done to this team over the past decade plus.

I haven't watched Trouba much lately, I'd be interested in him. Kreider no way. If he was only signed for this year and it was a salary dump where I'd give them a mid level prospect then maybe. But he is signed for 2 more years so that make it a no way for me. Others have also mentioned his play looks to be taking a deep slide in many metrics. The Rangers see this, they are looking for a sucker to unload him to. I would take my chances that with the cap room and assets the Sabres have they will be in position as the year goes on leading to the deadline to make a better move than Kreider.

I think 91, 92, 100, 96 and 96 were the point totals of the last team to make the playoffs in the east over the last 5 non-covid-shortened seasons. Sabres are on pace for 89.8. They are in the mix, but they need to still pick up the point pace over the next 20. Getting Tage Thompson back and healthy will be key. To me it is clear that Thompson, UPL and Dahlin are by far and away the 3 most important players for them to make the playoffs. Keep them healthy.

They started out the first 2 weeks being able to score, but since the middle of october versus Utah, the Bruins goal totals in regulation have been: 1, 0, 2, 3, 0, 2, 3, 2, 0, 3, 2, 3, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2. Last 17 games. Not once over 3 goals in regulation. 13 games with 2 goals or less. Not good. They have the worst offense in the league in terms of goals per game even from the start of the season.

Golisano is a good example. Corporate ownership is another. Look to the north to Toronto for how the Leafs are run, or the Raptors or Blue Jays. They may not be good enough to win a championship. But that type of ownership does exist and it functions in a way to spend enough money to insure the team is good enough to make money. And dips or drawbacks in spending are very temporary.

Technically correct. He will score just like he has this year, but scoring 3 goals is scoring, but certainly not enough. He has had some time with Edmonton's top players. I think he was skating with McDavid on a line and McDavid set him up on Skinner's first goal of the year. But in the time he spent with those top guys, he did so little that they quickly removed him from those guys and his ice time fell. 2 or more years ago I think it would be correct to say that if you put him on a top line he would put away the garbage and put up goals. But in the last year or two I think his ability to do that has drastically receded and he just doesn't have much of it left anymore. Skinner is not a skater he functions better in the half-court type of game. I think his best bet to return to maybe a 20-25 goal scorer would be if he was moved to Toronto. I think he would function well on one of their 2 top lines. But that is one of the few places left I think he would fit in, and even then I have my doubts he would reach those heights of production.

Exactly. 100%. It does not have to be more complicated than this. That is why changing the GM without changing everything around him does very little. I firmly think as you said Pegula is the defacto GM. He lets Adams make the phone calls and do the paperwork, but nothing gets done without his approval, and more significantly the bigger things are likely more his decision than the hockey department. Even if one wants to think the above is not true, then the next logical step is to take their word on something else. Adams and other members of the Sabres say that most decisions the hockey department makes are more 'group think' among them rather than Adams running rough-shot over the hockey department. If that is the case and you hire a new gm but Karmanos and Jakubowski and Forton and Ventura are still there contributing to decision making, not much changes. Even less so if one of them is your new GM.

I disagree. I do not think the Bills are moving in the next 5-7 years. But I do not think a 2 billion dollar stadium anchors them here. This is not a decade ago. There are closing in on 1000 billionaires in the USA and Canada alone. Last time I saw a list there are over 50 alone that are worth more than $20 billion, dozens worth more than $50 billion. Those numbers, both in terms of dollars and the number of people, are growing. This is without even bringing up how many lesser billionaire or multi-millionaire celebrities might band together in a celebrity ownership group backed by private investors that can do the same. Leaving behind a $2b stadium in Buffalo is nothing to them, especially with what might be waiting for them in a much larger market. If an individual really wants an NFL team, and wants them in a much larger market than Buffalo, a $2 billion dollar stadium here is not going to stand in their way. They can write a check for that and the attention they will get for being a new owner, the view they will be for being the hero that brings a franchise to a new city, will far outweigh the money they have to spend to do that. If the Pegula family continues to own the Bills, or someone with Buffalo roots such as Jeffrey Gundlach decides they want the team because they are a Buffalo fan buys the team, then it will be here longer term. If that does not happen, this team will not be here. Its a very binary thing. That $2 billion stadium is a huge deal to this area. Its not much to anyone outside of the area with outside interests.

He has never played more than 55 games in a season and he is hurt again. Not ideal. $4.2 million per year I could live with if he can stay healthy. I try to look at everyone if you take the name off of it. Imagine If the Sabres had an opportunity to pick up a D-man from another team, someone who was 24, signed long term for $4m per season, was a high 2nd round pick, and had flashes in the past of being really good. I would think there would be people who would think that is someone they want to take a chance on. I know some others do not. But for those who would, you do not have to trade assets for that guy. He's here already. You just have to get him to figure out his game again.

I can not get behind that analogy totally. I am not well schooled on the star wars mythology. But to me Adams is more like the Darth Vader or Darth maul character, and Pegula is the emporor. A better comparison to me would to compare Adams to a General given orders to win the war. But that General has to run every decision by the president/prime minister, and has to win the war with the tolls the president/prime minister gives them along the way. Then when the war is not won soon enough, the president/prime minister (in this case) gets to blame the general (Adams, in this case). I would like my general (Adams) to be able to tell the president/pm (pegula) what is needed to win the war, and then have the president/pm supply that and get out of the way with battlefield decisions. I do not think Pegula operates that way. The Sabres had other generals in the past. The President/PM got rid of them because he simply wants his generals to execute his orders his way, he does not want them giving him feedback, or demands on what they need to do the job. Those previous Generals have not been fired to make way for one that was told the only way he is getting the job is to do what he is told. That new general might be great at his job, or as others have said he might be terrible, But we will not ever know until the President/PM decides to step aside or step away from decision making. And should you fire this current general, you are likely to get more of the same. The president will not hire someone new and give them what they need no questions asked. The dynamic will remain the same.

I am not disagreeing that its true. I just think its dumb to not trade in your division. You should always make the best deal available. If it makes a division team better also then so be it. Your goal is to win the cup, not just the division. If you make a trade, you make the best trade possible no matter who it is to.

I'm going to repeat what someone else posted that I agree with the more I think about it. Its 3 positions or players that need to pick things up, that really it. Quinn, Cozens, and the goaltender. At this moment the 1st, 3rd, and 4th lines are at least meeting expectation. The defensive unit is up and down but they are not a liability 60 minutes a game for you. Quinn and Cozens combined for the season at 0 for 32 on even strength shot attempts. Quinns was an empty netter and Cozens a PP goal. Even if you count those they are 2 goals on 52 shots. If on those 52 shots they have 3-5, maybe 6 extra goals sprinkled around the season, you likely have a couple more wins and less losses. Especially if you had your goalies with a save percentage of at least .900. If you want to maybe add Benson to that list, but we know he was playing hurt. The Sabres forwards on a cumulative basis minus Benson, Quinn and Cozens are a plus 14 in plus-minus. Quinn, Cozens, and Benson, just between those 3, are a -11/

I think, maybe in a very small way, they didn't want to give it to Tuch when he is only signed for this year and next year. If you name him captain now and then do not extend him next year, going into his final year, its something that they might be afraid would look bad. Pegula, as an owner, doesn't want even the smallest things out there to make him look cheap, or bad.

Foligno getting traded was one of the saddest departures for me over the Pegula Era.

I think one of the bigger failures of this front office is not finding someone like that in the first couple rounds of the draft over the past decade. Jake McCabe, Will Borgen, and Nikita Zadarov are all guys who are in the top 20 in hits in the NHL over the past 2 years among defensemen. They are all big guys over 6 feet tall and over 200 lbs. None of them are elite but they all are good enough to at least be 3rd pair NHL guys, maybe 2nd pair. Of course they all were Sabres property at some point.

That is the best explanation that describes how I feel about Terry Pegula also. He hides behind the GM but Adams has to do what Pegula wants when Terry gets something on his mind. Pegula has been impulsive. The quotes like the existence of this team is to win a cup. The no cap on scouting and facilities. The way he ended up hiring Rex Ryan. His involvement in Erhoff and Leino. The Eichel situation. He seems to run the franchise with more emotion and less letting the people below him do their job 100%. I could also certainly see him being very instrumental in the Thompson and Cozens deals, in so far as pushing to get them done. Its a lazy and easy argument to say this is Adams mess. Pegula went with Adams to the supermarket, let Adams put some items in the cart but then Pegula filled the cart up with stuff he wanted, and now Adams is charged with preparing the meal with a lot of what Pegula told him to do, not what he wanted.

I do not think Cozens is 'lost'. I think he is an inconsistent $4m player that was signed to a $7m contact. As far as the Pegula and Adams point, I'm more on the side that Pegula is handcuffing him. Adams may be incompetent, but we really don't know because of the handcuffing. You have a GM that is an artist, the roster is his painting. To use your analogy, adams may be a great painter or he may be awful, but as he is wearing handcuffs we really do not know.

Serious question here: If Adams gets fired, how does that make things better? I tend to agree with others that made the point Pegula will still want to oversee, suggest, veto, or have last word in all player moves. I see a new GM, who will be chose by him, as just someone bringing him different choices for him to choose or not choose from. Pegs seems to have his fingerprints all over this team from the time he took over. Free agent signings, at least some input into contracts, or who gets contracts and who doesn't. He picks all the GM's and presidents and likely the coaches. I really think Adams is not much more than a puppet for pegula. If a new GM comes in, it will be someone who Pegs picks to have the same role. How does that change anything? It isn't about what may happen in the future. Many or most of us are commenting on how we feel right now. When seeing the last 3 games, in addition to the season as a whole, telling fans who invest in this team to Relax isn't all that appropriate. We are fans, we comment on what we just saw, not what may happen sometime in the future.