JohnC

The Krueger effect not only inhibited the play of the young players as you starkly catalogued. It also stifled the play of the veterans and the rest of the roster. Okposo and Skinner are two players who seem to be rejuvenated and are now playing with some verve. These players certainly have deficiencies but they also have assets that are now being utilized while under the former erudite coach they were squandered. It's well understood that with or without Krueger this roster still needs to be bolstered in order to be a serious team. And it is clearly evident that our goaltending tandem, most notably the backup, needs to be upgraded. I hate "what if" discussions because of the futility and loser taint it brings to a discussion. But if this team would have been coached by a lesser ideologue who was in tune with the NHL of today this team even with all of its limitations should have been in the same range in the standings as the Rangers and Flyers are in.

As was side by the TV hockey commentators in the Philly game it is a joke to have a skeleton scouting department within the organization for pro and prospect ranks. As you point out in order to make good hockey decisions you have to have a solid staff in order to internally challenge and hear different voices before making critical player decisions. The Pegulas thought that a cheaper thinned out staff would be able to do as well as a full staff. Especially this year how this organization was austerely structured was a big factor as to why this franchise became a league eye sore and an embarrassment.

That's what they are doing now. You are giving too much credence to this particular report. As someone else stated you don't think that Jack or Dahlin's name hasn't been brought up in phone conversations between numerous GMs and our front office? I understand your general frustration. But you have recently been in a heightened state of agitation over Krueger this year. Not only has he been dispatched but also the team is playing demonstrably better and the younger players have more rapidly advanced under the new HC. Those changes should have you being a little more positive and less morose. Maybe some merlot will raise your spirits some. 🙂

With respect to the highlighted comment I'm with you. Trying to respond to roster building by relying on patchwork is a road to nowhere serious. This organization's wrong belief that by filling the gaps with down-side players would be a solution was an enticing trap that we mistakenly repeated. Not only didn't it work but it set us back. Because of the overall substandard drafting there wasn't an adequate well of players to draw from. What it demonstrated is that expediency doesn't work when a longer term strategy is called for. The younger players such as Mitts, Thompson, Joki, Dahlin, Bryson, Apslund etc are forming a good core with upside. It's taken time for these players to be ready for the big league. Attempting to short-circuit the developmental process not only didn't work but it set us back. And as you noted emphasizing the goaltending position will do more than anything else to make us competitive.

I disagree with your comparison between Foligno and Hall. At this stage in Hall's career Foligno is a better and more well-rounded player. For Toronto the cost for the deal made sense because they believed that he could be an important factor in a cup run. Not only that Toronto has a lot of good young player on their roster and in their system where they can easily absorb the loss of a lower first round pick selection. The Toronto and Buffalo situations are very different.

Do you believe that KA could have gotten more than a second round pick from any other team? I don't. I said it in a prior post that any GM who would have offered a first round pick for him should be fired for gross incompetence. There are plenty of things to criticize this GM for. This deal isn't one of them. At least for me.

You nailed it. There have been a lot of accumulated mistakes that have kept this franchise stuck in the mud i.e. lower than middling. This team and organization is at the point where its history of mistakes and miscalculation no longer be an excuse for how you address its many glaring deficiencies. Unless some very smart and wise moves are made this critical offseason (as you noted) to elevate this franchise then it won't be surprising, if not expected, that Jack will demand to be let out of this interminable frustrating situation.

I understand your position on the Hall deal but respectively disagree with it. With respect to the Hall NMC it turned out to be a moot issue. Considering the dismal situation he was in Hall would have been willing to go anywhere, especially to a contending team, for the rest of this season. Hall's list was irrelevant because he would have gone mostly anywhere. Hall was facing the ignominious reality that he was being benched. Was it a ploy to force him to accept a trade to a team he didn't want to go to or simply because he was benched because the organization wanted to look at players to replace a player who wasn't in the team's plans? Either way the outcome is the same in that he was not for the most part going to play much, if at all, for us for the remaining season. You mentioned that KA got offers for Hall. What you don't know is what they were? It is highly unlikely that it was for a first round pick for him. Any GM who would have given up a first round pick for the UFA should summarily be fired for hideous incompetence. The bottom line is that KA got what the market offered for him. A second round pick for him, even with the Lazar and Bjork part of the deal, was a reasonable deal for all the parties involved. The mistake that many people are mistaking is overvaluing Hall's value. The bottom line is no one got fleeced in this trade as many people are portraying it to be. There seems to be a lot of misplaced anger for a transactional that was little more than a neutral deal.

You and I agree about the value of Sam. And I also agree with you that he deserves a better organization and situation. The problem is so do Jack, Dahlin and a lot of other good players who are stuck in a dysfunctional organization. My hope is that Pegula learned from this humiliating season that he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. The overriding issue for me that will determine success is first getting the organization right. He gutted it in order to save money with the expectation that it could still function as a professional hockey organization. He was dead wrong! He gambled on Krueger who was an interesting hire who was out of the NHL mainstream. Again, he was dead wrong! Gutting the scouting department where player evaluations are the most critical factor that determines success in all sports was beyond being stupid. It was self-sabotage. With the belated change in coaches and with the probable buttressing of staffing in the front office I'm hoping that this organization can be stabilized. What gives me a patina of more confidence is that one singular change in the HC has had a dramatic change on in play on the ice.

I simply don't understand the disregard for a player who has been our most reliable player for the past number of years. (As you noted.) He's not a star and never will be. But he is one of the smartest and consistent players in the league playing on a team that every year seems to be overhauled. He is the epitome of consistency in an unstable environment. He may or may not be a player who drives a line but he is an anchor player playing in a historically rudderless organization. As a player and teammate he should be appreciated more.

I'm aware of that. As I said to another poster hopefully that bulk amount of money will be better spent next year. I want to make it clear that I wasn't the Hall signing. It didn't work out for a lot of reasons not even associated to the player. When all is said and done we ended up with a second round pick for him. In my estimation it was a reasonable deal. No one in the transaction got fleeced. The market spoke.

Odds are that he will score more for the Bruins than he did with the Sabres. What would be surprising about that? When you play on a team with more talent and support your stats should be better. What would have made absolutely no sense is keeping him, especially at the expense of playing a younger player. The best and right thing for the organization and for Hall was to move him. There was no other rational option. You can refer to analytics all you want but the stark reality is that his time here was over. It didn't work out. Much of the reason for that goes beyond what is in the control of the player. I'm aware that the money directed toward Hall this year was not going to be here next year. My point still is that that designated money slot can be directed to more productive usages. My takeaway from the Hall trade is that we ended up with a second round pick for him. Even with the Bjork and Lazar exchange that is a reasonable deal considering the circumstances.

The bottom line is that we got a second round pick for Hall. That is what many people thought we were going to retrieve for him. As far as having to play half of what he was due in order to get a second round pick then so be it. What's more important is that the money that went to him now could be directed to a player such as Ullmark next season. I don't know enough about Bjork to even respond to his talent level and how it compares to the Lazar. Although I like Lazar as a player I'm not going to inflate this fourth line player's value. He is a likeable and earnest player but also replaceable player. This Hall transaction wasn't an exceptional deal for our GM. It was a reasonable deal for a very diminished player who was an UFA. The notion that he was going to garner a first round pick was a delusion. For the most part this was a neutral and inconsequential deal. I don't understand the hysteria surrounding this trade.

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I agree with you that as this roster is currently constituted this team is not a playoff team. We simply don't have enough talent to compete with the upper echelon teams. That's obvious to all who have a penny's worth of objectivity. But the makeup of the roster is not the fault of the coach. It is a front office responsibility. All you can ask the coach to do is work with the players he has and put them in a position to succeed. And all you can ask the coach is to make the players accountable. And that is what he has done. With respect to the second highlighted comment we agree. That's exactly what I have repeatedly stated with my comments on this topic. No one is being given a job because they are entitled to it. If the current coach earns it then he deserves it. So far I believe he is putting himself in a good position to have the job next season without the interim designation.

Why is a "name coach" so important? There are plenty of name coaches who would be a bad fit. What the organization should be looking for is a coach who puts his players in a position to succeed and with this particular team knows how to develop young players. You want a coach who holds his players accountable and has his team consistently playing hard. We have that now. No one should be selected until after the season and with a lot of consideration of a number of candidates. If the Sabres continue to play the way they are for the rest of the season then Granato should be coaching the team next season. If you think about we have an in-house coach auditioning for the next coaching stint. If he does well in his audition then why select someone that you don't know for sure will mesh well with this roster.

The point I was making was whatever assets that we had and even planned to let go were diminished in value. What I can say about the other members of the unit such as Dahlin, Joki and including Montour is that their play improved when Granato took over.

What is encouraging about Tage beyond his shot is his willingness to battle on the boards. Much of that improvement can be attributed to being better equipped because of his physical maturation and offseason work ethic that has allowed him to handle the rigors of that part of the game. What is even more encouraging is that he is now showing a willingness to not shy away from having a net presence where he has converted some rebounds. This season has been tough to stomach. If there is a positive side to this fiasco it is that especially under Granato young players such as Mitts, Dahlin, Joki, Asplund, Tage and Cousins are forming a young core to build around. These players show that our cupboard was not empty so much as it was mismanaged and squandered.

Who would want to re-sign with a team/organization that has been been in a state of chaos for half a generation? If Risto, or Reinhart or Jack had a choice to leave and join an organization that was stable and competent enough to seriously compete don't you think that they would gleefully seize that opportunity to get out? Hall has a no trade clauses in his contract. He really doesn't need that clause because he would without a second thought be willing to leave this poop situation to go anywhere in order to extricate himself from this staggering stench of dysfunction. We got what we could get for Montour and a similar scenario will play for Hall. I'm okay with that. When you have no choice you take the option that you have and not what you dreamily want. However, their values have been diminished because of the team they played for. And that is a shame and an outrage.

The cost calculation goes beyond more than his talent and production compared to other players. Because he is an UFA he is a probable rental unless the team interested in him can determine if he has a desire to work out a reasonable deal in his next contract. If the Sabres get a second round pick or more for him I will be happy. The shame of the Hall acquisition is that if this organization wasn't so dysfunctional his one year deal with us could have made sense. Just like so many other players on this roster under Krueger his talents were squandered. That's what happens when your philosophy is to serve the system as if it is a religious tenet instead of putting the player in a position to succeed. And as soon as a coaching replacement most of the players on the roster seemed to be revitalized. I'm far from being a Hall basher. He got caught up in the vortex of organizational incompetence and the result was that he and the team were diminished.

You are overthinking the Hall trade value. He's not playing as if he is a top six forward even considering the added challenges factored in playing for the Sabres. If he converted more of his many glaring chances there would be more bidding for him. His inability to finish and burnish his stats have diminished his value. If we can get a second round pick for this UFA I would be ecstatic. I'm not sure we will even get that.

Arrogance and a sense of superiority didn't allow him to be receptive to listen to outside voices. There are stories (not sure if it is true) that he not only didn't he want Chris Taylor on his staff but didn't want him in the organization because Taylor told him that his approach to hockey would not work in the NHL. Chris Taylor was exceptional in developing young talent in the AHL. He helped Tage, Mitts, Apslund in the AHL so that they would be better prepared when they moved up to the big league. This is another example of not only squandering player talent but also staff talent.

The Sabres didn't need to bring him back next year. But that is not to say that he couldn't have contributed substantially more in a better situation here this year. I don't know what we will get for him when he is dealt. But what I do know for sure is that he would have been more productive under a better coaching circumstance. So even if he would have been dealt his value would have increased and the return would have been better.

One player that I look back on that was wasted on a costly one year contract was Hall. It's probable that he isn't what he was in the early stages of his career. Because of his inability to finish he wasn't going to be the goal scorer that we would have liked him to be. But when watching him it is evident that he is one of the faster skaters in the league and that he also is a good passer. He is more of a set up and assist man than a scorer. An argument could be made that he was a good pickup but like so many other players his talents were squandered. He is a wasted player and wasted contract that could have been better utilized. When you constantly shoot yourself self in the foot you are not going to do well in the race.

It's ironic that someone who has such a sophisticated world view was rigidly ideological with his hockey philosophy. He undermined himself.