JohnC

Hasek may be a good example of what you are saying about a certain type of goalie being able to thrive even on a bad team. Marty Biron described it as goalies who are comfortable in chaotic situations compared to structured situations. My general point in my prior post is that with an upgraded blue line unit and a greater attention to defensive responsibilities the play of our netminders should be better, regardless of who is in net. As @LGR4GMhas pointed out on a couple of occasions the team demonstrated its ability to play a tighter style of game in the end of the season playoff run.

No matter whether a goalie's style of play is structured or more chaotic the goalie will benefit from better team defensive play. What's encouraging is that over the last 15-18 games the Sabres played a tighter game that resulted in an impressive run. Will the GM add another goalie to the mix? I don't know. Whether he does or does not, he still needs to upgrade the blueline unit. Considering what our cap situation is and the accumulation of assets the organization is in a good position to address that area of need.

I agree with you that the "reaction system" often doesn't capture the substance and tenor of the disagreement. Most often, I'm more interested in responses when there is a disagreement. You can get a perspective that challenges your view and make you reconsider your position. The goalie issue is a topic where it is not too difficult to understand and respect those who take a different position.

I'm a Marty fan not just for his knowledge of the mechanics of goaltending but his knowledge about the league in general. He has pointed out on a number of occasions that the stats of a goalie has a lot to do with the unit playing in front of him. That is why I have been more concerned about upgrading our blueline and team defense in general. As @LGR4GMpointed out in a couple of posts the team buckled down and played a tighter style of hockey in our end of the season run. That shows that they have the ability to do so. I don't know what the GM is going to do with the goalie position. As I've said before I'm more inclined to think that he won't be making the changes that a lot of members are hoping he will make. We shall see. I'm also confident that @Thornywill continue to boo my takes on this issue. 😄 Although I disagree with him, I do understand his well-reasoned position.

And I'm making the same point.

Within this WGR link is an 18 minute segment with Marty Biron talking about the Sabre goaltending and the possible trade market. There are a number of options which include staying pat. My impression is that Marty isn't that enamored with Hart. At the end of the discussion Marty indicates he's more supportive of Comrie than UPL as a backup option. https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/authors/howard-and-jeremy-show

I would still say no to such a Power trade.

I'm not going to predict what his next contract will be but I'm much more confident than you are that a deal will be worked out. Coach Don G is a big advocate for Mitts. And what the player demonstrated last season was that he was versatile enough to play both the wing and center. In addition, he also showed that he could move up to the top line and keep it performing at a high level. Mitts is going to be a mainstay player and be here longer than you think.

No! Levi gave a glimpse of the type of goalie he could be when he played in the end of season playoff run. He was more than impressive. In comparison to what a Helly contract extension would require, retaining Levi would give the GM more options to add talent to the blueline.

Hellebucyk is one of the best goalies in the game. There's no question about that. Even after acknowledging his superior talent it would be a mistake to not only give up a valuable high first round pick, but an even bigger mistake to trade the emerging Krebs who took a quantum leap in development last season. The type of deal that you are proposing for a player who will be an UFA in a year goes against everything that the GM has espoused since he took over the reins. I just don't see a Hellebuyck deal coming to fruition mostly because of his contract status. If you proposed this deal for Saros who is locked up for two years, I would be more amenable to it but still reluctant because of the inclusion of Krebs.

No! If the proposal was Rousek, UPL and 45 for Hart I would be open to it. We should be able to come with a very good prospect with the 13th pick. Although I'm not adverse to giving up our first-round pick if it were part of a deal that brought back a goalie such as Saros. I've said this before that I believe that our GM would more likely work with the three goalies he already has on the roster, with Comrie and UPL competing for the backup. His attention is going to be more focused on upgrading the blueline this offseason. We shall see.

Giving up a first-round pick for Hart makes no sense to me. And I agree with the second part of your sentence indicating what you would give up for Hart. That would be more reasonable.

Great post! Impressive analysis from a variety of perspectives. One point that you made that struck a chord is that after watching a lot of hockey and different teams you can make a fair assessment as to which are the better teams and who are the best players by trusting your eyes. What you see and the impression you get, especially with a large enough sample size, reflects the reality on the ice.

If another defender is brought in, even a 4/5 defenseman, and you then include Johnson to the group shortly after, you can see the making of a good unit that also has some depth to it. Samuelsson should get better and Power, based on what he showed last season, should become an anchor defender who although very young will be one of the better defenders in the league. I like Joki more than most because I do see more upside to his game. But even if he is moved down to the third pairing the unit would be upgraded.

A couple of other posters, @Brawndo and @LGR4GM, stated that some evaluators consider him to have second pairing caliber of ability. Even if he turns out to be a third pairing player, that would be terrific. The next issue is how long will it take him to play in the NHL? Maybe next year or the year after.

Are you foreclosing the possibility that he might be an adequate backup?

My inquiry was on how he would be ranked in this year's draft after his college career. I was simply interested on how he would rank in this year's draft class. Your response was very informative. Thank you. Another question regarding Johnson. It seems his style of play in many ways matches the way Joki plays the position. Is that an accurate description?

For those who are draftniks, if Ryan Johnson was in this draft class would he be a lower first round or upper second round pick?

How good is Comrie? Candidly, I don't know. What was the expectation this year for Hill before the season started? He was their fourth listed goalie. It wasn't until there were a series of injuries that he got his opportunity to play. Prior to the season, if any GM had an opportunity to choose between Hill or Comrie, I suspect most of them would have chosen Comrie. Obviously, you can't control the circumstances. Comrie was plagued with injuries throughout the season. And to be fair, the team in front of the Vegas goalies from a defensive standpoint was stronger than for the Buffalo goalies by far. Even Jack has become a disciplined two-way player. Too often a negative narrative is ascribed to a player that is difficult alter. Mittelstadt is an example of that. His narrative went from being a soft and ineffective player to one of our best wall and versatile players who can play both the wing or center position. When he was moved up to the top line because of a Tage injury that line kept producing at a high rate. I'm not making any declarations about the trio of goalies that are on our roster. But I'm also not concluding that how they performed last year is how they will collectively perform next season. Is it a gamble to stick with this group? Yes. But it becomes a lesser gamble if the blueline is upgraded and the style of play tightens up, as it has with Vega.

Comrie was hurt for much of the season and never really got into a rhythm. Anderson was hurt and there wasn't much left in his tank. UPL showed some flashes but couldn't be counted on to be a consistent factor. Does he have more potential? I don't really know. Of the three goalies that included a short end of the season pressurized stint by Levi, I thought he was our best goalie. Does that short exhibition of competency translate into being the primary goalie next season? I don't know. You may consider it a mystical "how the GM sees it" issue but when all is said and done it is what he thinks that counts. And he will act based on how he sees it. There's nothing mystical about that.

I saw a picture of the arena filled to capacity with a raucous crowd. What a great snapshot! There are a few people who have argued that the Buffalo market was too small to sufficiently support a NHL team. What the Bandits (and the Bills) have shown is that having a well-run organization that is able to consistently produce a competitive and entertaining team, the fans will show up and the team will be enthusiastically supported.

How our goalie group is seen by the Sabre organization may be a lot different than how it is seen by the majority of the fans. As @Standing Room Smoking Cigspointed out, Vegas is playing for the Cup with Adin Hill as their goalie. He was their fourth goalie taking over for a long list of goalies who were hurt. Is Lehner's contract reflecting much value, especially compared to the production that Hill is giving the team? As @LGR4GMpointed out in a prior post, the Sabres, in their end of season run, did play a tighter style of game, and were effective doing so. I'm not arguing that our roster as it stands is complete. It's obvious that additions need to be made on the blueline. Considering our cap space and abundance of assets, draft picks and prospects, addressing that weakness is very achievable this offseason. I'm open to upgrading the goalie position. But I don't see it as dire as most others make it out to be. (And I'm not even sure that the GM does either.) Good team defense is as much about the play of the players in front of the goalie as it is about the goalie in the net. That is what Vegas is demonstrating.

An incisive insight. You are who you are and demonstrate it by the way you perform.

Is there an argument to be made that even with the tank years 7 or 8 years ago that culminated in the Jack draft, there was a pathway to some meaningful success after what was supposed to be strategic losing? What I'm basically asking is if the organization was run more astutely after the ignominiously decision to deliberately fail was there still an avenue to succeed in a reasonable period of time? Or is it simply that the approach that the organization took so contaminated and buried this franchise that it created a greater hole for this battered franchise to dig out of?

If you substitute Saros for Hellebuyck for the assets that you list, I would be on board. What was very telling for me is that Levi was thrown into the deep end at the end of the season playoff run. He acquitted himself very well. In fact, his performance sidelined UPL. The constant refrain is that KA will be taking a risk by going with what he has on the roster. That obvious answer is yes, he certainly is. Based on how he has operated I see him (my guess) is that he willing to take it.