Marvin

I will never forgive DDB for underming if not destroying the natural leadership that Zemgus and Larry had. I had hoped there would be a natural evolution from them to ROR to Eichel and Sam.

If no one has this by the weekend, I will look it up.

At #2, that looks like former Sabre Pat Hughes.

We have been screaming about this for how long?

Gotta see what Melody Martin and the other YouTubers say about this.

I suspect he and his assistants are making potential coaching candidates and GMs take notice. They are way, way better.

I may never get over 1975. On the other hand, 6-1, 7-1, and 8-0 are sweet pieces of revenge.

I just placed 2 sticks on a table so that I can pretend I am tearing down goalposts.

Waiting for the lights to go out so that the game is postponed...

I don't think so -- this one looks like his arm or shoulder. But that is a legitimate concern.

The funny thing is that the people I know in Columbus largely think that Tortorella wants the Sabres job because he thinks we need a coach like him that badly. They assert that we remind them of Columbus when he went there. When I mentioned that the same theory might apply to Boudreau, they tend to laugh and comment how horrible our coach was.

God, I want a win. If nothing else, just relieving the tension would be nice.

Directly, none. I was answering another question. Probably that stuff needs to be excised from the thread and put in its own thread. In my case, however, it is relevant to me what we expect of Karmanos and Rutherford. (My contacts say it is all over but putting ink to paper or conforming to 21 CFR 11.) It's about what the philosophy of the two men will be. I don't want them to completely blow things up. Keep the healthiest parts, move the rest, but keep short-term competitiveness while improving long-term. In my case, it is a deep philosophical opinion about building a team. The tank happens to be where my ideas are most sharply contested in our debates here and in the hockey world in general. I also happen to think we are closer to being a very good team than most here.

Thanks, @nfreeman. That made me feel a lot better. At a few of games during the tank year, other fans DID pour beer on me. One punched me because, "why are you smiling for a win?" People at the games did throw garbage and food at me for cheering goals and wins. Numerous times, guys shoved me because I "obviously wasn't a real Sabres fan." A guy in a turban is an easy target and easy to recognise from anywhere nearby in the arena, I guess. And it beats the hell out of being told I am not a real American during the pandemic, I guess. Let us also face it. I have some baggage that no one else here is likely to have. After 9/11, few people needed the Sabres and Bills to hire an extra guard whose sole job was to protect your life. Not many of you have been accused multiple times of trying to destroy America during the pandemic.

If the point is that the Sabres can not draft or develop talent well, then whether they tank or not is immaterial. They will stink either way. It's just that tanking gives you a shiny object you can fling at me like Jeremy White and Mike Schopp did. Jack Eichel is just as immaterial as everything else, so you asking about who my top player is means less than nothing. I know my hockey history going back to the NHA. I could expound at length on the different ways these different philosophies have worked and failed to work. It is a wonderfully interesting discussion. But if the counter to my answers is beer on my turban, being lampooned for 15 minutes on a radio show, a shiny object in my face, or a condescending comment from a moderator, when none of them are material to the discussion people asserted it was, which is, "tanks are more efficacious in creating a championship team than slow builds," then WHAT THE **** AM I DOING HERE?

That would be like needing to explain Emmy Noether's work before you could refer to a random joke in Pinky and the Brain.

Am I totally unclear, or are you being deliberately obtuse? I use that team as an example because everyone on that team was at least a borderline NHL-er and I could expect that people would have more intimate understanding of the line-up, how they grew, etc.. Better examples are the 1973-4 New York Islanders, the 1985-6 Calgary Flames, Jim Schoenfeld's New Jersey Devils leading towards the 1995 team, the 1993-4 Vancouver Canucks, or the long, slow build of the Detroit Red Wings, but I assumed that people were better acquainted with the Sabres history. If I am mistaken, then I apologise. I just did not want to explain the player movements, why they worked. etc. No luck, just good team building. I am just trying to bring a deeper philosophical idea for non-tanking to everyone. If you don't think this is welcome here, I will leave the board and not lurk as you desire.

I know. Even with The Tank, if we only do a couple fewer things wrong, we probably are a playoff team. There is an old saying: "The race may not always go to the swift, nor the fight to the strong -- but you are an idiot if that's not how you bet." My philosophy is that the odds are better the way I do it. I don't claim that tanking does not work -- ask the Penguins, for instance. I merely claim that I like my odds better if I don't do an all-out tank. And even if you do everything right, you might still be missing one of your top centres and 4 of your top defencemen in Game 7.

When the Sabres rebuilt in 1995-6, who knew that, aside from Hasek, that the top player would be Mike Peca? I totally disagree with the premise of your question. Having said that, I will still answer it. I don't know. There is no guarantee that my method always works. The Scouts and management could still be incompetent dolts who find me Adam Creighton and Paul Cyr without the decent players that we got at the same time. You are correct, thought, that I don't have Eichel. But, with all those picks, maybe I have all of Point, Larkin, Barzal, Boeser, Aho, and Kyrou. I certainly have the draft picks to do that. Yes, I am being a jerk. All I know is that the odds of icing a decent team before 2020 are up are much higher. I never would have had a time where losing was acceptable. I would not have undermined the coaches and players. That automatically makes my odds better even if I don't get any of the top of the top players. If I do well -- not even mind-blowingly well -- the Sabres are most like LGVK. NOTE 1: IMHO, even with the tank, not making the Evander Kane, not uselessly making the Brandon McNabb trade (both just wasted assets, IMHO), and not hiring DDB would have made the team better so that we are not even debating this point and are wondering whom we are likely to play in the playoffs. And I would be here thinking, "I wouldn't have tanked, but nothing succeeds like success. So whatever I think of the philosophy, at least the stink of the tank is gone." NOTE 2: IMHO, if GMJB does not undermine the 2018-9 team by not helping them after their winning streak (3 first rounders and you can't do *anything*?) and then denigrating their play after the TDL, we probably have players who believe in themselves more and aren't playing this horribly, even with the adversity. And it would have gone better if he had not wanted to trade ROR for months before 1 July 2018. And again, I would be thinking the same thing as in Note 1. So even as badly as the Sabres have done since the tank, it could still have turned out OK. I just think that in my method, we almost could not become as shambolically horrible as we are now.

You're on. First, I want a clearly competitive team. Therefore, when I unload my assets, I load up on picks, projects, passable NHLers, etc. with high character. I do not sign wastes of roster space. I hope that ALL of the younger players I acquire are good enough to be with the team within 3 years. My model is the 1995-6 Sabres. In 2013-4, I expect to trade Vanek, Ott, and Miller. I find veterans to keep Zemgus Girgensons, Johann Larsson, Nikita Zadorov, Rasmus Ristolainen, Nathan Lieuwen, Phil Varone, Jake McCabe, and Connor Knapp out of the NHL. I don't trade Andrei Sekera. I don't make the Brayden McNabb trade. I save all my picks and only move around the draft strategically. In 2014-5, I expect to trade Stafford. I never waste $6M of my boss's money on Meszaros, Benoit, and Strachan; I look for far better depth players. Again, none of the young players above gets to the NHL unless the team is not threatening the basement or the players are so good that I don't have a choice. I don't make the Evander Kane trade. I never, ever, ever undermine my coach and players with talk about McDavid. I squash "embrace the tank" every chance I get. I go on WGR and tell them why a rebuild with the target of great ensemble play is better than an all-out tank. I coach fans who dislike the tank how to counter idiocy that they are selfish, hate the team, hate their fellow fans, are complete unadulterated losers, etc. I don't trade away goaltenders who are winning; indeed, when we creep to within 4 points of a playoff spot, I tell the team that if they keep it up and are within 2 points of a playoff spot at the deadline, I will try to get some long-term help. In the draft, there will be clear 1st round talents in other drafts who could still be available in round 3. I husband my resources to draft as many players as I can. I don't move the basket of players for ROR. I try and sign some more youngish players with grit and talent. Here, I don't have to be perfect at every step of the way. I also have a sound foundation with an organisational philosophy of, "I don't care if we are rebuilding. I want us to win. And if you play suffer through the rebuild and play well enough, your reward will be to enjoy the good years as much as we can." Of all the coaches to get after The Tank, I don't know how much worse we could have done for the potential young depth players and DDB. He is notoriously horrible with younger players. Ted Nolan would have been infinitely preferable to DDB and many other coaches preferable to Nolan. I hated the tank from a philosophical viewpoint. I hated more its defenders who told me I am not a Sabres fan for wanting the team to win. I hated even more the jerks in the media who gave them the licence to bad mouth me at the games, pour beer over my turban when I cheered for a goal, or punch me when I smiled after a win.

If I remember correctly, the Sabres have never lost a game with a 5 goal lead. The last time they lost a game with a 4 goal lead was a game against Calgary I remember being on channel 29 once upon a time. (10-4 loss) Do we tie one of these records or beat them?

IMHO, he has the attitude of a mercenary now that Eichel is out -- he's not getting his big contract off the Sabres, so he just wants out.

I am in the group who can't get rid of his butt fast enough. I think he is almost as big a drag as Staal was. First rounder or other wise.

Let me quote an old Hockey News. "Of course the NHL does not like to enforce the rules. With the hook-and-hold, a thug is as useful as a hockey player, except that he comes a lot cheaper." They went to point out that only the Buffalo Sabres seemed to defy this small-market trend until 1995-6.

But, but, but, everyone says that if it were their kids, they would tell them to avoid Buffalo like the plague. You can't possibly wish that much ill-fate on fan favourites!