MakeSabresGrr8Again

Now that I agree with.

I hate when people make it look like it's just Casey. None of our wingers or C's have been good beyond the 1st line(4th line has fulfilled its role). They've been shuffled around to no end and with little results. I'm not sticking up for Casey, just pointing out there are multiple issues that coincide with the teams success or lack of.

I would still like to see him called up once for a few games before taking any action. What is the quality of linemates he's had over the two years? Just asking because it could make a difference. Last year not so great IIRC. This year better so, you could very well be right about moving on from him. I would expect better this year.

Thanks for posting these, I've only read the first one so far and can see issues with the article and also some positives. Issues....the article doesn't show or tell of what the return was for some of those picks. Zadorov/ Compher went in the O'Reilly trade and I would consider at least a decent return. Not only did we get Ryan for a few years of great service but the return that "might" yet come from trading him away. Lemieux went in the Jets trade and got us Kane and Bogo. Kane is another one that still might bring us a return that we could be talking about on these boards and Bogo has finally given us some good play and leadership. Leier may become more useful to us than Bailey (or not) and Guhle , Asplund, Nylander, and Cornel may yet make the NHL or bring something in a trade. So that basically leaves Hurley and Karabacek. I'm kind of disappointed in both of them as they seemed to have had some promise when they were drafted and showed good signs at their development camps. So, all-in-all, I don't feel like we did as bad as what they are projecting with the article. Maybe could be better in some regards for sure. The positives that I can see....Some teams that have not had many picks or have not draft well in the first 2rds are some of the best teams in the league such as Tampa, Pens, Preds, and SJ. Also that we were able to turn some players over for more useful players has been a plus. We have seemingly done well as of late in later round drafting. so things are looking up for the future and hopefully we actually "hit" on those picks. I think peoples perspective of picks like Mitts and Nylander are tainted by the "eye test" so far. They may turn out to be great picks even though they haven't yet shown much. The real problem I think is the draft positions. Sure we hit on Eichel and Dahlin and to a lesser extent Risto. But the picks outside of the top 3-5 seem more risky and need more development. Same with the middle of the round where the expectations are still a little higher. Our SJ pick is being thrown around in the trade threads mostly because the expectations aren't high enough and the risk is higher of getting the quality player some would expect from a 1st rd pick. People get caught up in the fact a player is a 1st rd'er and think they should score 100pts or be a #1D and play 1500 games in the NHL. With four 1st rd picks coming up we can afford to trade 1 for sure and maybe even 2 for the right players. The possibility of trading up or down could be a consideration also in order to get a better quality player or pick up more picks to hit on. So hold tight as I think good things are coming soon, whether at the deadline or the next 2 drafts or even FA.

Exactly, and that's why I said.... But you still haven't answered my question. Going back further only answers about 1/10th of the question. In fact , I'm more curious about this year only.

Personally, I'm not much of an adv stat guy. I do understand these but what I don't understand is why you went 1.5yrs. Why only Reinhart away from Jack? How does Skinner affect Jack's numbers? E. Kane? Pommers? TT? Sheary? Moulson? etc. How are Jack's numbers away from Sam this year only? Reinhart is our best RW and these numbers show that he is, and because he is our best it would be obvious Jack is better with him than without. People here are arguing that Reinhart can't lead play or a line away from Jack and yet you are saying that Reinhart makes our best players better. If that's true, great. What we really need is for him to be able to make our not so great players better.

just a reference to the "vision" thing....sarcasm? cliche? nothing meant by it. Sorry if you took any offense to it. I agree that there aren't many players I would use a 1st on. Hopefully , I fixed it for you.

If you're trading a 70pt winger because he doesn't fit your vision, then you either need binoculars or you better be trading for someone on the level of Couturier or better for a 2C. This is where I'd be willing to give up a 1st ++ to get a player like Couturier in order to keep Reino. In fact, I think the two could work well together and then find a winger for L1.

And comparing Darcy and JBots would be totally the same too.

I like it......do it again but put some ummmmph in it.

Conditional 1st, cond. 4th, Foley, and STL retained half of Stastny salary ($3.75M).

You can end up in cap hell either way, look at TO. I know Tavares doesn't help that any, but they were heading in that direction anyway. And they still have needs on D.

Maybe he is ROR and is upset that his team is behind us (at least for now). He might even have a different idea of where the "drive-thru" is.

Didn't Parise basically "go home" also, besides the contract he got?

JELLO FIGHT!!!!

Maybe Skinner can convince him like Moulson did with KO.

If Staal wants to WIN then I would guess it to be now rather than take a chance on a couple years from now. He's 34yrs old. I'm sure he would get respect from the room due to being a cup winner, but that also was going on 13yrs ago. I'm not tyring to take anything away from Staal or the impact he "could" have on the team. I would rather see if we could get him as a FA than giving up assets for him.

No sense in arguing anymore about this because now you're just being a Massive A**hole about it.

so you actually think that Olofsson-Mitts-Nylander could replace Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart on the 1st line? Heaven help us all. And when would this happen ....before or after the trade deadline? If you eventually bring up all these players how do you keep the pipeline in Roch stocked with this kind of talent without 1st rd and 2nd rd picks? Like I've said, I'm not opposed to maybe giving up a late 1st to add certain players that will help going forward. Get over the ROR trade.....I google the ROR trade and read many articles AND the links within them. The in general the feelings at the time of the trade and leading into the season were that we fleeced the Blues on that trade. Word on Bots that came up often was "impressive" that he got that done and didn't have to pay ROR bonus. Most articles and I believe most fans too, thought that Berglund /Sobotka would help this team at least short term more than they have(myself included). Based on previous career numbers they should've combined in production to the point of ROR's numbers (about 55-60pts). They were also to take over the face-off circle where ROR was 60%. Whether you believe it or not, they performed there respectfully (Berg was at 58% and Sobotka above 51%). There was no way Bots is at fault for Bergy leaving or knowing it would happen prior to the deal and yes it has had an impact on the team, we were winning before he left and still near the top of the league. Tage was supposed to be the prize piece and has been improving and might still become that. The 1st rd pick could still end up being the real prize providing that it's used correctly (which ever way Bots deems best, not a message board poster). All -in-all it will take some more time to build this roster to the point where we compete every year for a good amount of time instead of jumping around the standings forever. @LGR4GM....I only half agree with your assessment of Olofsson. He has 14g and only two of them on the PP, He may turn out to be a Skinner lite, good 5v5. He does have alot of assists on the PP though so that's where I agree with you. I would like to see him called up sometime soon to see if he can help our PP get a little action.

I think that Bots is gonna at least wait until the bewitching hour IF he makes a move at all. I believe he hopes that this young team that went on a 10 game streak (no matter how much luck may have contributed) can figure this out for themselves. That would be a bigger learning experience and confidence builder than bringing in someone that might give false hope that one player more is the difference between winning and losing. They already have shown evidence they can play with the big boys when on their game and following the system provided. I'm ok with trading a late 1st to get some of the players name on these threads as a 2C that have term, are young, and proven. I'm not at ease with the idea of a rental like Staal unless Bots is confident in re-signing another year or two if he feels necessary. There are enough vets here to advise these kids through this tough time and I feel they need to figure this out amongst themselves for the better of the teams future. If you can add a key piece to the future such as a Couturier or Schenn or the likes, then I'm in as long as we don't grossly over pay.

I would do something like... Skinner-McDavid-Nylander Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart CJ Smith-Mitts-TT Girgs-Lars-E Rod X-FW--Wilson McCabe-Risto Dahlin-Bogo Pilut-Borgen/Nelson Ullmark-Hutton

It's just more of an oil slick.

I think you've pretty much covered everything except that our management might additionally put us ahead. I think the part I quoted goes all the way back to that draft. We all said back then that McD was gonna be wasted in EDM. That's what led to people being pissed about the lottery.

Not correct. The first 2 cups they won Coffey had almost 100pts more than Messier. He was just as much an integral part of their winning. I used to think the same way as you until some discussions showed me otherwise. Not taking away from Messier, just adding Coffey. You can't deny that almost 250pts for a Dman in two years didn't "stir the drink", even if he was one of those bendy straws. Why are teams trying to emulate that style of Dman today....Dahlin?

You mean like the Caps/ Sharks game last night? Would've liked to have seen that one. E. Kane tied it up with 1 second left to send it to OT.