PerreaultForever

idk if that's true but Murray certainly recognized that the team needed more toughness then. He traded Zadorov away but he did add a number of tougher pieces to go around Eichel (who we know he wanted to be McDavid). I do wonder if we'd won that lottery if we wouldn't be where Edmonton is as although Eichel has won his cup and changed a lot, McDavid has always had more of an independent drive and work ethic. I think he would have been a better captain superstar (even if you don't look at the talent difference between them). On the downside, the D was in a shambles when he left and JBot was in a point of desperation trying to build any sort of competent D.

My point would be that there is enough high end talent. It's the culture that is broken. Yes, exactly. This is what I mean when I say the culture is broken.

Except, that should be enough shouldn't it? There's lots of NHL teams that don't have any more high end talent than that, but they do better.

I'm going to keep watching. I like sit coms.

Only problem with yet another tear down is we have already done it but each time we build it back wrong so if we don't change the methodology it will just repeat again.

Yes, in the last 2 periods if they wanted the puck they just took it and when they had it Sabres couldn't (or wouldn't) take it from them. They massed around the net and created lots of traffic, deflections, basic chaos. Exactly what Lindy has preached, because it's hockey 101, but Sabres generally don't/won't/can't do it. We can argue over which of those 3 things it is, but in all cases the end result is the same. At least Mitts wasn't a stand out. That would have been even harder to take.

Right Miss Positive. Maybe you can't articulate your own points. Colorado game just exemplified all of it again. Soft children playing against men. It's all on Pegula imo.

The nerve of those bastards switching goalies on us. Imagine how good Colorado would be if they had good goaltending? Just a pity we can't play a Georgiev every night. Then we might make the playoffs. Seems just about the only way. I got nothing. Men against boys.

Just to be clear I am not saying fight Foligno. I'm just saying get up and push back. As I've said in several other replies compare him to Benson. Small and young (younger) and yet he pushes back constantly. Initiates even. As far as I remember he hasn't had a single actual fight yet and he doesn't have to have one. He shouldn't at his size and age. So in this instance 1) Quinn should see him coming and brace for the contact. It was at the end of a play and Foligno just stuck out a shoulder, he wasn't even moving fast. You can shoulder back on that or at least brace for it. 2) give him a good whack back as it happens or from the ground 3) get angry and create a scrum and go after one of their smaller guys (letting one of your bigger guys go after him). It's all part of hockey. The highlighted line is most definitely true and it's what I said earlier in the year. He looks like a child. He looks like an 18 or 19 year old who you wonder if they are big and strong enough to be in the NHL or should they go back to junior and lift weights. He is still slight of frame and just a skinny kid. I don't ever remember Reinhart looking that slight as that age. First year he came in yes, but not at 23.

BS. Your reply is what a "keyboard warrior" does. Attack the poster, not the post. You know you wouldn't do that face to face in real life. That's not what people do in real life unless they are trying to start fights. It's not just that play. There's numerous times when he gives up the puck to avoid contact or he takes a long nothing shot or makes a weak pass to avoid it. Compare him to Benson, I dare you to consider that comparison as you watch a game. If you don't see the difference you just don't get hockey. The hit from Foligno I highlight because of how easily he went down, how nobody reacted, and how he just looked stunned and shocked like "hey, you can't do that to me" rather than giving anything back or even being just angry about it. It was weak.

Young does not equate to soft. Benson is in the top 5 or 6 of the team in terms of grit. Everyone can see that and the fact that that stands out so much exemplifies how soft the rest of them are. We simply should NOT be noticing Benson's grit as much as we do but it's all relative.

I get that. The internet does paint a very black and white view of things and tends to make it look like you are all one way or the opposite. You don't really know the people on the other end. If any of us were talking about it in a coffee shop or bar or even in our living rooms watching the game we'd have much different views of each other.

Personally fan talk gets boring and repetitive when things are good. If things are going well there's no reason to dissect anything you just kick back and enjoy the ride. When things are going badly you argue about what the biggest issue is and how to fix it and everybody has an idea and they are not always the same idea. Far more interesting for discussion. So do not mistake silence in good times for unappreciation. We just don't get many good times here.

I love it how every year the Sabres disappoint and the fans start to turn on each other and take it out on them instead of the team. It's an annual event that usually starts around this time.

I figured that would ruffle some feathers. Consider however, that 1) he went down fast and easy with just a shoulder and 2) he did nothing and not a single Sabre on the ice did anything either. So give me more red X's if it makes you feel better about it, but it won't change it.

That is a pathetic reply.

He was warned earlier in the season. It's about time. I think he is under greater scrutiny in Edmonton than he was in Buffalo so these sort of things are just getting noticed. Long overdue imo.

I can't see that being the issue. If it was you'd notice it in his skating and his skating is fine. imo he's just a soft coward. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Foligno knocking him flat with a shoulder sums it up. He still looks like a child playing with men and is only effective in open ice.

I will give you the definition, and it has nothing to do with fighting. Yes, gritty hard nosed players are generally tougher and more ready and willing to drop them, but it's not what determines tenacity and grit. What it is is going after a loose puck and/or hounding an opponent who has the puck. Going after it regardless of how big or tough the opponent near it is. Going for it and not giving up on going for it until there's a whistle or a goal. Moving past and through a defender who wants to use his physicality to keep you from it. Being relentless in that pursuit and taking the contact, the bumps and the bruises along the way. It's also initiating some of that contact to intimidate the opposition and have them back off, or at least throw off their timing and puck movement rather than just defending in a passive manner that only plays the puck and not the body. It's Benson. But Benson is small and young so he has limited effectiveness. If the big bodies on this team played with Benson's tenacity and grit this team would be a force, but it's not. It has speed, skill and offensive potential but it's soft as butter and will never win in the playoffs with that if it can ever even get there. It's also Greenway, but only sometimes. When he is that guy he's effective but he's only occasionally that guy and often he just doesn't seem to care and I guess he's injury prone or ? (no idea but he's out a lot in the time we've had him). It's no one else on a consistent basis.

Since you've "had this argument" with "countless fans, numbers untold" has the possibility that your position on it is simply dead wrong ever entered your brain? The word I used was "VALUED" those type of players. The list you give is mostly in the last 2 years, which is as I also said, a recent small attempt. (not that Clifton etc. are all that gritty, but it has been a slight recognition of this problem). Deslauriers is a perfect example of a guy we didn't value, just like we didn't value Foligno. Scott was a Lucic response for sure, but that was a temporary measure to say the least. Getting into ROR and Kane/Bogo is a whole different discussion involving Murray and his perhaps conflicting views with Pegula. Show me ONE SEASON in these 13 years where the Sabres were not viewed as soft by the rest of the league. You can't.

Yup. Since Pegula took over they have never valued grinders, muckers, checkers, 2 way guys with grit, whatever you want to call them. Last 2 years there's been a small recognition of this and so they've brought in Greenway, Malentstyn, Gilbert, but nothing for the core really. Nothing substantial. It's a long standing mistake most exemplified by trading away Foligno. You need a balanced roster and you need toughness with your speed and finesse. It's never really been any different and why they haven't got that is beyond me (but likely because of Pegula and what he wants and values).

I'd steer clear. He was one of the people they cleared out in Philly. There's issues.

They have energy, they lack tenacity. They do not fight for pucks and win puck battles the way good teams do. Aside from Benson and occasionally one or two others but not all the time.

Some of them might. Those that do get bag skated.

Just getting in is everything. It gives them a taste. It gives the fans hope. It makes them legit again. Once they have that taste they will want it again and then you can tweak and make moves to get a better playoff style roster if needed, but you have to walk up the steps and not try to leap to the top from the bottom.