GASabresIUFAN

We need someone who can teach, who can coach well in games, who can construct lines and has the players respect. He also needs to hold his players to account. He also needs players willing to listen and willing to give maximum effort. Barry Trotz. The coach also needs a full roster. Good goaltending helps. Granato did alot of these things. I liked went me moved Thompson off Mitt’s line when he had an awful game. It would be interesting to hear what the players says about him. Right now I give him a 60% chance of keeping the job.

Apparently, but how do we replace Jack and Sam and if we trade them how will that make us better? No one cares if Girgensons returns or not, but a buyout is unlikely. We all want KO to go, but it's virtually impossible and a buyout makes no cap or financial sense next season. Skinner's deal is worse. That leaves McCabe (UFA), Ullmark (UFA) and Risto. the first two may leave on their own accord thus KA will have to replace our best (only?) defensive D man and the goalie that finished 5th in the NHL (11th overall) in save %. Good luck KA. As to Risto, no question he has faults and maybe both parties need a fresh start, but find me a physical D who can put up 30-40 points a season to replace him for 5 mill or under. Now also tell me what assets we can get for Risto and what assets we'd have to spend to get him and lets see if it's actually worth while.

Think about it from Sam's point of view. The team has gone through 5 coaches and 3 GMs since he's been here. The team has finished at the bottom of the league 4 times. The new GM adds a former MVP (Hall) and a Cup Winner and former top pick (Staal), while bringing back the majority of players and coaches from a decent team the year before and the whole group fails and fails in Biblical proportion. On the bright side injuries and then trades essentially decimate the team, but the youth movement creates better play and some hope. So if your Sam, Ullmark, Risto, Jack, and McCabe what are you thinking. Is this team finally on the rise? How much of the sucking is your fault? What is the Pegula circus going to do next? I think I'd enter the "show me" phase. Karmanos was a good first step toward fixing the front office. Do they want Granato to return? If not, what does the coaching search look like. Torts is the wrong guy. We need a teacher. What tweaks or major changes do they want to see? Risto is right, no more rebuilds. This team must compete for the playoffs next season. IMHO solve the goaltending first and foremost and then things will fall into place. Interesting stat in the paper today about how the Granato lead team gave up more goals then the RK lead group. Honestly I caulk that up more to the injuries on D and in goal then bad play. In fact the difference isn't that great considering the youth on the defense and that Tokarski, UPL and Houser (3 minor league goalies) held the net for most of Granato's games.

Gotcha. My bad. Yes i was trolling Jack. It seemed appropriate.

You are laughing at my list and don’t have Ullmark on yours at all. You think that Asplund, a guy with 14 career points, is a better hockey player then Ullmark, a goalie that finished 11th in the save% in the NHl this season whole playing on the worst NHL team. Now that is funny.

So now it begins. What are the odds that McCabe and Ullmark return? I suspect that McCabe will get a better deal to stay then he will elsewhere, but Ullmark the opposite is probably true.

Why, then you lose two players. All you'll get back for Miller is a 3rd or 4th rd pick. I'd rather keep one of the kids and save the $4 mill in cap.

1. Reinhart 2. Jack 3. Ullmark 4. Dahlin 5. McCabe 6. Mittelstadt 7. Ristolainen 8. Skinner 9. Olofsson 10. Bryson or Jokiharju

Interesting thoughts but not exactly accurate. This team has been solid not for the last 10 games but the last 21. Mitts has 17 pts in his last 21 games. That isn’t bare competence that’s high end 2C production and it’s been consistent since he assumed the role. Reinhart is our best option at 2C as he has also proven this season. No one is trading us a capable 2C and it’s folly to continue to believe they will, especially with KA as GM and two legit candidates already here and producing. Also who are you willing to part with to acquire this mythical 2C, because they’ll ask for Cozens plus. It’s cap foolish as well. I do agree that we need to get tougher upfront and am also on board with adding veteran depth on D, especially if McCabe walks, but trading productive kids on bargain contracts is again cap mis-management. Finding hockey trades for someone like VO to get more physical upfront makes some sense, but to simply move on from the kids because they are “surplus” doesn’t work in a cap world because their trade value is limited and you’d have to replace them with the Sheahans of the world at the same cost or more then you were paying someone like Asplund. Smaller hockey trades swapping excess young winger for an excess young D makes sense on paper but isn’t exactly a need here. Right now we have internal candidates for nearly every job. We have 4 centers for the top 3 jobs in Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts and Cozens. We have 8 plus wingers including kids, Asplund, R2, Thompson, Bjork, Cozens, and Quinn, plus vets Skinner, Girgensons and VO (age wise). On defense we have vets Risto, and Miller, plus kids Dahlin, Borgen, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Bryson under contract or control. The only thing we don’t have is goaltending. With Ullmark in net this season we played at a playoff level with both coaches but better under Granato. This status quo team with the return of McCabe and Ullmark or similar UFAs will cost 77 million. It’s great to say bring in vets over and over again, but it hasn’t exactly worked. Sheary KO, Staal, Gionta, Scandella, Pominville, and Gorges all came from winning organizations and did nothing. We also really can’t afford to bring in a bunch of contracts. The strategy now is to trim the fat. Getting rid of Bjork, Eakin and Miller is a great place to start. This frees up the money to add more physical and scoring depth upfront and replace McCabe if he walks. How do we do this? Eakin is demoted to the AHL, you give Seattle a draft pick to take Miller, and hopefully you can swap Bjork for the 4C we need to replace Lazar and the failed Eakin experiment. Ultimately this is actually the time for patience. Next season is the season when the kids get to make the team their own.

Seriously, Who are we exposing exactly? G) Tokarski - anyone really worried about losing him? D) Likely Borgen (only14 games of NHL experience at 24) and Miller F) Girgensons, Eakin, Bjork and Okposo Not exactly a list of all-stars or players we’ll actually miss if they are taken. Except maybe Borgen, I think we’d all like to move on from all these guys.

@dudacek-pointed out they haven’t been dead last since the kids took over, not even close. They would have had to be the best team in the NHL to get out of the hole RK dug for them. Instead, without Eichel, Hall and Staal these kids have taken a dead last team that was scoring 2 goals a game, and turned the team into a competitive team scoring 3.14 goals a game.

....and without Eichel, McCabe and Ullmark.

@Weave Which of these performances specifically do you think is an aberration and won’t carry over to next season in the stated role. 1. Mittelstadt - playing extremely well as a 2C? Likely earning the 3C role next year when Eichel returns 2. Reinhart - playing excellently as a 1C? Likely playing the 2C role next season. 3. Bryson - playing solid top 4 D? Earning a full time job next season. 4. Asplund - playing well as a middle six winger and continuing as Mitt’s winger next season. 5. Thompson - see Asplund.

Weren't vets like Kane, Bogo, Okposo, Gionta, Georges, ROR, Pominville, Scandella and others brought in to support the kids and teach them how to win? We even added an MVP in Hall and a Cup winner in Staal. Hasn't done any good, because as @LGR4GM has pointed out the crap job DR and TM did drafting players to build around. Truth is we have vets here now to support the kids such as Skinner, McCabe, KO, and Ullmark. McCabe and Ullmark were playing their best hockey before injuries derailed their seasons. Despite this the kids have come in an done the job. Mostly Jbot acquisitions such as R2, Thompson, Mitts, Cozens, Bryson, UPL and Samuelsson. 🙂 I have always believed the best way to build a team is to draft well and let the kids grow together. Once they have done that, then supplement to fill holes. This is what the Pens and Blackhawks did. For example the Blackhawks. From 2002 to 2007 they drafted the following - 2002 - Keith, Wisniewski, and Burish, 2003 - Seabrook, Crawford, and Byfuglien, 2004 - Barker, Bolland, Bickell, and Bouwer, 2005 - Skille and Hjalmarsson, 2006 - Toews and 2007 - Kane. First playoffs came in 2008-9 featuring 10 of the guys listed here. The Hawks added Sharp in 2005, but Versteeg and Campbell came in 2008 and Hossa in 2009. Build your core first and then supplement. We did the reverse.

Exactly. @tom webster would correctly point out that most 19 year olds aren't physically ready for the grind of the NHL. Add the compressed schedule and you get one tired kid.

Is Girgensons is the only example you can come up with? Larsson once had a bigger role and failed at it. However we have seen the opposite as well. Hasek, Pominville, and Vanek to name but 3. McCabe and Ullmark have literally improved every year in pro hockey. Do you think players like Tuch and Karlson would have been made available in expansion if their original team had known what they could become. How do ever know what someone can do unless you give them a chance to show what they can do? Why pigeon hole someone? Mitts is showing every night he is ready for the role he is playing. I'd say Cozens is the opposite right now, but I'm not worried about him at all. This is the first truly real chance Thompson and Asplund have really been given. KA and Jbot kept bringing in guys like Vesey, Sheary, Rieder, Eakin, and Sheahan making it easy to pull the plug on our kids in favor of the more veteran player. That has been a mistake and this season is proving it.

KO was better also under Granato until he got hurt. No I'm not discounting his improvement, but pointing out that we are stuck with these two significantly overpaid players.

I think Skinner is significantly better now that RK is gone, gone ,gone. A 40 pt pace is solid for a lower end 2nd line player or a top end 3rd line player and if he can play consistently at that level his horrible contract becomes just a lousy contract but at least he'll be contributing. As everyone knows, I'm thrilled for Casey, but I think Sam is the 2C next season with Mitts centering two of Asplund, R2 and/or Thompson. They should have some significant mismatches.

They should get a good 4C if they can. I doubt Larsson would want to return but anything is possible. I'd try Eric Haula. I also agree with putting Cozens as a top 6 RW next season. Reinhart should be the 2C and Mitts the 3C. The line of Asplund Mitts and Thompson should remain together.

No we don't and we don't have to the cap space to make wholesale changes that you and others want. The only way this team improves is if the kids continue their upward trajectory. Skinner and KO are 15 mill of dead money. Jack also gets 10. Once Dahlin and Reinhart are re-signed we are on the hook for another 12-13 mill. That means that 5 players, only 3 of which are productive, eat up nearly 50% of the cap with $38 million. That means we have to add 17 players for about 42 million. To accomplish this we can afford to make certain tweaks but the majority of the jobs will go (and should go) to the kids. Honestly the kids have earned those jobs regardless of cap. At forward, Mitts has 17 pts in his last 21 games (9g 8a). Asplund has 11 pts in his 27 games including 7 goals (approx. 33 pts for a full season). Thompson has 12 points in his last 22 games. R2 has 5 goals in his first 16 NHL games. That's one more then Hall and EIchel combined this season (and they played 58 games between them). On defense Bryson has chipped in 9 pts in 37 games but is only -1 averaging 19 minutes a night. Since RK was punted Dahlin is playing at his 40 pt pace and is only -2 in 21 games averaging over 23 minutes a night. Jokiharju has made a similar turnaround going from 15 minutes a night under RK to 20 and playing better all around hockey in the process. With Ullmark in net this team was 9-6-3 for the season. That about a 96 pt pace for a full season. In 8 games with Granato as HC and the kids playing in front of him, he went 4-2-2 for 10 pts or a 102 pt pace.

Never said that was all we needed. Solid goaltending, a tougher middle forward, one maybe 2 defensive D are all on my list for next season. However instead of needing wholesale changes we finally have a core group of players to build around in Cozens, Jack, Mitts, r2, Reinhart, Bryson, Dahlin, and Joker among others and young depth like Asplund, VO, Thompson, Borgen, Samuelsson etc... For some reason many here want to continue to wipe the slate clean and start again, again. We have on this board threads to trade Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts, Risto and others and honestly that makes zero sense.

That's BS. This team with all the kids and without Ullmark, Eichel and McCabe, 3 vital players, is 9-10-2 in the last 21 games. 6-24-4 in the first 34. The improvement has lasted more then 10 games, but thanks for playing. They have survived despite starting goaltenders who were supposed to be in the minor in UPL, Tokaraski and now Houser. 5 of the 9 wins have comes against Bos, NYI (2), Wash and Pitt. Goals for over the last 21 games are 3.14 per game. First 34 games was 2.03. Even strength goals are even more pronounced. Had UIlmark stayed healthy the win total would have been even higher. This team is still a work in progress but add solid goaltending and you have a very competitive team.

The day they fired RK. I may be in the minority here, but this season may have been the best thing to happen to this franchise since the Pegulas took over. 1) the worst coach ever was removed. 2) Our weakness in goal was made so clear that even a GM as incompetent as KA understands the problems 3) The strategy of continuing adding "proven" vets to fix all the roster issues is finally over. Gone are (or soon will be) Staal, Hall, Rieder, Sheahan, Hutton, Irwin, and hopefully Eakin. (aka basically everyone KA added to this roster last off-season). 4) Our pipelines was finally deep enough to field a team of our prospects and once injuries and trades cleaned out the vets, the kids played bigger roles and the team improved setting the course going forward. 7 rookies appeared this year. Key prospects like Bryson, Mitts, R2, Asplund, Thompson and Cozens earned permanent jobs. 5) Because of all the kids at forward and defense, KA really doesn't have to do much but solve the goaltending and re-sign the RFAs and two internal UFAs to field a solid young team next season. This will save him from himself. It's not a complete roster, but it's close and instead of needing wholesale changes all we really need is a physical middle six winger, a 4C, and possibly one or two defensive D (plus goalies). The D are solved by keeping Borgen and McCabe and 50% of the goalie issue is solved by re-signing Ullmark. This is an off-season that even KA should be able to handle with Karmanos' help. Bottomline we are finally playing a proper rebuild team with our guys and they should grow from here. Further good news is more talent is one the way. Laaksonen, Johnson, UPL, Murray, Quinn, JJP, and this year's top pick are already getting call ups or are tracking toward the NHL sooner then later.

Assuming for arguments sake we get the 1st overall pick. Is this a draft where you trade down to pick up more assets?

He’ll be the number one center on a playoff team featuring the deepest centers group we’ve had since 2007.