GASabresIUFAN

Jack vs the Knife. I'm curious about how dangerous the surgery is and what the recovery period is. I also am not sure what kind of leverage the team has over a player to keep him from doing what is best for his health. I can understand that Jack and the team might want to have delayed the surgery if he couldn't make it worse during the season, but once he was out, way delay the surgery? This controversy is missing some details. That said Jack is under contract and it isn't playing for anyone else unless the team agrees. He can holdout, I guess, but what did that do for Peca? His only leverage is the NMC that kicks in after next season. Like Sam, that gives him a chance to heel and see the direction of the club and gives the Sabres time to evaluate offers and the team's progress as well. Obviously everyone would be happier with a resolution sooner than later, but because of the how this season went, the resolution probably has to wait. I was against moving both Sam and Jack, but looking at the Oilers who moved on from Hall (No. 1 overall in 2010) and Yakupov (No.1 2012) when that first attempted rebuild failed. However they kept their version of Sam, Ryan Nugent Hopkins (No. 1 2011). My thought here is with the move of Sam to center, the development of Mitts and Cozens, we could actually trade Jack like Edm traded Hall and possibly improve the club long-term. Adding someone like Berniers in the draft will also help. As I've said before Sam showed more leadership in the second half of this season on the ice then Jack has ever shown.

Again it depends. If the team is good he'll re-sign again to be a corner stone of a winning team. If not you an always trade him at the deadline. We'll probably get more this summer, but if he has a blow out year at center then his value could skyrocket. I maybe wrong about this but Sam could go (or be forced) to arbitration. If Sam asks for arbitration then the Sabres can ask for a one or two year deal. If the team forces arbitration, then Sam can elect a one or two year deal. If they aren't close to a deal, I can see Sam asking for arbitration based on his goal scoring this season and the Sabres can then ask for a two year contract. This would give the Sabres more breathing room to discuss trades during the off-season or at the deadline and also give Sam more breathing room to determine the direction of the club. Its going to be an interesting summer.

I guess, but only if we get an Eric Lindros type haul for Eichel. The only true advantage I see in removing the 2 best forwards from the team is the cap savings. Winning cures all ills. If KA and his team can make the right decisions by getting good goaltending and a couple good defensive D, then this team with Jack and Sam is good enough to make the playoffs. Jack, Risto and Sam are all right to be pissed and ashamed as to where this team is, but they also bare some of the responsibility. Honestly, after Jack went down, this was the first time Sam showed real on the ice leadership IMHO and it made a difference.

Sorry but Jack isn't going anywhere and either is Sam. Jack needs to prove he is healthy and Sam needs to prove he can be an effective NHL center for a full season.

That is where the neck injury occurred. He was starring up at Josh Allen's pedicle.

How much was bad goaltending? How much was injuries to guys like Borgen and McCabe? How much was do to youth? I’d also like to see the numbers split into RK vs Granato especially for Dahlin and Jokiharju. If I’m reading your numbers correctly Bryson was the best of the young D.

We need someone who can teach, who can coach well in games, who can construct lines and has the players respect. He also needs to hold his players to account. He also needs players willing to listen and willing to give maximum effort. Barry Trotz. The coach also needs a full roster. Good goaltending helps. Granato did alot of these things. I liked went me moved Thompson off Mitt’s line when he had an awful game. It would be interesting to hear what the players says about him. Right now I give him a 60% chance of keeping the job.

Apparently, but how do we replace Jack and Sam and if we trade them how will that make us better? No one cares if Girgensons returns or not, but a buyout is unlikely. We all want KO to go, but it's virtually impossible and a buyout makes no cap or financial sense next season. Skinner's deal is worse. That leaves McCabe (UFA), Ullmark (UFA) and Risto. the first two may leave on their own accord thus KA will have to replace our best (only?) defensive D man and the goalie that finished 5th in the NHL (11th overall) in save %. Good luck KA. As to Risto, no question he has faults and maybe both parties need a fresh start, but find me a physical D who can put up 30-40 points a season to replace him for 5 mill or under. Now also tell me what assets we can get for Risto and what assets we'd have to spend to get him and lets see if it's actually worth while.

Think about it from Sam's point of view. The team has gone through 5 coaches and 3 GMs since he's been here. The team has finished at the bottom of the league 4 times. The new GM adds a former MVP (Hall) and a Cup Winner and former top pick (Staal), while bringing back the majority of players and coaches from a decent team the year before and the whole group fails and fails in Biblical proportion. On the bright side injuries and then trades essentially decimate the team, but the youth movement creates better play and some hope. So if your Sam, Ullmark, Risto, Jack, and McCabe what are you thinking. Is this team finally on the rise? How much of the sucking is your fault? What is the Pegula circus going to do next? I think I'd enter the "show me" phase. Karmanos was a good first step toward fixing the front office. Do they want Granato to return? If not, what does the coaching search look like. Torts is the wrong guy. We need a teacher. What tweaks or major changes do they want to see? Risto is right, no more rebuilds. This team must compete for the playoffs next season. IMHO solve the goaltending first and foremost and then things will fall into place. Interesting stat in the paper today about how the Granato lead team gave up more goals then the RK lead group. Honestly I caulk that up more to the injuries on D and in goal then bad play. In fact the difference isn't that great considering the youth on the defense and that Tokarski, UPL and Houser (3 minor league goalies) held the net for most of Granato's games.

Gotcha. My bad. Yes i was trolling Jack. It seemed appropriate.

You are laughing at my list and don’t have Ullmark on yours at all. You think that Asplund, a guy with 14 career points, is a better hockey player then Ullmark, a goalie that finished 11th in the save% in the NHl this season whole playing on the worst NHL team. Now that is funny.

So now it begins. What are the odds that McCabe and Ullmark return? I suspect that McCabe will get a better deal to stay then he will elsewhere, but Ullmark the opposite is probably true.

Why, then you lose two players. All you'll get back for Miller is a 3rd or 4th rd pick. I'd rather keep one of the kids and save the $4 mill in cap.

1. Reinhart 2. Jack 3. Ullmark 4. Dahlin 5. McCabe 6. Mittelstadt 7. Ristolainen 8. Skinner 9. Olofsson 10. Bryson or Jokiharju

Interesting thoughts but not exactly accurate. This team has been solid not for the last 10 games but the last 21. Mitts has 17 pts in his last 21 games. That isn’t bare competence that’s high end 2C production and it’s been consistent since he assumed the role. Reinhart is our best option at 2C as he has also proven this season. No one is trading us a capable 2C and it’s folly to continue to believe they will, especially with KA as GM and two legit candidates already here and producing. Also who are you willing to part with to acquire this mythical 2C, because they’ll ask for Cozens plus. It’s cap foolish as well. I do agree that we need to get tougher upfront and am also on board with adding veteran depth on D, especially if McCabe walks, but trading productive kids on bargain contracts is again cap mis-management. Finding hockey trades for someone like VO to get more physical upfront makes some sense, but to simply move on from the kids because they are “surplus” doesn’t work in a cap world because their trade value is limited and you’d have to replace them with the Sheahans of the world at the same cost or more then you were paying someone like Asplund. Smaller hockey trades swapping excess young winger for an excess young D makes sense on paper but isn’t exactly a need here. Right now we have internal candidates for nearly every job. We have 4 centers for the top 3 jobs in Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts and Cozens. We have 8 plus wingers including kids, Asplund, R2, Thompson, Bjork, Cozens, and Quinn, plus vets Skinner, Girgensons and VO (age wise). On defense we have vets Risto, and Miller, plus kids Dahlin, Borgen, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Bryson under contract or control. The only thing we don’t have is goaltending. With Ullmark in net this season we played at a playoff level with both coaches but better under Granato. This status quo team with the return of McCabe and Ullmark or similar UFAs will cost 77 million. It’s great to say bring in vets over and over again, but it hasn’t exactly worked. Sheary KO, Staal, Gionta, Scandella, Pominville, and Gorges all came from winning organizations and did nothing. We also really can’t afford to bring in a bunch of contracts. The strategy now is to trim the fat. Getting rid of Bjork, Eakin and Miller is a great place to start. This frees up the money to add more physical and scoring depth upfront and replace McCabe if he walks. How do we do this? Eakin is demoted to the AHL, you give Seattle a draft pick to take Miller, and hopefully you can swap Bjork for the 4C we need to replace Lazar and the failed Eakin experiment. Ultimately this is actually the time for patience. Next season is the season when the kids get to make the team their own.

Seriously, Who are we exposing exactly? G) Tokarski - anyone really worried about losing him? D) Likely Borgen (only14 games of NHL experience at 24) and Miller F) Girgensons, Eakin, Bjork and Okposo Not exactly a list of all-stars or players we’ll actually miss if they are taken. Except maybe Borgen, I think we’d all like to move on from all these guys.

@dudacek-pointed out they haven’t been dead last since the kids took over, not even close. They would have had to be the best team in the NHL to get out of the hole RK dug for them. Instead, without Eichel, Hall and Staal these kids have taken a dead last team that was scoring 2 goals a game, and turned the team into a competitive team scoring 3.14 goals a game.

....and without Eichel, McCabe and Ullmark.

@Weave Which of these performances specifically do you think is an aberration and won’t carry over to next season in the stated role. 1. Mittelstadt - playing extremely well as a 2C? Likely earning the 3C role next year when Eichel returns 2. Reinhart - playing excellently as a 1C? Likely playing the 2C role next season. 3. Bryson - playing solid top 4 D? Earning a full time job next season. 4. Asplund - playing well as a middle six winger and continuing as Mitt’s winger next season. 5. Thompson - see Asplund.

Weren't vets like Kane, Bogo, Okposo, Gionta, Georges, ROR, Pominville, Scandella and others brought in to support the kids and teach them how to win? We even added an MVP in Hall and a Cup winner in Staal. Hasn't done any good, because as @LGR4GM has pointed out the crap job DR and TM did drafting players to build around. Truth is we have vets here now to support the kids such as Skinner, McCabe, KO, and Ullmark. McCabe and Ullmark were playing their best hockey before injuries derailed their seasons. Despite this the kids have come in an done the job. Mostly Jbot acquisitions such as R2, Thompson, Mitts, Cozens, Bryson, UPL and Samuelsson. 🙂 I have always believed the best way to build a team is to draft well and let the kids grow together. Once they have done that, then supplement to fill holes. This is what the Pens and Blackhawks did. For example the Blackhawks. From 2002 to 2007 they drafted the following - 2002 - Keith, Wisniewski, and Burish, 2003 - Seabrook, Crawford, and Byfuglien, 2004 - Barker, Bolland, Bickell, and Bouwer, 2005 - Skille and Hjalmarsson, 2006 - Toews and 2007 - Kane. First playoffs came in 2008-9 featuring 10 of the guys listed here. The Hawks added Sharp in 2005, but Versteeg and Campbell came in 2008 and Hossa in 2009. Build your core first and then supplement. We did the reverse.

Exactly. @tom webster would correctly point out that most 19 year olds aren't physically ready for the grind of the NHL. Add the compressed schedule and you get one tired kid.

Is Girgensons is the only example you can come up with? Larsson once had a bigger role and failed at it. However we have seen the opposite as well. Hasek, Pominville, and Vanek to name but 3. McCabe and Ullmark have literally improved every year in pro hockey. Do you think players like Tuch and Karlson would have been made available in expansion if their original team had known what they could become. How do ever know what someone can do unless you give them a chance to show what they can do? Why pigeon hole someone? Mitts is showing every night he is ready for the role he is playing. I'd say Cozens is the opposite right now, but I'm not worried about him at all. This is the first truly real chance Thompson and Asplund have really been given. KA and Jbot kept bringing in guys like Vesey, Sheary, Rieder, Eakin, and Sheahan making it easy to pull the plug on our kids in favor of the more veteran player. That has been a mistake and this season is proving it.

KO was better also under Granato until he got hurt. No I'm not discounting his improvement, but pointing out that we are stuck with these two significantly overpaid players.

I think Skinner is significantly better now that RK is gone, gone ,gone. A 40 pt pace is solid for a lower end 2nd line player or a top end 3rd line player and if he can play consistently at that level his horrible contract becomes just a lousy contract but at least he'll be contributing. As everyone knows, I'm thrilled for Casey, but I think Sam is the 2C next season with Mitts centering two of Asplund, R2 and/or Thompson. They should have some significant mismatches.

They should get a good 4C if they can. I doubt Larsson would want to return but anything is possible. I'd try Eric Haula. I also agree with putting Cozens as a top 6 RW next season. Reinhart should be the 2C and Mitts the 3C. The line of Asplund Mitts and Thompson should remain together.