FogBat

Thanks. I forgot about those. I wouldn't want to be anywhere close to Chechnya!

China and Myanmar, SFAIK.

I've been a believer for 31 years. There have been a lot of growing pains on my part. At the same time, they have also been blessings to me in retrospect. After justification, it's all been sanctification. Eventually, it will be glorification. Having said that, please listen to what I'm about to say. You're making this all about you, not Christ. These guys probably know more about Christianity than you do - and possibly more than me. The other issue that goes alongside is that you are insulting their intelligence. It's all over this thread. You need to get over yourself. I'm not saying these things to throw you under the bus. Frankly, you've done that to yourself. I'm actually trying to help you to avoid getting more eggs thrown in your face.

???!!! That was brilliant! He doesn't know how to play his cards right. Plus, I don't think he knows how to dialogue and get to know the other side better without compromising his convictions. Nothing against NS, but I'd have to say that I wasn't using my better judgment in the past when I let Islamophobia get the better of me - and that led me to reject getting to better know my neighbor. By this attitude, I violated the second greatest commandment: love your neighbor as yourself.

Two words: fair game It never goes out of season.

I accept your apology, and I apologize for my un-Christlike conduct toward you in the past. Having said that, he said that his only mentor is Jesus. That is only partly true. Whoever teaches us their theological interpretation will greatly influence us. Someone has to be discipling him somehow at this time. You and I are both being discipled by different men. The scary part is that I know exactly where he's coming from. I've been there. Even when I was first introduced to Calvinism a few years into my pilgrimage, I was ignorant, cocky, and went "guns-a-blazin' ". Needless to say, I turned a lot of people off because of my myopic arrogance. If anything, theology can be a dangerous weapon when it's in the wrong hands.

1, if there's anything I've learned in recent years, it's that many evangelicals have zeal, passion, AND ignorance. I have no problem with being a witness for Christ. But, any mission field requires getting to know the culture - right down to nuances, customs, and courtesies (not to mention languages). Even our own backyard is no exception to this! This is why I have taken the time to get to know the Sikhs that have come into the trucking industry. They have a very fascinating culture and belief system. And, of course, they know a thing or two about Christianity and Christians in general. As I just said in my reply to the other guy, I strive to be as balanced as possible. His posts on here bear a tragic resemblance to mowing everyone down with a machine gun. 2, please understand that not every Christian is overbearing like this. Here is a formal, moderated debate between a Christian textual critic scholar and a Muslim scholar:

First of all, I had no intention of being condescending toward you. I apologize if it came across that way, but it was clearly not my intent. I've known these guys for quite some time. I have a clue what to expect from them. The purpose of this thread was to discuss aspects of different religions with mutual respect while maybe even agreeing to disagree and leaving things at that. Instead, you came in here and started thumping your Bible very hard on all of us. As I've said, I know exactly where you're coming from. Ask the admin, the mods, and the forum veterans. They can all tell you what kind of obnoxious PITA I was in the past. I believe very strongly in being as balanced as possible. I wasn't always like that. I try to stay as informed as much as possible, so that way I know where the other side is coming from. Also, I don't see myself as being "Stoic". There are times where I will take a stand and fight - which is something you should know from Ecclesiastes 3. I have zero patience with false teachers who claim to be "Christian", and I have no qualms with calling them out. (The Pirate Christian Radio podcast does this as well.) In a nutshell, some fights are not worth picking. Lest I forget, I accept your apology.

I was thinking the same thing. You beat me to it. ?

Wh Hoo boy. That was a doozie to read! It makes me wonder if you've been influenced by controversial IFB preacher Steven Anderson out of the Phoenix metro area. ATST means At The Same Time. FYI, we tend to use a lot of acronyms around here to shorten things up while getting the point across. Otherwise, it becomes TLDR. (Look that one up on Google) I've heard of quite a few preachers in my time, but not the ones you quoted. (Charles Aked, Clarence Jordan) Mr. Aked sounds like he was greatly influenced by Billy Sunday from that quote. But for you to say that people like me are too timid, that was both ignorant and insulting. You don't appear to have a clue what kind of people you're dealing with here. This is clearly a mixed group. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Trust me: I learned this the hard way. They know where I stand. They can all tell you this. As for being insulted, I frankly don't care if you apologize to me or not; but you owe it to the rest of the forum to apologize to them for being overbearing and obnoxious. I sure hope so. I couldn't agree more. This is SabreSpace, not Big Tent Revival.

I wish I DID have the time!

I remember when a dear friend of mine (and fellow believer) told me how he recalled the night when he lost his wife of 43 years back in 2006 (5 years to the day after 9/11). She'd had a massive stroke and was struggling to breathe on a ventilator. He left the hospital for the night since he couldn't stay awake and drove home from Rochester to Pavilion. About 10.45 that night, he felt like a door was slammed shut. 15 minutes later, he got the call from the hospital. They asked for him. He replied, "I already know." I can't begin to imagine how hard it was for him to deal with losing his wife. I only have maybe the slightest idea. I'll never forget him telling me, "It just hurts." But he made it clear to me that if it wasn't for his walk with Christ, he would have done what a seriously depressed neighbor did: literally his brains out.

I'm hoping that etiennep99 sees that I've responded to some of his stuff and sees where I'm coming from. ATST, how he's being discipled and who's teaching him can have plenty of bearing on his views.

I was being facetious.

Case in point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Banned_Wikipedia_users And this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Go_ahead,_vandalize

I know that Snopes has taken plenty of heat for not favoring one side or the other (for the most part). They don't claim to be perfect. But it's my understanding that they strive to be as accurate as possible. And the downside of Wikipedia is that it can be a target for vandalism (which is why college professors almost always put on their respective syllabi not to cite Wikipedia as a source). However, citations used in Wikipedia articles can be used. If anything, they're better than citing some crackpot website. I guess I could go to WikiLeaks, if you like...

The sad thing is that there's plenty of distrust aimed at the Fourth Estate. It has become increasingly difficult to separate facts from narratives and fake news. (Yes, I did say that, but not in reference to the President.) But even worse is seeing all of the putrid rubbish on social media that tries to pass itself of as completely factual (but is actually false and intentionally inflammatory). A simple Wikipedia and Snopes search can go a long way to quash these prevarications - as long as we take the time to look it up. To borrow a Scriptural quote, it pays to be Bereans.

No kidding! I can understand etiennep99's zeal. I've been there. I hope he understands that he needs time to grow and learn. Tact doesn't appear to be a strong suit for him. NS and I may disagree over the Islam question. However, we treat each other with respect as much as we can. He and I (and the rest of us) are fellow imagebearers since we were all made in the image of God. Being taught that essential piece of truth went a very long way in how I do my best to relate to others. As for not being Mr. Popular, I used to worry about that. Not anymore. I am not looking to be popular. I'd rather stand by my convictions and yet treat others with respect - and they know this. Trust me: they are watching. They made that clear in their responses to you.

You would have said the same thing to me several years ago. I know where etiennep99 is coming from. I've been there.

Sorry, but I disagree. He gave us human responsibility. If there is any "freewill", it is done according to whether we are saved or not. Ligonier Ministries has some excellent resources on the freewill question.

Honest question: how long have you believed the Gospel?

That depends on which scholars we consult. Textual criticism is very much, shall we say, inside hockey. The James White/Bart Ehrman debate from several years ago made this very clear about different schools of thought on the matter.

To the best of my knowledge, I'm glad this thread didn't exist before I was suspended and given a warning point. I've had the time I needed to get help, do some growing, and take some time to listen to the other side while still maintaining my core convictions and principles.

I feel like things are getting out of hand here. I'm not saying that certain complaints merit labeling some people as malcontents. But there needs to be an open mind to something else. Some people with deep pockets may actually be doing things behind the scenes and eschewing attention. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if these guys are giving a helping hand.

If you've read Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse, you might understand.