Curt

Fair enough. I was just giving something of an alternative that sidesteps the issue of “what is a prospect?”. It can also be a fun exercise.

I see what you mean. Yes, Regier had a long term plan, but it was not well executed towards the end and was especially sunk by poor drafting. Also, I think completely tanking is part of a long term plan, but a poor one. Yes, Murray had a plan, but I never saw a long term plan there. Seems like he just went after the biggest fish available and thought everything else would just work itself out. It did not. I like the Botterill style plan much better. Regier was somewhat similar. As with any plan, it needs to be well executed. That’s where we are now. Unfortunately this plan requires patience from a fan base that has little left. I can understand your concern about whether or not this is all going to work out, but you can screw up an aggressive plan (Murray) just as easily as you can screw up a conservative one (Regier). I would say the one bright spot is that even if Botterill ends up not really getting it done, the organization should still be left with a deep pool of assets because I feel pretty confident that he isn’t going to fritter them away. So, I think the team is on the right path, but there is no guarantee that the execution of the plan doesn’t get screwed up somehow. I guess I share your concern about that.

Not really, because I don’t think they should go after much in the way of UFA’s or even trade for high priced veterans who mostly have those NTC’s. Just so we are clear, we are talking about taking the steps necessary to build a sustainably good team, even if it takes a few years. As opposed to using up a good portion of the organizational depth to bring in 3-4 good players and do everything reasonably possible to try to make the playoffs immediately. What I want and expect to see is a continued slow building of organizational depth with the occasional trade to acquire a young NHL player that fits what management wants. I would expect very little in the way of significant UFA signings.

Its not troubling for me. I think its about time that the organization acted like it had an actual long term plan. I'm fine with not changing course on a long term plan due to the results of a handful of games. I support bringing in a couple middle-6 forwards, because I think that's what they need to be a playoff team, but it has to be done in a way that won't hinder the team long term and it has to be someone who fits what the organization wants long term. If that opportunity isn't there, I'm fine with the patient approach. I don't believe that Botterill should concern himself with quelling the masses. He should ignore the masses completely.

Next year 2019-20? or 2020-21? If they want to give him a few NHL games in 19-20 just to see the speed and what he needs to work on, fine, but I don't want to see him in the NHL full time until 2020-21. He has things that he needs to work on. I don't want him to be overwhelmed. If the Sabres were a good, structured team, and they wanted to just slot in on the 3rd line with two other good 3rd liners and play them limited, non-harsh minutes, then that might be ok, but that is not going to be the situation next season.

How about when making a list, we don't call it a prospect list and just call it an Under-25 List, or Under-24 List. I think that gives a better idea of the young talent a team possesses without getting into the mostly irrelevant, semantical argument about who is or isn't a "prospect".

RIP Mark Pysyk seriously though, yes, he is a good skater, a good passer, and all around pretty smart decision maker.

I know someone named Dilon. I call him Die-lon. His parents should have spelled better.

Yeah, by narrative I meant the thinking that “Botterill hates the CHL” or “I’ll believe it when I see it” with regards to the idea that he would even consider drafting a CHL player. I agree with you that it weighs heavily into decision making probably after round one. My own opinion is that it probably applies to any player who Botterill is not extremely confident will be NHL ready in 2 years or less.

If you wanted to use the selection of Johnson as an opportunity to complain about the OReilly trade, I’ve no interest in participating in that.

Man, that Marleau trade and to an extent the Subban Trade are why I always push that the team needs to weaponize cap space. And why I shake my head when people respond that they don’t want any other teams overplayed castoffs. Carolina just helped themselves a lot.

I didn’t use the word flashy. That’s not really what I’m talking about. I’m talking about high quality passes that set up teammates for prime scoring chances. I don’t see that much of it. That’s why I question whether he can continue to be a good playmaker at the NHL level. That’s why I was posing the question “how is he getting these assists?” “Why type of plays are they coming from?” “Is it projectable to the NHL level?” It’s an open question for me. I think it’s something he needs to work on if he is going to be a #1C or very good #2C quality player. I don’t care if he isn’t flashy. He doesn’t need to be flashy, just efficient.

Yes, I think this is important. There is literally no one in the Sabres organization, NHL or prospect, like Cozens.

That’s actually a halfway decent comparison, even though it was meant as an insult. Also a late 1st round pick. I would say that Johnson is a better skater (almost elite really) and a better stick handler, but not as good of a passer compared to Pysyk.

So, Ryan Johnson! He is a really good skater, he is good at defending zone entries and he is good at skating the puck out of the defensive zone. If you want to learn more about Ryan Johnson, watch this in depth breakdown of him via YouTube Scouching Report. https://youtu.be/vEl38L9gVfQ

Maybe extreme. The thing is that his offensive skills are so good, like top-5 or 10 in the draft, that for him to fall so far, there have to be some other things that are so incredibly bad that it leads teams to believe that the likelyhood of him coming around is very small. Because if a few parts of his game that I mentioned come around a little bit, like just putting a bare minimum effort into defense, the payoff for the team could be massive. So they must almost universally really hate some stuff about him.

Replying to your comment about Kaliyev possibly falling for a reason, from the 2019 Draft thread, before Liger rage closed it. I agree, and I do understand (at least in part) why he fell. He plays a “lazy” game. Doesn’t play defense. Doesn’t look very interested in doing much outside of the offensive zone. Only really looks into the game when his team has the puck. I am just shocked that he fell so far. I take it that NHL teams do not believe that Kaliyev can be coached into playing a more complete game, not even to the minimum required level to be a good NHL player.

Thanks. I’m not surprised they didn’t take him. For a team trying to build an identity and culture, he probably isn’t the guy. However, I am shocked that no team took him in round 1.

Ryan Johnson is fine, but man oh man....so much forward talent sitting there.

Kaliyev or Brink....Kaliyev or Brink....Kaliyev or Brink....Kaliyev or Brink....

Kaliyev or Brink, please for the love of hockey!

Yes, Foote to TB. They have two feet!!!

Shocked why? For me, I would have concerns about adding him to a “young, unestablished” team.

I honestly can’t believe Kaliyev is falling this far. He produced like a top-5 pick. i didn’t rank him top 5 and he has some issues, but........

Never mind. Lol