StuckinFL

Not at all, I continually state over and over that he is a 30g scorer and should be paid like one, not a 40+g player on his own. As far as Jack's contract, he's younger and hasn't scratched the surface of his prime years yet. And I think his contract is going to look like highway robbery in a few years. I think you and I are in agreement on everything other than what other GMs will offer him and that he'd be willing to go to. So why are we disagreeing? I think he can get about 9 per but not with max term, so thats the wiggle room. I think Buffalo is the greenest pasture for him as far as term, $, linemates, and projected competitivness. I think the market won't be insane and he can be had for less than 8 for max term.

Yes, I don't think he will ever scratch the possibility of a 50g season without a superstar like Eichel feeding him. A 50g season and a 37g season are 2 totally different beasts. One is impressive, the other is top of the league. And a player that can score 50g with an average center I would feel paying 9 for 8 would be a n absolute bargain. A player that's hit 28, 37, and 24 (ES: 24, 30, and 20 respectively) in his past 3 seasons is not a 50g talent by himself. So don't pay him like he is one. Pay him like a 30-35 goal talent. And that is between 7 and 8 depending on term, how much the player wants to go there, and how good of a negotiator the GM is. You can't say that Eichel is contributing to his success and then say that Eichel's assistance shouldn't be factored in to projecting what to pay him. That just makes no sense to me. I mean, even if he hits 50g this year, that's an average of 34 goals over 4 seasons. Offer the man that kind of deal.

But that's exactly the point. What other GMs will pay him sets the table. If no one else in the league is going to drive his contract up to 9m then why would we pay him that? Just cause it's a nice thing to do? You figure out what the market outside of Buffalo will be and then negotiate accordingly. And I don't see any GM in the entire league looking at Skinner, even if he scores 50g this season, offering him 9+ for 8. If he was being centered by a league average center I could see that happening. But that's not what's happening and alot, not all but alot, of his current success is due to being on Eichel's wing. GMs employ pro scouts for a reason and I can't see anyone watching Skinner this year thinking he's going to be a 40g player without a superstar center for another 8 years. If someone out there is that naive, let them have him and try to trade him to them this year so you can get something back.

I'm not saying ANY winger. Kane proved that point. But I believe playing with Jack will net a player about 10 goals a season just by nature of how amazing his vision, speed, and skills are. I wouldn't be insanely surprised if Skinner hits 45g this year. But do I think that's because he's a 45g talent? Not by a long shot. His past 3 years hes netted 28, 37, and 24 (ES at 24g, 30g, and 20g respectively). Paying him as a 30g talent for 7 or 8 is MORE than fair. I'm not saying that he's not a great talent because he is. But he is a replaceable talent. We have the most important piece of talent in that duo locked up in a contract that will look like highway robbery in a few years. Lets say you're a GM from Pittsburgh. You've seen the massive success your team has had over the past decade and you're looking to build a basement team up into a SC champion. Do you load up a top line or do you have multiple lines with massive talent that year in and year out teams struggle against? Do you overpay for a top line winger due to one season of great chemistry he has with your world class talent 1C, or do you methodically build up your team with multiple lines that are threat and a world class defense that can join the attack? And lets say you're an outside GM that's scouting Buffalo for Skinner. Do you think he's this player without Jack and pay him accordingly? Or do you think he's a 30g talent by himself? And how many people thought that Kane was overpaid at 7 for 7? (and almost all his goals are at ES and he can have that production with anyone centering him because he never met a shot he didn't like.) If he signs in Buffalo I think alot of you are gonna be doing backflips for what JBot signs him for. If he signs somewhere else and a GM has lost their mind and overpays, good for him and I'd wish him the best with no hard feelings. Jack is the deciding factor in that equation, and I look forward to him making another 30g talent look even better for a lesser price.

If nothing else, beating the leafs in a playoff series would be magical. I think that might be even sweeter than winning the SC.

My point exactly. I just don't see the offers coming in for 9 for 8 or anything ridiculous like that. The most ridiculous offers for Skinner will be at the trade deadline as a 1yr rental (which even if the offers are there I don't see us taking them. ST holders would riot as there's no one ready to take up that production YET) and hovering at 8 or slightly above. But I don't see a full 7 or 8 for that $. Skinner is amazing, but he's the first great winger Jack has played with. For crying out loud last year there were those of us clamoring for Girgs to be on Jack's wing for production. Skinner's numbers are more of a testament to how far Jack can lift up another player not named Kane. There's no way you overpay a winger based on the talent of his center unless you're Tim Murray. And we saw how that strategy worked with Moulson and Okposo.

The Albatross was a good luck sign until someone killed it which brings on the curse.

In total over term yes. I don't see any teams offering him 8 or more for 7/8. Only for 6 or less. There's alot of bad anchor deals out there for too much term that have blown up and I see a course correction occurring (Evander Kane excluding) over the past few years in comparison to the past as the cap ceiling didn't increase the way most GMs had anticipated over the past half decade. Wether or not Skinner takes the deal remains to be seen. But Skinner is definitely a luxury, not a necessity on this team. Jack can elevate another winger to almost his level for a fraction of the price. I just don't see any teams around the league that NEED a winger like him, have a center that can elevate him to that level and that have an opening on their first line, have the price and term available, are poised to be contenders and not rebuilding or declining before he starts to decline, and have a GM that is willing to gamble that he's this player and not a 30g player that's having his career year this season. I can see a team attempting to overpay to get him for a cup run this year, but not the other scenario. I think that we've been so bad for so long that instead of looking at what Skinner is worth to the rest of the NHL, we're instead focused on what we would pay him to keep him and keep this warm glow alive for as long as possible. And we would pay far more to keep him than most teams would pay to acquire him. We would be the highest bidder, which means JBot is negotiating from a very strong position.

But I think you're overestimating where teams that could afford that are going to be over the next 4/5 years. This is a team on its way to ascendance. A future SC contender and he's on the top line. So that will be taken into consideration. Also, I don't think Skinner will be offered that. Not every GM is a gambling man with deep pockets and cap space. The fact is that there is evidence not only in previous years, but in this year as well when he was off Jack's line, that away from Jack that Skinner is not going to reach this level again. We're adding cash over an 8 year contract span that comes to anywhere of a 12 to 16 million dollar gamble that he will be this player for years to come with any decent center. I think his most ludicrous offer might be 8 for 6 or 7 years but not necessarily on a team you wanna play for. With the league getting younger and faster I see term being way more valuable than in the past decade and until the cap numbers come in after Seattle, I don't expect GMs to play with that kind of money yet in case it doesn't go up quite as high as they believe. Skinner knew coming here meant that in his contract year he'd have the opportunity to put up career numbers with Jack as his center and it would drive up his value. I don't think he knew how high that ceiling was. And with Jack as his center and no real competition for his job at the moment, he can be a star on a team that is going to be something truly special in 2 years (hopefully). That's why I think he'll consider taking a 3.5 to 4 million discount to stay here.

I'm not entirely sure that Skinner was ever seriously considered long term here until recently. I think that JBot considered him a pure rental to keep the ship a bit more entertaining while the kids develop as a unit to keep season ticket holders happy. The borderline riot the ST holders threw after last year meant something had to be done. That being said I think there is consideration to keep him at a discounted price now. But the fact of the matter is that Skinner can't do what he's doing this year without Jack. And you're already paying Jack for his ability to lift the play up of those around him. No need to pay for it twice over. I think he'll be offered 7.5 for 7 or 7 for 8. Because it's a hell of alot easier to develop or bring in a winger that Jack can lift up to this level than it is to find a Center that can lift Skinner up to this level. I just can't see JBot thinking it a good strategy to pay a premium price to keep his top line heavy on both forwards and defense (because we all know Dahlin is gonna get PAID when his contract comes up) and allowing his middle 6 to be mediocre. We're seeing the limitations of that now and we will never pass the ceiling we are currently at with that strategy. I know we're all excited that we are winning games, but this team is not a SC winning team. Not yet by a long shot. Basically, what would you pay Skinner if he had to stay on the 2nd line away from Jack. Because that's his worth. Playing with Jack is his bonus and you shouldn't pay him for Jack's talent. Jack already is getting paid for that.

This is total speculation but that immediately reads drugs to me. Either an addiction to painkillers that's spiraling out or something like that. Medical Staff wouldn't report something as a medical issue if it didn't seem.that way at first (which makes me think it was covered up by a nagging injury), and it being taken out of the hands of the coach shows that it's a serious problem. Kinda like HR stepping in to make sure the immediate supervisor isn't liable. In my life I've seen it time and time again that if someone's performance starts slipping, they have sudden illnesses and stop coming to work, it's drugs.

Thank God I don't have to see that anymore.

Ugh, and we looked like we were toying with them most of the OT.

Hey, just because he did doesn't mean that there's not room for improvement. I WANT MORE!

How many times a game is Larry in a perfect position to score and shoots it wide?

*****

4th in the standings league wide. This is insane.

JACK!!!!!!!!

I think Larry is hesitating. Maybe in his own head?

CASEY!!!!!!!

Really struggling with entering the zone the past few shifts.

I love it when Dahlin plays with a chip on his shoulder.

I dunno, Girgs with that mustache is insanely punchable

Did any of us think starting out the season that we would ever sit at #5 it the league standings? I mean, WOW!

Couldn't have said it better myself.