Thorny

There seems to be a noted, more extreme shift in narrative in the last few years of Adams tenure, though, no? So either it’s gotten worse, or they are relying on it as a purported excuse more

I’m probably a little biased in Ehlers favour. I’ve seen him play a lot live and he’s pretty darn dangerous. He’s fast, would probably be our fastest player. He was a diver, and I hated that about him, but I think that’s a Maurice taught trait Same draft as Reinhart, I still think he has as much growth potential as Reinhart had and showed I will not be the guy complaining about an overpay if we trade for him

I think your last sentence is where the argument loses me. The sticking point is Isak Rosen? Presumably you think the addition bumps up our playoff chances in a meaningful way, and Rosen is a potential tipping point? We can draft a new Rosen next year, honestly It’s a non-issue And we are rolling it back more less as of right now, too Yes, I understand we tweaked on the fringes, all teams do And I’m not including coach. I’m talking roster. I know Lindy might be the “big addition”

F*ck Chicago. Evergreen. Just have to make the playoffs.

Don’t really see Zucker in the top 6. Even the franchise said it I believe when we got him, I think they mentioned bottom 6 specifically. I’d bet Benson gets first shot, but who knows Peterka - Thompson - Tuch Benson - Cozens - Quinn Zucker - X - Greenway Malenstyn - Lafferty - Aube-Kubel …lines 1 and 4 look pretty set to me. Middle 6 is where we need work. And from the outside, too. That missing X, at least, to allow for a “get the puck to the net” 3rd line that’s difficult to play against If Benson sophomore slumps maybe we get Zucker - Cozens - Quinn Benson - X - Greenway ..in the middle 6. Rendering the “X” addition even more important

All of those options are significantly better than what we got if the “players won’t come here” narrative is as true as people say. That’s my point. Options 1 and 2 are absolutely fine and again, the (small!) risk of him being LTIR’d forever and Pegula’s yacht being affected and us losing Tuch was easily easily worth the risk considering the *much more likely* perception hit we demonstrably took This fallout was always likely and predictable. It wasn’t really like the surgery would break him. And again, that’s STILL a way easier result to deal with that being blackballed the Eichel situation wasn’t favourable for us. We don’t need to litigate it again. We did not manage it well: that much history has already recorded

Really? After all this time.. Tim’s son

You are using a hindsight argument. Fair or not, doesn’t make sense to say “nothing we could of done”. Had we let him get the surgery, we’d have no bad buzz, and he would have been fine Having to LTIR him was the worst case scenario even IN hindsight and returns so far suggest that’s a significantly lesser evil between that and the damage it seems to have done to our rep to proceed as we did The logic of Adams’ position that he made the decision with was sort of proved irrelevant: none of it mattered if the league was going to perceive we mistreated him and that’s absolutely what happened. We tanked for the guy, failed to build around him, told him we wanted to do a long form rebuild when he was entering his prime, so he asked for a trade, and then denied that franchise player his preferred surgery, and that was the decision of a first time, harbourcenter promoted GM, who hasn’t made the playoffs and averages 76 points a season I mean, it’s not GREAT optics

How they dealt with Jack definitely affects perception. Hopefully they accounted for the perception fallout league wide Damn, good one

No, my feelings remain the same: was always contingent on who we added at C. We are much weaker at F right now than before the Byram trade. Specifically C. Adams can penny pinch on a top 6 wing cause it’s more important to have two prospects who may or may not help and who may do so in 4 years, well after he’s fired, and we’ve decided the lesser of two evils is missing the playoffs again to a much greater certainty - but we need a 3C To keep playoffs at least reasonably possible

Oh ok None of the above

Be careful or the Man will Die

Can I borrow your timeshare? I know you aren’t using the guesthouse

So what the heck happened after you retired?

He’s talking the minor leagues (pro) not minor hockey

I can only assume it doesn’t involve reading comprehension of any kind

No, the biggest thing was the “other component to the Byram trade”. come on now. We all said it. “This move looks good depending on how we address the Mittelstadt vacancy.” Sabres were better at home last year than on the road

I agree, but we aren’t talking about how we got em, we are talking about a lack of. I take your point that at times the top 6 has appeared to be filled adequately and even times it was filled adequately, but there’s also assuredly times there’s been a critical vacancy and we, again, are talking extremes with the sabres because the answer to how many is: Adams has gone O-fer. We don’t even know if it’s solved, yet. it’s sort of just a “I’m a good Sabres fan” rule that we pencil in Quinn and Benson for true top 6 seasons, of production and availability I can make a much better argument for paying it playoffs. - - - would you do it for 2 significant assets? Savoie and next years 1st?

I’ve never gotten this complaint with VO. One dimensional, as in purely offensive? Ok. But he’s not just a “sniper guy”, and usually one dimensional is more often used to describe players like like. Dude can pass. He’s got more career assists than goals - - - Up until last season he had 4 seasons as a pro in the nhl and *4 seasons* of good production. That’s actually uncommon. I’d be highly inclined to think this most recent season, under Donny meatballs, where coincidentally our whole offence imploded, is the outlier and the exception to the VO rule

Ya Black Sunday was sort of a special case. I guess because it was inverted, we actually had a great team (best I’ve seen), and of course watching it fall apart so quickly was very painful. But like I said, special case. None of these last few days are in the running. Was that why the thread resurfaced? The offseason is generally a fun time, imo. Even with lack of significant action there’s a lot of good discussion

Nah he’s an NHLer and pretty good one. I could see a good team penciling him for 3rd line next year instead of top 6, definitely

You think I understand the charts? - - - There’s a big part there that’s defensive. But yes a lot of it is offensive. But it’s all in the red, and pretty significantly I haven’t heard that he actually had relative matchup difficulty just defensive deployment difficulty. Is there data on the matchups difficulty? You don’t have to post it I’ll take your word for it

Agree. It’s not a very likely time for things to happen by that point but certainly not unheard of

I haven’t been willing to pencil in any of benson Quinn or Peterka to the top 6 until this year, *it’s year 5*. 3 of the first 4 years of the Adams drought, 75% of it, Quinn and JJ were either not in the nhl at all, or rookies. And good teams have “top 6” quality players sometimes on the third line. I’ve even seen the Sabres do it. it’s not a red herring, it’s a fact