Thorny

That may get him into trouble though I don’t know Rochester’s laws on that that

You’ll have to keep on wondering until you break me, physically. The other side ain’t happening

^

I’d rather have Jeff Skinner, absolutely KO and Girgs are good 4th liners. Them vs any of the 2 newbies is a toss up to me more less and yes, I wouldn’t play VO on line 4 but I’m the guy defending him on this site: he was good every season before last. His first 4 in the nhl he was good. He’s actually got a solid track record and definitely has a place on a competently built team He doesn’t make as good of a 4th liner (that’s why, if you see, I made a reference to “fit” in my post) but as a base asset yes I believe there’s more to be gotten out of Olofsson than Sam freaking Lafferty. His metrics were terrible. Honestly an “=“ there was generous. Yes, I get new guy = good guy buy shiny new toy syndrome ususlly wears off. They all have flaws

There are quite a few “another Benson situation developing” rumours out there right now…anyone else get the feeling we are slowly, likes lobsters in increasingly hot water, being messaging-slow-played, almost Inception-like, to the idea Helenius just *needs* be our 3C this season? “Who is out there that can guarantee you better results?”

Finally; a workable template I appreciate it and your conclusion is reasonable I do entirely disagree: Mittelstadt > Quinn Skinner > Zucker Girgensons = Malenstyn Okpsoso = Lafferty Olofsson = Aube-Kubel …I think there’s a solid argument to be made there enough “=“ there that style and deployment and fit could be a big factor so I’m not ruling out the group, in a all-avenues-considered sense, coming close to last year’s group. We’d need a huge year from Quinn though and a bounce back from Zucker Maybe the improved GT if we get it bridges the gap to the playoffs? I’ve already gone on record saying I think we have a “squint and you can see playoffs” roster - I’m not ruling out we make it with this But that’s a neither-here-nor-there position to me. The idea wasn’t to equal last year’s roster on paper and role the dice. Missing 13/4 years means nothing? The idea was to reinforce our chances by making moves tantamount to someone serious about year 14 being *UNACCEPTABLE*. you are configuring at roster where it’s merely potentially possible but leaning unlikely, if we make no other adds

Yes, it’s semantics. Because “top 6” being “better” only matters if it’s your actual best 6 forwards. Pretending Casey wasn’t in actuality part of our “top 6” doesn’t make any sense. It simply changes when the team falls behind in overall composition until one line further down in the post lol

My gosh. Greenway was on the roster to start last season, no? Just name the 12 guys, and guys who are on both teams get matched with eachother. I’ve already explained why with the JJP example

Agree, but if the price is comparable to any similar asset and what they moved for in the past, im paying it It would have to be a historic ask for me to decline So I don’t see much argumentative standing there. Is Chevy asking for more assets than a player of Ehlers ilk has ever gotten? If not, I’m paying it

You have to lay the first brick we continually try to lay a pie in the sky foundation

If Skinner was “replaced” by a guy we already had, then we need to consider who replaced JJP on the third line. It was, in your semantics, significantly downgraded to Skinner. So you can’t just say you replace skinner with Malenstyn reasonably so A-ok. Do you see the semantics yet? You are *actually* needing to replace what JJP was providing in a third line role. Which Beck doesn’t do The only way that makes sense is bodies in, bodies out

Even I can’t deal in this level of semantics. Every forward spot is improved ok? lol Your definitions are *arbitrary*. I don’t care if Mittelstadt was “top 6” in your comp or not. That is ardent semantics. He was one of our best 6 forwards

It could not be worse The “decline to protect the future” strategy has not worked and will not work Decline and be bad or accept and maybe be bad You operate based on a fear of the looming headline, admit it. You’ve basically admitted as much before. The word DROUGHT is printed on our foreheads until we make the playoffs. There’s no avoiding the headline. We are a headline

Who envisioned retaining Granato for 3.5 seasons?

Greenway is here in both cases You can put Malenstyn with whoever. Skinner has to be with someone new, though

At some point people will realize we keep declining trades to protect a future that doesn’t arrive specifically because we are implementing that process. How is that not a fruitless pursuit? The scenario we fear where we overpay and it screws us and we are left with an anchor and our team is absolutely terrible is *not worse* than what we’ve already seen lol. Where we already are. We ensure there is no future by refusing to pay what’s necessary to compete in the now.

lol oy-vey No one is coming to buffalo. If you can attain a top 6 asset by trade, you have to do it. No matter the futures cost

Frankly I don’t think anything you said here addresses anything I said - - - Desperation isn’t a “look” or a “strategy”. It’s our current actual state We *are* desperate. We *have* great need. It’s operating and pretending as if we DON’T that presents the contradiction I am saying they should pay the price required to get Ehlers right now. Saying “at all costs” is just reductio ad absurdum. There’s a line we can hit here where they move the player to us and it’s not going to be 11 first round pick level assets If not him, pick someone else akin. Better be damn confident that other guy shakes lose, though. The result can’t just be “no one” ”who even was there” isn’t a viable defence - - - And record, sure, I’d sell this team’s prospect soul to make the playoffs. Yes, at all costs. I understand I care about making the playoffs more than you. I understand I care more about it than Kevyn Adams. That’s been indisputably obvious for a long time. I’ve always been very clear on this stance: my goal is the playoffs. I don’t give two sh*ts about “building a cup contender”. I’ve never bought that narrative, I never will, and it’s snake oil by definition

That’s mostly semantics. Mittelstadt was our best F in actuality we switched out Mittelstadt and Skinner. Benson exists on both teams. Quinn (because he was hurt) for Olofsson is some potential for better, yes. But in terms of what your best forwards look like it’s: Thompson >>>>>>> Thompson Cozens >>>>>>>> Cozens Tuch >>>>>>>Tuch Peterka >>>>>>> Peterka Benson >>>>>>>> Benson Mittelstadt >>>>>> Zucker? Olofsson >>>>>>> Quinn Skinner >>>>>>>> Malenstyn? Mittelstadt to Zucker is a clear downgrade and Quinn instead of Olofsson should be a clear upgrade. Skinner to Malenstyn is a downgrade. Perhaps with fit improvement some would argue Skinner/Beck a wash, in which case, even then, we are merely counting on injury luck to get us back to only ~ even at F when we *already needed improvement* OUT: Mittelstadt, Skinner, VO IN: Zucker, Malenstyn, Quinn

I don’t really think the scarcity of a take is necessarily a commentary on its validity and therefore easily cast aside I’ve been on an island a bunch and I can’t say it’s always lead to me being mistaken

Can’t say I agree. It’s more less the Ullmark situation then and wantonly casts away the variable of time and how things change. It’s playing much too fast and loose when the overpay is the significant lesser of two evils. The point isn’t to have an offer “as good as anyone else”. Or a fair offer. The point is to *get the player*. does what you are saying not sound to you like exactly what Adams would say? Actually asking. It’s the type of thinking that allows you to come away with “I played my cards properly relative to the market” rather than “I played my cards properly in terms of securing a player” This is just more of the same. You aren’t REALLY prioritizing the asset.. the playoffs. You are still trying to see if you can have your cake and eat it too You are prioritizing getting him at the price you deem fair. How often had this worked for Adams?

I don’t really get the “I’m 100 percent confident we make it this year” or the “we absolutely won’t be better” statements. there’s a wide spectrum of potential results. Missing the playoffs is so frustrating because we all know it doesn’t take much to randomly go off one year to the tune of making it. The Caps didn’t so much “go off” as implode slowly and THAT was enough. We obviously COULD make it, and it would also absolutely not be surprising if we didn’t, considering past precedent. I struggle to see why there’d be confidence, other than a gut feeling, in predicting either to a certainty At least with the type of slow play offseason we’ve seen again so far

Speaking of Ehlers, I wonder if the reason the Jets and Sabres seem, at least anecdotally to me, to link up for trades so often is because we are both dealing from a position of similar weakness re: attractive destination. After all, Winnipeg is always listed as even more undesired than Buffalo according to the league’s players. We are sort of kin in that sense While having these conversations, we should consider picking their management’s brains re: how they managed to field a playoff team 7 times since they returned in 2011, with hardly anyone but their homegrowns willing to sign, and even then sometimes not (Dustin Byfuglien, etc etc) Chevy has been pretty creative overall

There’s just no viable excuse for not bringing in a competent 3C. Because we traded a good C we had when we didn’t have to. It doesn’t matter if there’s literally no one available: we shouldn’t have made the trade, then

Rossi would be an exceptional add