Thorny

Better offensive numbers, slightly: but even here, Tage’s current per-game pace doesn’t scratch the surface of the marks Jack put up in per-game numbers at this point in a couple of his Sabres seasons. During the year he finished top 10 in mvp voting, Jack was pacing for 130 I believe at one point. Will have to see how Tage ends up Like I say, playing the pace game is dangerous. But, from a straight up, purely offensive production standpoint this season, it’s pretty close, with Tage so far actually being ahead, to your point - - - Basically, while you and GA are acknowledging the 2-way game thing, it’s not just something that is mentioned then quickly bypassed, because we want to, in favour of the guy who’s a Sabre just b/c he’s a year younger: it’s a substantial consideration and it’s why, until further notice, it’s Eichel being listed by all the analysts and “early voting” as in the top 10 for both Hart AND *Selke* right now, and not yet Tage. It’s not *me* ranking JE above him on these lists, either, obviously. Tage can round that out, not saying he can’t, but, assuming they stay pretty equal offensively, until he does that Eichel is the better overall player. I suppose Tage could blow by him offensively to make up the gap, too, but I dunno how likely that is

Yes I definitely would. 1 year of age gap doesn’t make a difference, and the contract doesn’t offset how much better Jack is two-way right now. I also don’t think Tage matches Jack’s point total this year, when all is said and done. Of course, this is all disregarding team fit and just looking at things in a vacuum. I don’t really agree with the idea of placing very much weight on contract when determining value, re: straight up player comparisons. There’s a reason contracts don’t factor into the Hart trophy voting: ie most VALUABLE player. It’s never weighted vs contract - salary is a team issue and players getting paid more don’t need to do more to earn an MVP than a player earning less: that wouldn’t make sense. Scheifele at 6 mil would have been in the mvp consideration for years if that was the case Still, Tage is still seemingly improving (though, apparently Jack is, too) so that book isn’t closed. This can be revisited. The fact it can even be discussed is pretty cool on it’s own.

The guy who berated the team and every member of this board on his way out lol

Think about it. Think again. What do you think? Just think!

@bob_sauve28 sounds like you are basically saying we have 7 guys who can succeed in that top 6, not that inserting VO necessarily avoids somewhat of a potential drop-off, but the key point being that whichever of the 7, in this case VO, isn’t in the top 6 will be left to twist in the wind shackled to someone like Mittelstadt and his black hole third line Correct me if I’m wrong

Agree. Mid 80s is a fine result

I think most teams 4th lines, really, are populated by dudes that can’t crack higher ground: so I suppose I disagree they can’t be construed as solid role players. Asplund/Jost/Girgensons/Okposo I’d argue do fit that criteria Ya, I like VO and do think he’d look better there

I always see a little bit of Keanu in Doan, ymmv - - - Imo, I was on record saying the bare minimum result that could be even *argued* to be a successful result is 82 points (and that was being nice) and the surpassing of the 15-16 total of 7 years ago, a total that Murray never surpassed, that, as a high-water mark, got him fired. It’s a .500 club. It’s not hard to do and this is the GM’s 3rd season, and it’s the second in the “new plan”, where we had 76 last year. I can’t see how failing to even improve by ~3 wins, when we are supposed to be seeing progress, could be deemed an acceptable result, especially considering it would be quite disingenuous to discount the fact people were, almost to a man, touting the finish and supposedly valuable sample size to end last season where they played WELL beyond an 82 point pace, as something that could/should carry over, at least somewhat. A 76 point finish, followed by, say, a 79 point finish, is more less treading water re:results and I think it’s ok to expect more progress than that. No, this isn’t the same as saying it would be indicative of a failed build and a need for KA to get canned

Now, the legend Shane Doan

I’ll take a team that banks as many points as the amount of times you change your avatar Disclaimer *sarcasm*

Thanks for the embed. Though, I’ll argue w/ whoever wrote that tweet that Quinn actually created his own space through the vision he has to see the play at speed, and dish that pass as quick as he did. It looks like barely anything but even just a second or two at this level, when splitting hair between players who are ALL talented, can make all the difference.

Can’t find a YouTube link to embed but this is that goal https://www.nhl.com/video/quinn-scores-goal/t-335522622/c-13976599

I’ve been one of VO’s biggest boosters on this board but even I wouldn’t mess with that line / swap in VO. Quinn is doing a lot to create space for his linemates. I pointed it out in the GDT yesterday but it didn’t get any traction, but if anyone goes and watches the highlight of Quinn’s goal yesterday: the most impressive thing could be the pass he makes, to JJ, leading him, before JJ is even looking. That’s... eye opening talent and space creation

But they haven’t gone cold, yet. Tage, obviously, hasn’t either. I guess I just question you logic that you could alter one of those variables without the other being significantly affected. Don’t see why their totals will drop off SEVERELY if Tage’s don’t, and if they do drop off, I think we’ll see that statistically reflected in Tage’s output. Unless they get moved off the line, ya. Just haven’t seen that much

But Quinn isn’t even just there to develop. Quinn is helping us do the things required to win, NOW. The kid line isn’t good for a kid line: they are just plain good.

What do you think TT gets to? Considering Tuch and Skinner are glued to his hip, it would be difficult for neither to reach 60 if Thompson is banking 80+. I don’t even think Tuch has been very good and he’s point a game right now.

It was truly just, “4 guys pacing for 80?! I’ll take a TEAM that can pace for 80, thank you very much. Amirite folks? Folks?” Nothing more.

I knew I would get this response. It was a joke. About how the team is pacing poorly while individual players are not. I used 80 because *that is the number in the thread title* Yes, we need more than 80. No, 71 point pace is not good either. There is no way to spin a sub .500 team that doesn’t even match the 15-16 total as anything other than a disappointing season overall for the rebuild. That’s not to say there wouldn’t be several noteworthy positives. Or that the build has failed. But the result in totality would be sub-par. It wouldn’t be the type of progress we’d want to see at this stage. To a man, not a solitary soul around here was saying a finish in the 70s would be “acceptable”. No need for anyone to go revisionist (not saying you).

Maybe this fits better here. Does anyone know how often we’ve run out 2 of Casey/VO/Asplund in combination with Hinostroza on the right? Didn’t Hinostroza have successful metrics last season? They may have already tried this, if so someone can point that out and debunk this post. But I feel like we haven’t seen that much, just off the top of my head. Asplund is good defensively, I’d line him up at C, Hinostroza on the right, and Olofsson (he scores actual goals) on the left. Give Mitts a rest and let him switch off with VO depending on who’s contributing Skinner - Thompson - Tuch Peterka - Cozens - Quinn Olofsson - Asplund - Hinostroza Girgensons - Jost - Okposo 2 good lines One reasonable 4th line

I’d trade it all for a team on pace for 80

I know people dislike talking about handedness, if I had to guess it’s probably NOT a factor in this case, but correlation (likely) or causation, it DOES almost always lately seem to be the line with all left shots that can’t find success. Even the 4th line always has handedness balance. I wonder if there’s an outside shot it slightly ups the degree if difficulty re: things like exit pass options, etc Prob not, just thinking about it this afternoon. But it’s line 3 always and it always has all left shots. I’d try Hinostroza there just to rule it out

There is some merit to this - very much front-runners in that we seem to score a lot in games we are already scoring a fair few. Including a lot of EN goals. Still, maybe it’s not *quite* reflective of our offence, but even accounting for all those factors it’s doing very well: we are certainly a good goal-scoring team

This has been discussed ad naseum so I personally don’t feel like doing it again, so I’ll just say that I, and others, have pointed out before that we had several opportunities to sign Ullmark, and to think we had no chance at all when Ullmark literally came to the negotiating table for many months pushes the limits of credibility If you see what amounts to a joke (yes, saying “bump” is a joke) as a circle of nothingness, you could just... not respond to said joke about how poor our GT seemed to be yesterday - check the time stamp on the post As far as I know, I haven’t seen very much Eichel stuff being posted. My contribution was posting a solitary highlight at beginning of the season, after a stream of Eichel crtiticism in the Around the NHL (this) thread, in an effort to get it moved to its own thread so this one wouldn’t get clogged up. It worked, it WAS moved to an appropriate spot and..I haven’t posted an Eichel highlight since. I don’t think anyone has actually. - - - Re: the bold - Forgive me, but I’m going to call this out b/c, 50th time seeing you post something like this is frankly enough, do you ever seek to add value or do you just like to criticize other posts and posters? Actually asking Maybe this can get it out of the way: Zamboni, we *know* you’ve never doubted any Sabres player, even the vast masses that never panned out. You’ve never doubted the GM. You are very high minded and never dwell on moves that have happened beyond your control as a talking point. You are a very positive fan and we could all learn from the zealousness of your support. I only strive to transcend the masses in the way you’ve so elegantly achieved. Please, forgive me the talking points you’ve deemed “uninteresting”.

He will if we force him too. All 82. Kevyn Adams said. He wants players who are dying to be Buffalo Sabres.