Thorny

You just keep doing it, though. There’s no unrealized promise in the first 5 years. During the revelation that was the 19-20 season, we were (almost) to a man thrilled with where he was. His improved D game that year. Way better post game interviews. Top 10 league scorer. Go read the GDTs, I beg of anyone. Man just look at the numbers you posted - the clear change is at “287”. His career trajectory isnt a story of “failed promise” so far like you are painting - his career was on a good trajectory until COVID. *Now* things seem to have plateaued, in a sense. It’s up to him to get back to star level and not just “good player” which, to your point, would be a case of failed promise. But the narrative isn’t written yet. And I wouldn’t say his career is half over necessarily, either. Listing “58, 53, 52, 23, 10” with a bunch of disappointing numbers doesn’t serve the argument. Those numbers aren’t alike. Going from 58 (as an 18 year old rookie on a god awful team that tanked to get him by way of scorched earth roster) to 10, over the ages of *18-22*, looks like DEVELOPMENT to me. Any other player that’s what you’d say. To say otherwise is such a weird skew and now that I’ve pointed it out would be an odd choice of willfully blurring the context

We’ve had this discussion before and you know our positions have been/are aligned. I’ll continually be re-evaluating my position, of course. I think I want to say - for the first stretch of this season, the first quarter or whatever, I didn’t see much reason to shift it. Jack *was* living up to what should be expected of him. He was above point a game, scoring about on level with Tuch/top 20 scorer, and regardless of whether people wanted to acknowledge it, his defensive game was excelling. Those who know more than me had him in not just early MVP running but Selke running. But, his play from all accounts (and that of the team) seems to have dropped off of late, and not for an insignificant stretch. Eichel needs to pick up his game. He’s not good enough right now.

There’s no point saying “for one reason or another 8 years into his career” when we know for a fact he can’t “fully realize” his potential when he was still a young player developing in this league during the first big portion - no reason he shouldn’t be afforded the development ground all players are. He was on track. It would be disingenuous to suggest otherwise when we were viewing it that way up until COVID. He DID have his on-schedule breakthrough in 19-20. To make a stronger point I think we should look at the last 3 years, this is when it started to get off track, starting with the year he only played 18 games

I get what you are saying about “fully realizing” but on a per-year basis he’s actually done that a few times, objectively. He lived up to reasonable expectations year 1, played a full season. 56 points as a rookie is outstanding, I don’t care he was tagged as generational, that’s not on him. His 82 point year certainly, he started it 21 and point a game was even more significant even a few years ago. And the 78 in 68 year you mentioned, of course. In truth, as I’m sure you remember, all the development comps were looking good until..well until COVID. It all changed.

Marcus Johansson was our 2C the year Jack had 78 in 68 before the covid shutdown. Marcus Johansson might be ranked 7th out of 7 on that list once Savoie and Kulich are being counted on as NHL players. Ya, a C we might not have room for might be better than the guy we had in the second most important F position 3 years ago. Botterill’s neglect of the C ice position was nothing short of earth-shatteringly bad GMing a farce

Just wait until an NHL team short comes calling for one of our excess centres, the most important position in hockey. If Savoie and Kulich map out and we are left with Thompson/Cozens/Krebs/Savoie/Kulich/Jost down the middle... talk about working from a position of strength

Ya in a manner of speaking. I try to view trades through the prism of the evaluations at the time of the deal. Not saying necessarily as much where the NHL talent in the deal is concerned, as that’s more plausibly predictable going forward re: a GM being like “see, I knew that would happen!”. But more so for draft picks - if a team trades a 7th round pick and the pick goes on to become a 40 goal scoring Olofsson, just as an example, I don’t think it makes the trade better for the acquiring team in hindsight or worse for the dealing team: the dealing team traded in actuality let’s call it the “general expectations associated with a 7th overall pick”. That is to say, personally I view the deal as still inclusive of the value we generally attribute to a 2nd round pick (Edit: whoops, 1st rounder) in a trade, regardless of what Östlund becomes. But 2 things of relevance: 1 the deal looks pretty darn good already, thank-you-very-much. And, 2 It’s not like Östlund becoming really good wouldn’t still reflect great on the GM and his team: it just reflects well on the drafting side of talent evaluation - - - Maybe the distinctions I draw are all semantics to you and if so, I apologize

..and Rohan will answer!

My second favourite prospect in system after Savoie

Would have also been funny if after saying “since” you sort of just turned and walked off briskly

Good stat pull

Calgary sucks and is now screwed by contracts. Florida will be ok they just need a new coach. See: Jets last season vs this season It’s Paul

No like Dahlin has 55 points and the Sabres have 55 standings points Dahlin technically pacing for 95 as he missed a game, Sabres pacing for 94

Interesting question is who gets more points this year, Dahlin, or the team? Both sit at 55.

WHERE WAS GONDOR WHEN THE EASTROCH FELL?!

Rasmus Dahlin is the best defenseman in the NHL. He’s 22. Power is 20. Will Power be the best defenseman in the NHL in 2 years? Can’t imagine Dahlin’s high mark, at the top, given he’s only 22 and lost 2 years under Krueger, is close to set, either. It’s a fun question to ponder considering “better than the guy who’s already the best and getting better all the time” is far from a necessary expectation. Im all but certain we’ll have the best 1-2 combo in the near future wherever they settle.

There were whispers from the fans sitting around me that they “didn’t even get to test” their old goalie, complete with a ton of grumbling about it. When he gave up the first goal I didn’t get that upset because it didn’t feel like a deserved-shutout being lost for our goalie. Like you said - it was a team defensive effort all night and that’s much more promising than a goalie standing on his head any day of the week

He certainly was

Help us control the line of scrimmage, ya

Oh 100%. And “hope” need not apply, either: there’s no “QB” in hockey but these guys actively “QB” the 5 man unit when out there - because it’s (Soon to be) 2 pillars who occupy, combined, the majority of the 60 mins, (QB doesn’t play 60, either), I’d say between the 2 of them we have tantamount to a Franchise quarterback - we should be “in it” every year barring complete ineptitude / bad luck ^

Aight, I’m home now. This bong rip is for a good effort, a better Sabres team, and the best fans out there, those that frequent this great board. L'Chaim!

Wasn’t tested really. Kudos to the overall team effort. He had a few nice saves but add in the 2 he gave up and then total shots against..he didn’t do anything I wouldn’t have expected of a reasonable NHL goalie. Regardless, psyched to see him get a W against his former team. He was good enough for what he faced and it should be a nice confidence building block for him

Matches my eye test, those 2 were so good . One after the other all game. Power Dahlin