Thorner

Who envisioned retaining Granato for 3.5 seasons?

Greenway is here in both cases You can put Malenstyn with whoever. Skinner has to be with someone new, though

At some point people will realize we keep declining trades to protect a future that doesn’t arrive specifically because we are implementing that process. How is that not a fruitless pursuit? The scenario we fear where we overpay and it screws us and we are left with an anchor and our team is absolutely terrible is *not worse* than what we’ve already seen lol. Where we already are. We ensure there is no future by refusing to pay what’s necessary to compete in the now.

lol oy-vey No one is coming to buffalo. If you can attain a top 6 asset by trade, you have to do it. No matter the futures cost

Frankly I don’t think anything you said here addresses anything I said - - - Desperation isn’t a “look” or a “strategy”. It’s our current actual state We *are* desperate. We *have* great need. It’s operating and pretending as if we DON’T that presents the contradiction I am saying they should pay the price required to get Ehlers right now. Saying “at all costs” is just reductio ad absurdum. There’s a line we can hit here where they move the player to us and it’s not going to be 11 first round pick level assets If not him, pick someone else akin. Better be damn confident that other guy shakes lose, though. The result can’t just be “no one” ”who even was there” isn’t a viable defence - - - And record, sure, I’d sell this team’s prospect soul to make the playoffs. Yes, at all costs. I understand I care about making the playoffs more than you. I understand I care more about it than Kevyn Adams. That’s been indisputably obvious for a long time. I’ve always been very clear on this stance: my goal is the playoffs. I don’t give two sh*ts about “building a cup contender”. I’ve never bought that narrative, I never will, and it’s snake oil by definition

That’s mostly semantics. Mittelstadt was our best F in actuality we switched out Mittelstadt and Skinner. Benson exists on both teams. Quinn (because he was hurt) for Olofsson is some potential for better, yes. But in terms of what your best forwards look like it’s: Thompson >>>>>>> Thompson Cozens >>>>>>>> Cozens Tuch >>>>>>>Tuch Peterka >>>>>>> Peterka Benson >>>>>>>> Benson Mittelstadt >>>>>> Zucker? Olofsson >>>>>>> Quinn Skinner >>>>>>>> Malenstyn? Mittelstadt to Zucker is a clear downgrade and Quinn instead of Olofsson should be a clear upgrade. Skinner to Malenstyn is a downgrade. Perhaps with fit improvement some would argue Skinner/Beck a wash, in which case, even then, we are merely counting on injury luck to get us back to only ~ even at F when we *already needed improvement* OUT: Mittelstadt, Skinner, VO IN: Zucker, Malenstyn, Quinn

I don’t really think the scarcity of a take is necessarily a commentary on its validity and therefore easily cast aside I’ve been on an island a bunch and I can’t say it’s always lead to me being mistaken

Can’t say I agree. It’s more less the Ullmark situation then and wantonly casts away the variable of time and how things change. It’s playing much too fast and loose when the overpay is the significant lesser of two evils. The point isn’t to have an offer “as good as anyone else”. Or a fair offer. The point is to *get the player*. does what you are saying not sound to you like exactly what Adams would say? Actually asking. It’s the type of thinking that allows you to come away with “I played my cards properly relative to the market” rather than “I played my cards properly in terms of securing a player” This is just more of the same. You aren’t REALLY prioritizing the asset.. the playoffs. You are still trying to see if you can have your cake and eat it too You are prioritizing getting him at the price you deem fair. How often had this worked for Adams?

I don’t really get the “I’m 100 percent confident we make it this year” or the “we absolutely won’t be better” statements. there’s a wide spectrum of potential results. Missing the playoffs is so frustrating because we all know it doesn’t take much to randomly go off one year to the tune of making it. The Caps didn’t so much “go off” as implode slowly and THAT was enough. We obviously COULD make it, and it would also absolutely not be surprising if we didn’t, considering past precedent. I struggle to see why there’d be confidence, other than a gut feeling, in predicting either to a certainty At least with the type of slow play offseason we’ve seen again so far

Speaking of Ehlers, I wonder if the reason the Jets and Sabres seem, at least anecdotally to me, to link up for trades so often is because we are both dealing from a position of similar weakness re: attractive destination. After all, Winnipeg is always listed as even more undesired than Buffalo according to the league’s players. We are sort of kin in that sense While having these conversations, we should consider picking their management’s brains re: how they managed to field a playoff team 7 times since they returned in 2011, with hardly anyone but their homegrowns willing to sign, and even then sometimes not (Dustin Byfuglien, etc etc) Chevy has been pretty creative overall

There’s just no viable excuse for not bringing in a competent 3C. Because we traded a good C we had when we didn’t have to. It doesn’t matter if there’s literally no one available: we shouldn’t have made the trade, then

Rossi would be an exceptional add

There seems to be a noted, more extreme shift in narrative in the last few years of Adams tenure, though, no? So either it’s gotten worse, or they are relying on it as a purported excuse more

I’m probably a little biased in Ehlers favour. I’ve seen him play a lot live and he’s pretty darn dangerous. He’s fast, would probably be our fastest player. He was a diver, and I hated that about him, but I think that’s a Maurice taught trait Same draft as Reinhart, I still think he has as much growth potential as Reinhart had and showed I will not be the guy complaining about an overpay if we trade for him

I think your last sentence is where the argument loses me. The sticking point is Isak Rosen? Presumably you think the addition bumps up our playoff chances in a meaningful way, and Rosen is a potential tipping point? We can draft a new Rosen next year, honestly It’s a non-issue And we are rolling it back more less as of right now, too Yes, I understand we tweaked on the fringes, all teams do And I’m not including coach. I’m talking roster. I know Lindy might be the “big addition”

F*ck Chicago. Evergreen. Just have to make the playoffs.

Don’t really see Zucker in the top 6. Even the franchise said it I believe when we got him, I think they mentioned bottom 6 specifically. I’d bet Benson gets first shot, but who knows Peterka - Thompson - Tuch Benson - Cozens - Quinn Zucker - X - Greenway Malenstyn - Lafferty - Aube-Kubel …lines 1 and 4 look pretty set to me. Middle 6 is where we need work. And from the outside, too. That missing X, at least, to allow for a “get the puck to the net” 3rd line that’s difficult to play against If Benson sophomore slumps maybe we get Zucker - Cozens - Quinn Benson - X - Greenway ..in the middle 6. Rendering the “X” addition even more important

All of those options are significantly better than what we got if the “players won’t come here” narrative is as true as people say. That’s my point. Options 1 and 2 are absolutely fine and again, the (small!) risk of him being LTIR’d forever and Pegula’s yacht being affected and us losing Tuch was easily easily worth the risk considering the *much more likely* perception hit we demonstrably took This fallout was always likely and predictable. It wasn’t really like the surgery would break him. And again, that’s STILL a way easier result to deal with that being blackballed the Eichel situation wasn’t favourable for us. We don’t need to litigate it again. We did not manage it well: that much history has already recorded

Really? After all this time.. Tim’s son

You are using a hindsight argument. Fair or not, doesn’t make sense to say “nothing we could of done”. Had we let him get the surgery, we’d have no bad buzz, and he would have been fine Having to LTIR him was the worst case scenario even IN hindsight and returns so far suggest that’s a significantly lesser evil between that and the damage it seems to have done to our rep to proceed as we did The logic of Adams’ position that he made the decision with was sort of proved irrelevant: none of it mattered if the league was going to perceive we mistreated him and that’s absolutely what happened. We tanked for the guy, failed to build around him, told him we wanted to do a long form rebuild when he was entering his prime, so he asked for a trade, and then denied that franchise player his preferred surgery, and that was the decision of a first time, harbourcenter promoted GM, who hasn’t made the playoffs and averages 76 points a season I mean, it’s not GREAT optics

How they dealt with Jack definitely affects perception. Hopefully they accounted for the perception fallout league wide Damn, good one

No, my feelings remain the same: was always contingent on who we added at C. We are much weaker at F right now than before the Byram trade. Specifically C. Adams can penny pinch on a top 6 wing cause it’s more important to have two prospects who may or may not help and who may do so in 4 years, well after he’s fired, and we’ve decided the lesser of two evils is missing the playoffs again to a much greater certainty - but we need a 3C To keep playoffs at least reasonably possible

Oh ok None of the above

Be careful or the Man will Die