Thorner

It wasn’t a seemingly deep D at season’s start, though. Plenty of people pointed out beforehand, not in hindsight, that depth could be an issue. “The additions were fine. They just didn’t play as well as we expected they would” as a valid defence would sort of eliminate all ability to evaluate the gm, no? As long as he gets guys he THINKS will be good, he’s in the clear? Kinda a low bar. Unless the performance of these guys dropped off the map like say maybe a Hall, I think we can say the output of the D thus far has been more less reflective of the group assembled

Everything has to be a one sided moment in time where only one possible conclusion can be drawn, that fits happily into the determinations we’ve formed in advance, rather than a long, gradual process with a multitude of potential off shoots along the way, where in this unlimited universe it stands to reason there are MANY potential outcomes. Consider there are infinite parallel universes (there are) - (sorry) Of course Adams COULD have signed Ullmark. Before he became a UFA. Beyond it being strictly possible, it defies logic to think it not reasonably possible when Ullmark from all reports was negotiating with the team for a long time. and ya, the GM said it lol

You have my endorsement.

Plenty of noteworthy names from the time who didn’t utter noteworthy racist statements, though Who are equally or more so deserving. The argument for keeping Smythe in it is simply “because that’s the way it’s been” It wasn’t just a comment, he actively had a part in preventing Herb from being able to join the NHL

He’s their MVP, by far. He’s not their tipping point piece Regardless of when he was granted/he assumed the role

This is semantics, though. I wasn’t using “around” in the manner you took it - it wasn’t a comment about whether he can, to a certainty, “start” as the focal point - in the manner we saw them place the franchise focus on him. It’s “around the concept of Eichel being the best player on said team” not necessarily that he’s the ideal starting point. I think in the right situation it would defy logic to think that was *impossible* but truthfully I’m not interested in arguing that, really. Too much unknown. The way the Sabres structured around Jack clearly did not work. But what about, if they hadn’t tanked to get him? Or if they made ROR captain? If the Sabres centred their entire build focus around Jack to the detriment of the rest of the roster, there’s plenty of blame on the organization for doing that, not just Jack. They had to cave to the 18 year old’s demands? Eichel is capable of being the best player on a good team. This is the point of what I was saying. Your contention is about when that player can be added to the fold. We can’t know whether based on the data, a good team can be built up around Eichel, from a starting point of “bad” - all I know is that the Sabres build, around Eichel, didn’t work. But that’s already apparently obvious. With only one failure to build around him from the staring point of bad team, where there are *myriad* of variables present, it can’t be suggested to be already proven that it cannot be done. If anyone wants to claim to a certainty that the Sabres were doomed from the beginning and even with a proper GM, COULD NOT possibly have built a good team, once Jack was here, have at it, I guess. Who knows. I’m content in the point I’m making that Eichel is capable of being the best player on a good team. That the Sabres, too, could have so too built a good team, with a Jack in the fold, up to and including him being the best player on said team. The way in which they anointed him as the saviour and stripped away everything to get him, and so placed the franchise on his shoulders from the beginning, clearly did not. How exactly that team needs to be constructed in terms of the order of addition is anyone’s guess and to think there would be an full-stop rule rather than a myriad of potential scenarios based on fit would be exceptionally dicey imo

Speaking of the Art Ross, Tage currently sits in 1st place in the race for the secondary Art Ross awarded to the player who sits at the top of the non-McDavid - and - cake - job - linemate rankings: the scoring trophy available for mere humans. Dahlin, in second, is closing in on Karlsson for 1st place in D scoring (no separate alien category, here) - - - Tage, in 3rd for league scoring, is the same distance from 1st (15) as he is from 42nd. McDavid should be winning the Hart every year

So you must have missed the part where I said he shouldn’t be erased from the record books? We don’t need to name the trophy after him, that’s all I’m saying Hardly a cancelation. But with notably racist comments attributed to him, I’d rather name the Smythe something else ymmv

Probably about as much as I’d have on Jack being a front runner for Selke. And I’d be sitting at a push currently for my “Eichel top 10 in MVP race” bet - - - Eichel leads his team in points. He’s the only player above point a game on his team. He’s a plus 17 (for those who care. Pi - he’s #1 team relative), 21 of his 29 points are ES, and he has ZERO penalty minutes, all with excellent advanced numbers on a team at the top of the league If you think my view on Jack have been proven anything but MORE accurate this season, you are barking up the wrong tree. Unless I missed the part where I said Jack’s talents are nullified in totality by the mere occurrence of Jeff Skinner having more pointz. Particularly when this is the only time you ever quote me

The Sabres *could* have built around Eichel, successfully. The Sabres *did not* build around Jack successfully. It reached a point where, from all reasonable accounts, the Sabres could *no longer* feasibly build around Eichel, successfully. Eichel is *not* blameless in this and it became an untenable situation, for both parties. It’s Kudos to KA on making that decision. In a vacuum I’d prefer he was still here. Seeing the way the *intrinsic* logic of Adams’ plan has borne out, I wouldn’t reverse the trade if able to, and at this stage wouldn’t consider it. As always that’s a sliding scale and can be revisited. It was never “addition by subtraction”. It was “addition made possible by necessary subtraction” a distinction.

Borderline blasphemous

Anderson will never be gone. Not as long as those who remain here are loyal to him.

“Do I look nervous?”

How about Jost?

I’d honestly be shocked if we led the league in goals and missed. One of those will break They just can’t willingly forgo a significant G upgrade to spare his feelings, tho

I think you are about right

You gotta stop trying to catch me in a contradiction - - - im not alternating the base of my argument, I was playing under the “seems to be” lingo you introduced, under the prism of good faith. “Seems” isn’t “is”. Dylan indeed needs to continue to bear this out. But didn’t you see the part in my post where I said exactly that? That Cozens needs to complete the season this year? “Tbh, IF Cozens holds up” is what I said. But if your target was “seems to be”, we should make note of what it accurately is, under the context you’ve chosen

Honestly I don’t think Murray trading a 1st hurts, or hinders his argument. There’s a ton of context at play: notably, that Adams moves *in general* speak to aptitude, whereas Murray’s moves did not. Murray didn’t perform well then get burned when he tried to deal a pick for a player. The *majority* of his moves reflected poor aptitude. That is to say, Murray’s dealing of a first failed more because of his poor evaluation, and poor decision making ie WHEN to make the trade (which I things goes with your point), than it did because it’s no bueno full stop to trade a first for a goalie. The time wasn’t last offseason, again to your point, but I trust Adams to deal a 1st to supplement the position going forward. It’s just a completely different situation to Murray, now (again, to your point, I think)

Yup. And old habits seem to die hard because Cozens’ production isn’t being called out often enough for what it is: production that of a 1st liner. KA won. It’s over. The “development year” lingo I so despise was the correct play: this year identified the core, and not by default (the key point). It was the correct strategy, in hindsight, because it was clearly useful in identifying said core - I can’t argue it wasn’t worth approaching the season this way, when it had produced so much valuable, workable information. Congratulations, Kevyn Adams. Congratulations, fellow Sabres fans. Our GM is certifiably competent, he has, I believe now to a certainty, come up with a no-bones-about-it, *good* plan. This offseason we start the trial of whether or not he’s just a good GM, full stop. Does he get this team to the next level, the one half the league’s teams makes: the playoffs. If he passes that test, we can see if he’s got what it takes to be a great one. For now, I’m confident in saying: we have a GM. We don’t have a Tim Botterill.

No lol But I think we all know what would (or wouldn’t) happen, if we could

Exactly what I was saying, though ^ Crosby was a double digits guy who took less to... remain double digits. He already got his big deal. The types of guys we are talking about re: discounts right now, the Dylan Cozens etc are not analogous comparisons

And it’s a key point though. He didn’t take a team discount. The Sabres won the day with a shrewd evaluation. Make no mistake, if this business was all sunshine and daisies, maybe Adams since he wants players to want to be here and values the culture so much, allows Tage to renegotiate here instead of probably playing out a deal that frankly greatly underpays the man for his services. Tage is already on track to lose out on at least *20-30 million* in “deserved” pay over the course of his deal. We are frankly stealing from him. So do we see Adams giving him the raise he deserves? Lol, right? And make no mistake, with the trend of playing for expected performance rather than past, it’s unlikely Tage makes up ground on deal 2. The Sabres aren’t going to do Tage a solid here, neither should we expect the players to do so. The Sabres absolutely cannot and I’d argue will not use this excellent work from Adams as a lever to undercut the values of his other guys. Tantamount to a “gotcha” - “you all now need to take extravagantly team favourable deals.” The Sabres savings with Tage are benefit enough. We can appreciate the significant flexibility having an all-star locked up to a 2nd liner’s deal provides without expecting this sort of lucky value to be transmitted among the new deals for other players. That’s not to say we won’t see discounts: the exact process that led to Adams identifying Tage early presumably leads to future savvy evaluations. That is to say: ppl may be right that the Tage deal might mean future good value deals: but not because they’ll be “granted” to KA because he discovered some sort of contract anchor loophole. But rather, because the processes that are evidently leading to the revelation that he’s a good GM are likely to carry forward Disagree. Cozens right now is producing as a 1C. So he “seems to be” a 1C. Isn’t he still getting better? Dahlin won’t be below 10. Dude is pacing for 100 as a franchise D!

These are players that already banked oodles and oodles of cash. Crosby is a 10 million dollar play. Any idea how much he makes in endorsements? This isn’t a Dylan Cozens taking a 25% shave off his first shot at a big deal im sorry and I say this from a spot of trying to help: people are out to lunch on this. Please prepare yourself for players to sign for much closer to market value than anything construed as a solid to their corporate bosses

Agree, and it should also be noted that Tage didn’t “take a discount”, presenting an example for others to follow. He went with job security - a reasonable strategy. But it would be disingenuous to suggest he willingly chose to forgo more elsewhere - he just went with the less risky play.

Even a situation like Tampa, the gold standard of “players buy in at a discount” set the “limit” at the Kucherov 9.5. A superstar # when signed, not to mention the tax discount being in Tampa. The Buffalo Sabres of western NY won’t get away, in 2022, with a “don’t peak behind the Skinner curtain, 7.5 mil TNT-proof” ceiling. If Dahlin does us a massive solid, he comes in at 10 flat and maybe, with generous, love to be here unity among players, THAT sets somewhat of a ceiling