Thorner

No, I’m not ignoring anything, you just aren’t happy with the way I’m classifying it. Bias/narrative is harmful when it goes unacknowledged, when one hides their true intent. Im not doing that.I’m simply telling you that those “surface level things” are what I’m classifying as the “part” I consider true. I’m not saying these things are as important going forward as the positives, in terms of predicting future performance believe it or not, I think there’s actually merit in pointing out how things ARE, not entirely focusing on how we predict they WILL GO. This season, we WERE a cap floor team we DO have a rookie GM we DO have a first time coach we DID do the “no big FA signings“ thing These are some similarities pointed out - the other side of the equation, the hopefully much more predictive side, bodes much better for us

For next season - turns in October. Depends how you want to count 5 years I guess. I simply counted 5 full years as that was what was in my OP, so after 5 more seasons yes, the ages I quoted are what the players will be for that upcoming year. It is that season, 5 years (and a summer) from now and that I guessed Quinn will be our best F

The times Adams has declined to pay the price, and instead “save” them for a better option..say, Ullmark. Murray/Gibson. What was the precedent here? Does Adams seem to fall back to a budget option, or historically land a different, comparable fish? Until he establishes that he can come up with a viable plan B, I’m going to pray and advocate for him to find a way to consummate plan A

No. Just “bird in hand”, basic stuff ignore at will

In 5 years the line we currently live and die by will be the following, in human years: 36-31-32 I really like Quinn, him being our best F in 5 years isn’t something I think necessitates multiple cups. (Though, I’d certainly take it) Do people actually think Skins Tage and Tuch are going to be ripping it up in their prime still as Quinn Peterka and Cozens are in theirs? No wonder no one factors in timeline. There will be / already is some overlap but we won’t be seeing the top line we are seeing this year, in 5 years. They aren’t cryogenically frozen Could easily be the most productive season any of the 3 have, this season. Or maybe not. But it’s not a possibility so small it can be dismissed. id bet on it being Skinner’s, though

I know, that’s why I said “by all means don’t trade the 1st for Hart but the answer can’t be Comrie”. Im just saying that the 1st for Hart is better than doing nothing *under the prism of KA presumably evaluating Hart to be a viable starting G”

Ie I’d rather overpay for a good goalie than not get a goalie at all, but retain my “ahh, I’ve never been on the wrong end of a value swap in a vacuum, sweet” mindset. By all means don’t trade a first for Hart. But the result can’t be “so we kept Comrie” “losing” a deal in a vacuum is better WAY BETTER it’s ullmark all over again. Adams obviously thought he was a good goalie, he tried to sign him. If Adams thinks Hart is good enough to be the starter, he should trust his evaluation and pay the price We can turn down any deal based on talent evaluation. If the talent evaluation checks all the dots and we don’t make the deal, nor another similar, due to the trade not fitting our trade value parameters to a T, it’s a horrible decision

The supposition being that a trade can only be a good one if it’s in line with the market? The entire point is that it’s no good for Adams to remain a slave to the market if the market never produces a viable opportunity. It leaves us in the same place.

And the multiverse where we never dealt Eichel OR O’Reilly

Ok. Pegula made a bad trade then. In terms of what I’m trying to argue, this is semantics. I’m not here to torpedo or defend Botterill i view him as a poor GM because his results were poor. It’s that simple. I don’t use that as a retroactive blank slate to say EVERYTHING he did was bad and if he drafted someone good it was by accident. Nor do I pretend that some of our best players, now, that Botterill is responsible for bringing in (simply: cause and effect, don’t even need to get into “credit” or lack thereof) performed “poorly” under Botterill, simply because they were youthful assets still developing, sometimes not even playing in the NHL yet (Cozens), and sometimes playing really well (Dahlin). That’s super revisionist

But trades are a means to an end. Botterill can only have done “ok” in that deal if no attention is paid to what he was trying to accomplish. After trading ROR, Eichel came of age and had a big development jump, coming into his own as an mvp candidate. Exactly the WRONG time to deal your second best player for assets that didn’t look good until..about now I’ll say it again, not enough attention is paid to the Time asset - the assets dealt for in Botterill’s case amounting to good players in a time frame where he would already be out of a job doesn’t make the trade a good one it shows he did have an eye for talent, sometimes. It doesn’t mean the *trade* was good. It doesn’t mean he *managed the team* well

Nah. He said himself “my bad” He’s clearly clearly aiming for the pass Goes between the defenders legs and he’s to the right of the goal lol

This is gonna be a thing now eh Dahlin was REALLY good under Botterill Cozens did not play under Botterill. He played all of 41 games, as a rookie, under Adams and Krueger Power did not play under either Samuelsson did not play under either Thompson played all of 60 games under botterill, one season, at 20 years old ie a totally undeveloped player - - - Botterill was a bad GM. These players didn’t flounder under Botterill, though. Plenty didn’t play and the ones that did (Dahlin) generally played really well. Everyone had a really bad (short) season in the covid year under Krueger. Adams as GM. Even Adams had a bad year. Of course Krueger wasn’t a good coach. More and more that season looks like an anomaly re: any production or lack thereof within it

They would lose by a million. The nhl team would destroy them. the VERY BEST cfl team would be DESTROYED by the worst NFL team and cfl is PRO. Nm amateur

A good way to narrow down this argument and save everyone a bunch of time would be: who wins between the 80s all stars and..the 2023 Chicago Blackhawks? I’ve got a feeling plenty of the people saying 80s in the initial hypothetical will have the same answer Then shut down the damn thread Jesus you aren’t “age reducing” anyone. It’s simply an inter dimensional portal opening up by which the two teams get to play eachother. It’s the standard, “who wins, Gandalf or Darth Vader?” nerds like us have done for eons

Again, if you upgrade their training, *there is no hypothetical*. With the training of today from birth the 80s all stars would be...you guessed it, the all stars of TODAY Can the all stars of today beat a college team? Hmm who knows!

- - - Hey join the club

I kinda doubt anyone that took the time to formulate their opinion in good faith is going to throw it out the window based on...one game. As much as every game around here has to be a referendum on everything, everywhere, all at once

You are just detailing the differences between the teams, I already know all those things I was engaging in the argument being laid out by another poster. Technically the things he mentioned are currently true: thus the “truth in the middle” thing. As mentioned in my post, the extensions alone will bump up our payroll and the extensions are evidence, obviously, of internal growth

So, another evaluation year for the position, then

Speaking of jimmy and terry

Looks pretty solid to me. If anything he has a habit of too often going for the highlight reel play - that pass to no one yesterday was, without an ounce of hyperbole, one of the funniest/most terrible offensive decisions I’ve ever seen, considering how much space he had. He couldn’t have seen anyone there, no one was close. Clearly doesn’t need to worry about the fancy play as he has the skill to do what he did right after. if I had to pick which of our forwards is our best F in 5 years, I’d pick Quinn

As always the truth lies somewhere in the middle, yes

Ouch i think we eventually spend more than them, though, just through extensions

The answer to all those questions is yes. That’s the only way the hypothetical works. *of course* the nhl’ers would steam roll them if you levelled the playing field. They are some of the best hockey players, relatively, of all time. the whole point of it is to do it “as is” and athletes today are simply bigger, faster, better why are all the Olympic track records from today? Re set every year? Hockey is just immune? athletes today are better specimens, full stop, that’s it, enjoy your day