Thorner

So you refuse to listen to what I’m saying alright

He’s their best player/ among their best 3 players. That’s what a winning team looks like. THAT IS THE POINT Malkin was as good as Crosby when Crosby was winning Smythes! That people are *still* not grasping this is why I remain. This isn’t about Jack Eichel. Never was. It’s about *hockey*. Until people see this I’ll keep going To win, ANY player ALWAYS needs to be just *one of a number*. The Sabres failed not by casting Eichel as “clear cut guy”, but rather because they cast, anyone, as clear cut guy.

its half tongue and cheek, anyways. *Which people keep missing.* I have altered my stance on JE over time. That’s the hilarious rub: my takes on JE are accurate only because *ive altered them*. The exact opposite of the rigidity people are claiming by saying I “talk about it too much”

Do you have any idea how many people said he was a cancer you couldn’t win with? If that wasn’t you, no need to feel “seen” by my posts on JE

Fast 10 was enjoyable garbage. It helps that they are parodying themselves at this point, they did a good job showing their self-awareness, at times, at least. Wick 4 still the best of 2023 easily John Wick: Chapter 4 Guardians 3 Dungeons & Dragons Ant-Man 3 Fast X Renfield 65 Plane Cocaine Bear

That the ignore feature as a discussion point is now entering the fray, only once I’ve been proven correct, says all you need to know Ultimate projection ^. That’s a sad way to see SS. I see people changing their minds all the time. It’s a fantastic place for discussion and debate. Perhaps Doohickie and others feels it’s “the same convo over and over” on JE because of the rigid stances they themselves have: anyone who reads my posts can see my stance on JE has changed significantly over time. From saying Adams was wrong to trade him, to saying it was the correct decision. If the fact the guy, who defends Eichel more than anyone else, himself admits the trade was a good one, doesn’t say something to you: you aren’t listening, you don’t care to listen, you are just plowing forward with blinders for the world on. More less like a zamboni - - - I won’t ever put anyone on ignore because I’m not afraid to have my opinions challenged. Even Zamboni, who posts seemingly exclusively to express to other posters how much more high minded he is than all the other lowly fans, hasn’t achieved that distinction. No doubt I’ve met the axe on his, self-admitted echo chamber end.

Yes

Beers on the ice in Dallas lol and heeeeere coooome the pretzels

20-1

It’s been lacking since round 1

that’s you, and the way you said the bolded

No, he dies in Goblet In how to beat everyone, slowly

Not much of an allegory guy

Vegas was quicker, by far, than Edmonton at even strength. Did the fastest team in the league decide to have no urgency, round 2? Vegas manipulates the pace, it’s not a “lack of urgency” or some other thing we need to invent to downplay their success Or Dallas for that matter

Me taking the Mickey out of this place IS me relaxing

3/4 being pylons on ice that year is more deserving of the “slow” designation. The key as mentioned was veterans who could actually still play thus commanding respect. The roster was bad. We don’t need to have a retroactive conversation that oh wait we were actually good, It’s all jack and sam’s fault, whatever. This debate should be over. We built bad teams. How many guys need to blossom in other organizations before we put aside our bias and acknowledge it? times have changed - if the organization was capable of realizing what went wrong surely we can. I don’t see the need to pretend Eichel and Sam couldn’t have been good here because it makes one feel better. Is this the new thing? “Ok they are good, I admit it....but it couldn’t have happened here!” That’s just FOMO. Ya, it could have. It just didn’t because the people actually in charge did a putrid job.

Huh? Florida is getting their ass handed to them while Carolina gets goalied lol I’m sure the two final 4 teams out west are actually bad and slow and they just don’t have those sabres vi1bes lol

Vegas looking like the team to beat

I think he just played on bad teams tbh. Poorly assembled. I know the culture has changed but so too has the overall talent level. All that stuff we all said about the rosters not being good enough, about Mojo and Sobotka being clearly insufficient as a line 2, like from training camp.. all that stuff is still true. The culture was a symptom of talent lacking teams for far too long. I don’t think we just randomly drafted/traded for a bunch of ******. There’s a few exceptions, notably enhanced by bad timing, but by and large it’s not that there was a surplus of toxicity, what we had imo was an absence of leadership. I think @Weavementions this a lot, unless I’m mistaken. Our prized draft picks coming into, largely, a talent AND leadership *void* (Notably and especially, lacking veteran leaders who were *still good*). Which, through losing, fosters the growth of the seeds of poor culture. It all comes back to Murray and Botterill and whoever’s decision it was to scorched-earth tank. I don’t know that I have it in me to blame any single one player. Not after 10 000 posts ripping management for a decade. not even Brad Boyes

Granato, who everyone is singing the praises of, frequently *lauded* Reinhart’s efforts and leadership ability. We need to stop carrying weight for bad GMs who built bad teams. It’s ok, they can’t hurt you anymore. Adams is here. Shhhhhhh. These guys getting more favourable roles and matchups is a totally different point to the “these guys didn’t play hard” bit, tho

He did

The league needs a finkle vs einhorn final

“By the end” it’s when you use this verbiage i agree. I think by the end it was clearly unsalvageable, and that Adams made the necessary and correct decision. could it have worked out, had the asset not been squandered and drowned in ineptitude from Tim Murray’s *DISAPPOINTED REACTION* forward? I mean, of course. It got to a POINT where he had to go, but it took a long time to get there. Of course he “grows up” here, we saw it in 2019/20. In other words, If Adams was the GM in 2015, the whole situation, imo, never goes off the rails. Or, if Eichel doesn’t go to a situation that literally anointed him as saviour through both the scorched earth tank process and mechanisms afterword. If he’d have been expected to be a very good player among other very good players, and even the best among that crew, that’s fine. To suggest Eichel simply can’t be present on a team that improves, that he’s a hinderance to improvement, itself, on its face is just the stage of Cope that comes after “can’t win with this cancer.” ”ok, you can win, he can be great, but he can’t be there for the process.” Of course he can. If it’s a good process. The *buffalo sabres* under historically inept management doesn’t even come close to representing a definitive college try

Ftfy - - - Just because we didn’t manage to build a successful team when Jack was here absolutely doesn’t mean/prove jack can’t be present during the process (which seems to be the suggestion) while a successful, balanced roster, of the type currently in Vegas, is built up and constructed. That he would specifically need to be added “at the end” doesn’t jive logically - not when there’s a multitude of other variables pointing to how poorly management operated while he was here, during that “building” process. To pretend we can isolate his role in supposedly hampering the process to the extent the exact same team he’s so fluidly a part of in Vegas *couldn’t* have been built *while* he was there is an incredible leap. Why would that be the case? I mean just on it’s face, there’s no compelling reason to think a player who, by all accounts, plays a crucial leadership role over there couldn’t have done so if he was there a bit earlier. Provided the same support, of course. The same team being built. I don’t think the order is key here, at all. The only “evidence” that suggests otherwise is that he couldn’t CARRY a *bad* team, poorly constructed, at 18, in Buffalo. That proves literally nothing. On the other hand, he has proven he is capable of being the best player on a fantastic team, all the while filling a leadership role: he’s that right now. Occam’s razor here is clearly that he’s capable of being a great player on a great team, while fulfilling a leadership role. That’s already been proven, now. That IS being “built around”. If the standard for being “built around” is literally the ability, while on your ELC for the majority of it, no less, to will a putrid team to the playoffs with little support to be found: try the NBA, as it’s a standard no NHL player can live up to. He needed the proper support. Yes. But: *that’s every player.*