Thorner

Were you out west at the time? The Sabres Jets trades have always come with an added degree of difficulty for me, considering the situation of being surrounded by people arguing the deal (s) primarily from the Jets’ perspective

That’s a good point, it probably did I’m sure if I could type back then I’d have a word document or several filled with similar bitching to that of my Eichel output

Ya if we lose him for nothing you’d have to believe that was an accepted offshoot of rostering a better guy and already factored in to acquisition cost this is Kevyn Adams we are talking about, here

This trade was heartbreaking and the first one I remember. Opening education into the idea that Buffalo as a small market loses its big stars

Not even nice: strictly crucial. In today’s NHL you need 2 guys. Keep going back to it: the Vezina winning tender on the best team had a compliment G who got like 40% of the starts

Even a small number is a number, it’s true

Funnily enough, even the rather hopeful, risky position that Levi can buck trend and be a legit starter right out the gate is something I see almost everyone to a man granting. There’s a ton of faith at work here, and willful belief. The bridge too far sticking point appears to be doubling down on that risk to an even further, probably needless degree by failing to roster a competent back up. There’s sort of a conflation: full belief in Levi doesn’t really have anything to do with the fact you need 2 good goalies: the discussion has always been about 2 roster spots, not one. It’s much closer to a 1C/2C dynamic than it is a 1C, negligible 13th man/mostly bench position dynamic, that some seem to treat it as. The fact a capable backup provides insurance to the idea Levi needs to be a statistical anomaly is simply, merely what makes it a no brainer addition We can bet on Levi. We should. But we don’t need to be so confident so as to laugh in the face of potential imminent danger by needlessly disregarding our backup parachute to prove a point, while jumping out of the plane. You still equip the second chute if you are serious

I totally remember him eliminating us in 1998 but yet had zero recollection of acquiring him in 99. Cool A fair few notable Sabres Jets swaps tbh

Briere for sure Gilmour trade was pretty fun. Especially cause it came with JP Dumont

So to absolutely smash Skinner’s team leading plus minus mark last season? Seems lofty

That there are projections for him to be man 13 to me is a function of the Sabres lacking a proper 13th man. It seems open to pretty much anybody right now because the competition is Brett Murray, Vic Olofsson, and Rousek Granted, Kozak is well behind even those guys but that’s where the perception he’s an option arises, imo

A guy who most likely doesn’t sniff the NHL but also one our instincts would (correctly, imo) have us hold out hope for, simply because of the apparent improved aptitude of the pool at large. Hope will spring eternal for these guys to a man, now (especially if you ask SabreNoise). More likely he’s another Josh Bloom. That’s not a bad thing: aided by such a deep pool, Adams is primely positioned to identify which of the prospect pieces make the most sense as currency, even in such a timely matter where the rest of the league still holds said currency prospects in high regard, with only their outsider perspective of the Sabres’ deep pool to go on

Sorry, I think I was mentally reverting back to what we’d be selling him as, as being able to do on a new team on buffalo I agree I don’t really see 60. 50 though considering Quinn tbh you’d know better if this’ll grant VO more PP time this year. I’m worried about L3

He did pace for 64 points in 19-20. So, he’s already accomplished that pacing outlier but, again, this more so serves my point from the other day about how the dismissal of Jack’s 19-20 is revisionist. VO was so good/notched an outlier season that year because he played with a guy having an MVP quality breakout season. Certainly can’t expect VO to replicate that moving forward. But 50 is there.

Well, that’s why I said he’s a 40 point guy. Who could HIT 50. You really can’t see him ever hitting it? I mean he hit 49 two seasons ago, 50 would def seem in range.

He’s a likely 40 point guy who conceivably hits 50 with healthy, maybe even 60 with health + PP time. He’ll have to improve his 2-way game to be a net positive on line 3, regardless Quinn injury granted him a reprieve. We’ll see what he does with it.

He’s not represented well by the 25-15 Esque stat line because he’s historically not a cy young stat guy. Last year represented the divergence relative to his usual career output. No sense pretending the idea of balance doesn’t have a positive connotation and VO’s stats/ability need not be represented without that in mind. Truth be told it’s at least def possible his playmaking is drying up but there’s good faith statistical evidence to construct the argument it’s more likely not the case at all

Was exactly the point. The fact of the matter, on a per 82 game basis he’s averaged over 50 the past 4 years. Using per game metrics isn’t exactly unusual. You could reasonably argue he has at least a fairly conceivable shot at 50 upon acquiring him, when the main obstacle has been health and not performance.

Well, it’s only July and our nhl roster already has one “and I guess VO” pencilled in, and next man up is a rookie full stop, if a vet simply gets hurt, never mind beat out. After the top 6, our guys are: Krebs, Olofsson, Greenway, Okposo, Girgensons, Jost, Rousek, Kulich, etc It certainly doesn’t read like lightning after you get past Casey/Cozens/JJP ymmv

NO correlation between size and success as a goalie? Find that hard to believe It doesn’t need to be the biggest factor to be *A* factor. The body of starting goaltenders suggest size is still favourable, at this time. Though, as dudacek has pointed out, it’s a shifting trend

I’m still getting used to the fact we no longer care about assembling a gauntlet of competition through which the cream rises to the top, that nowadays it’s more so about doing the exact opposite: holding down spots on the roster “unblocked”, instead, free of capable vets who provide talent obstacles for the kids, the spots instead dangled in front of the youth like carrots. Not arguing the merits of one strategy vs the other but it’s certainly notable That is to say, if VO gets a spot as a vet it’s literally by default, and if a rookie gets the spot instead, they’ve beaten out no one but other rookies, and VO

It’s pretty unfortunate that to win a spot he has to merely beat out...a bunch of guys who’ve never played in the NHL before

I remember my dad explaining this one to me as a young kid, getting an early education on how prime/upside work. That we were trading some future upside with Turgeon, that was the risk, but we were getting a player who was better in the now. And how that trade off sort of works. Good memory

He’s not a 15 assist guy lol. VO’s goal scoring is somehow overrated and his assist contribution continuously underrated. He’s averaged 21 assists per season the last 4 seasons and that’s *not* a per game mark. Per 82 game frame, VO has averaged 26 assists per over the last 4 seasons You have the goals pretty much spot on, he’s averaged 26 per 82 over the last 4. So, VO averages 52 points over 82 his last 4 seasons. It’s not nothing. If he’s a one trick pony, and he arguably is, it’s his full offensive game, though, as the one trick I just think 25/25 paints a more fair, accurate picture, his drop off this past season (largely due to usage imo) notwithstanding. Guarantee if KA is shopping him, he’s shopping what he’s calling a “50 point player” in a favourable situation

He can honestly pass too if given the proper C. We saw the kind of game Eichel was able to drag out of him He’s fine beside an elite C. Which isn’t saying much for him, I guess. As the lineup currently stands I really don’t like his fit on L3