Thorner

He finished 8th in points for centres last year and his D isn’t anything to write home about, so this seems fair. Considering he only did it for 1 year so far, I’m quite happy with the ranking tbh

You really think he can match Dahlin offensively one day? I can’t see it but I’d certainly take it

I get lumped into stormcloud sometimes so speaking on behalf of anyone I represent: I’m not firing KA if we miss. Regardless of how. If we miss again the following year: he should be fired, also regardless of how. If you are the GM for 5 years and can’t get in the playoffs once, you are a poor GM. I don’t care how good you look relative to the bums we’ve had: he’d be definitively below league average if we can’t make the dance 50% of teams make, once in 5 years. Pick a better plan if that’s the case, jeepers sakes.

Bazinga

See bolded below (in weave’s post) and just to add to weave’s great post

This is exactly why Dahlin will always have competition as our “best” d-man, in perception, and it’s the same sort of thinking that had people saying absurdly that Samuelsson, somehow, was our best defensive D last year. Because he provided no offense at all his D must have been otherworldly and Dahlin’s D must lack because he’s great on O. It’s all utterly erroneous. Dahlin was *head and shoulders* our best at ACTUAL d last year (check the statistics if you care) and Power has a HELL of a ways to go to match Dahlin there. Frankly, we may never even get to the spot where we are comparing their offense Dahlin was better defensively at 18 on a terrible team after COMING OVER FROM EUROPE than home grown Canadian Power (who I love as a player) was at TWENTY on a much better team. This is insane. These players are worlds apart because Dahlin is everything they said he was. Looks like Power will be everything they said, too. But that’s kind of my point.

- He was right about the culture needing a major shake up. (I was also wrong about this ftr). This alone is a pretty significant factor to his credit. It’s resulted in a franchise that, while I wouldn’t proclaim to necessarily be “set up for sustained success”, undoubtedly looks stabilized, which is a significant thing. Of vital importance. It would be exceptionally disappointing if this apparent stability was ever squandered one day, regardless of if KA has moved on. The stability should be a lasting credit to his name. - the jump from the season ending in ‘22 to the one ending in ‘23 represents one half of the journey to bonafide playoff mainstay. I know the raw points gained would indicate a greater leap than half, but sample size needs to be a consideration when “mainstay’ is used and also because I believe the last points are hardest to get: and the most meaningful. - I’m on the fence re: his use of them as currency but by early/medium returns he’s a good drafter of prospects / assembled a good draft team (just as impressive) -He seems to do quite well in the trades he does make: regardless of how crucial the deal. I’d say I could stand to see him make more, but I suppose that’s the other thread

I admittedly cringe just at “2027”, and though I’m actively worried we damage our window in the pursuit of chasing it: the ceiling, undoubtedly, looks rather staggering

Though I undoubtedly and admittedly am full of “it”, or something derogatory no doubt, we’ve almost never seen eye to eye, so it doesn’t really surprise me our perspectives differ here. You frequently take disagreement with the strategy to be ignorance. Frankly the perception I come away with from most threads is exactly what I originally said. But like I also said, it SHOULD be positive. That’s deserved imo. I share much of it. As I said originally, there are certain posts from certain posters that feel very much like policing. I reference mostly ones directly responding to me but also just what I’ve seen to an extent I don’t get as hung up on Nill’s posts, which also probably makes a difference

Very true. It’s certainly true of my own experience, though Which is all I can really speak to

couldn’t*

The Barb side of the films is a pathway to many viewing experiences some would consider to be...enjoyable - - - I have it 5 for the year Rn tbh

Dahlin I agree with the unanimous consensus

We are at least at (to use my old term) Base Level Competence. Which, make no mistake, is a drastic turnaround, as you rightly point out. That base level competence is so far beyond where we were, yet still (at least thus far) leaving us in a below-average spot standings wise is where much of the consternation comes from I think. It can and is two things at once, we can (and should) say we have seen a ton of improvement while at the same time saying more is *necessary*. Not that it’d be nice: literally that it must come, in reasonably punctual fashion, for the improvement we have seen to be made whole. I think my biggest contention is that those claiming the success itself is already here.....difficult to put into words but I guess just for me, it ruins the fun. We’ve been waiting so, so long for much of *any*, if we need to proclaim it here, before it even actually is, it’s anticlimactic

Optimism pessimism rinse repeat Enough already

I certainly have a better reading of your stance than you have of mine, it must be said. The bold isn’t what I’m saying at all, you miss (ignore?) the nuance. I’m not (have never said) they squandered anything by engaging in development years: merely that conversion in a reasonable time frame afterwords is revelatory in terms of whether those years were squandered, or not I deal in results you deal in a peacocking your glorious optimism, for all to fall short of

You folks are basically incapable of framing much of anything beyond the parameters of “optimism“, eh? It’s lazy, its boring, it’s honestly tiring. You aren’t interested in discussing anything other than continually laying out your belief in Adams’ course of action - I don’t mean this flippantly: you literally just continually state that Adams has a documented plan we know dude I know

I did not make that assumption In fact, I picked them to make the playoffs LAST year (contrary to your other statement, earlier, actually)

Absolutely it’s a failure if we miss. Regardless of injuries. Are you kidding? As a GM, you can absolutely toss away *multiple* years to free pass evaluation years, as part of your plan, but the price is that once you are “ready to win”, your runway for conversion shrinks since we are WILLINGLY committing years to record where there is no expectation. Or else, why wouldn’t every GM select the long range plan, if they could be granted all these free cake years with NO CHANGE to the timeframe of expected success afterwords, once the team decides to turn the page? A time frame of 5 years is more than fair. KA committed a terrible team to the ice his first year, and tossed away the next 2 in the name of development. That’s fine. But he’s got 2 years now: you have to make the playoffs within a 5 year frame - - - anyways that’s my weekly summer posting output matched in a day, my sincerest apologies

Exactly. Where John missteps is he keeps saying this is the “right” way to build. Even if we *succeed* that absolutely hasn’t been proven, there’s of course more than one way. Never mind waiting till we actually get success

The place has become SO overwhelming “fall in line with the plan or you aren’t a true fan” positive that even the smallest critical take sticks out, like the singular drink to the non-drinker. It’s why we get takes like that, when it’s by FAR the most optimistic (deservedly so) its been in a while

This is the exact policing that is severely cutting down my enjoyment here: an *overwhelmingly* positive board that has certain members actively losing their minds at even the sniff of the suggestion of concern you have it ass backwards. Respectfully

We aren’t in a “fantastic” position if we miss the playoffs lol. Maybe you weren’t referring to this coming season, though I thought I was the guy who said that

Get rid of the pond hockey, shinny-esque 3 v 3 OT that bears as little resemblance to actual hockey as the shootout: I don’t need 5 minutes of keepaway. PP merchants would have even more value

Literally the same thing lol just depends what you are used to