Thorner

What was your first clue

It’s why I always laugh when people look at the ROR deal and are like: “oh Tage panned out, good deal.” Perhaps the most irresistible, unmovable variable in life itself, Time, somehow seems to creep under the radar all too often. Plenty of the reason these guys didn’t do anything here and did stuff later is exactly that: timing. *When* we are adding these players and expecting them to carry the mail. *When* we choose to surround them with competent reinforcements. *When* one talent is here, and in his prime, where another is not, yet, or not yet in their prime. The roster building here has in large part been a story of missed connections. Few of them have been in the right place at the right TIME. We can accumulate talent but struggle to construct a *team*, because a good team necessarily results from a multitude of things pulling in a consistent direction at the same time. They are united in that aim. It’s not a situation where half is pulling for development: that’s improper timing relative to rest of roster that has aims of winning

There’s no sense acting like the particular combination of talent isn’t as important as the talent itself. It’s a huge concern. Casey just bears more of it right now cause so much of the rest of the core is locked up. There aren’t many spaces left really and solidifying a core that sits bottom of the league should be a concern and if it’s not, I think we’ve lost the plot. I am a Casey guy. Even when his perception was at the lowest I was saying he’d still be a good third line player. He’s been even better. But I do not know what we should do Statistical prime for forwards is like 23/24

I hope KA remembers this when he pencils in rookies to plug roster holes this offseason. I hope the board remembers it

Funniest thing is after a long, long 30 years I’ve essentially come full-circle back to the “lunch pail, hard hat” mentality they used to use on tv when speaking about the Sabres in the 90s haha. It’s not really about being a descriptor of the particular skill sets you look for in players you want to roster: but rather it speaks to the honesty of the mindset. None of the disenfranchisement I spoke of up thread: a refusal to turn your nose up at “just” making the playoffs. I freaking love Buffalo. I love THAT Buffalo. Make the playoffs. Make me the f*cking GM.

There are much better coaches than Don Granato, like Mike Tomlin, who like to say, “The Standard is the Standard.” The desired culture is one of expectation; not camaraderie

The mentality that led to the rank tank was the mistaken, ill-begotten idea that you need to have a superstar to be a good team: rather than the idea that if you have a good team, you don’t *need* a superstar. It’s the difference, in short, between Buffalo and Vegas. Acting like your work in filling out a good team is inconsequential because you’ve nabbed your superstar, and the contrasting realization that if you build a proper team said superstar isn’t necessary for success, at all: merely the key missing ingredient for a *championship* team. But we didn’t want to build that, did we. We talk of building a long term cup champ right now, before ever even making the playoffs. We went ahead and tanked for the star, first. Cart before the horse, Cup before playoffs, par for the course a hair-brained scheme of one of the 3 GMs all attempting some grand design needlessly littered with pitfalls from the start

What we’ve created is a Disenfranchisement Factory for our players. We tie them in to these ridiculous long-form, long-haul, “WAAHNT to be here!1!” endeavours doomed to failure because you alienate the players before any real success is ever achieved It’s a conflict of interest: nhl PLAYER careers are short players want to win and make money. We always just give them the money.

A blinding Occam’s razor It’s really (really) that simple

Jets haven’t seemed to have any issue remaining very competitive. All it takes is competence @TageMVPhad it: 3 buffoons all in one way or another obsessed with a big tear down and rise to prominence. Some master plan just to do something half the league does every single year. It’s actually rather comical, if you think about it. Like in a truly funny way. They are hilariously out of touch Pinky and the Brain level schemes to figure out how to assemble a barbecue

Oy vey, my friend ideally you teach *before* handing out the 50 million dollar contracts, no? I know YOU don’t even believe what you are saying. the national hockey league is professional hockey. It’s not a development league. It’s a product that fans need to pay for. These guys are *paid professionals*. They aren’t “learning to play D”. Absurd. That’s what you do *to* get drafted. Hindsight need not apply. My favourite term nowadays: I told you, NS, this would happen, I told you all offseason. I’m not a wizard: it was just obvious. Simply adding defensive acumen to the forwards while retaining their stellar offence *was never an option*. There would be sacrifice. There would be suffering, I said. It’s a shell game. If we didn’t want to pay the cost to upgrade from the outside: we’d pay it from within. We have sacrificed offence for D. We cannot sit here and say “they’ll learn to do both”. Manager needs to MANAGE - - - As for your other point: if they didn’t configure the roster in such a way, in their *4th year* that playoffs would be a reasonable expectation: that’s assuredly a THEM problem

I’m saying you make the changes necessary to field a team capable of making the playoffs. The idea we don’t have enough talent in the organization, when considering prospects and picks, is absurd. We ought to wield our considerable currency in the name of converting on a playoff berth. That’s the funny thing: it’s really not that hard. 50 percent of teams making the playoffs isn’t frivolous: it’s a definitive stat. It’s not hard to make the playoffs. Again, what we continually see with the Sabres is they are an *anomaly*. This is a very important word: they are exceptions to almost every rule. You can’t be THAT bad without a ton of manual, human error. Because we are bad by choice. People don’t want to hear it because it’s scary: we need to trade away our prospects and draft capital in the name of an honest roster with a lower ceiling, sure, but one that measures results in actual wins in the now. That’s the answer. If you don’t like it, I’m sorry. Enjoy being at the top of prospect lists - I mean that in sincerity: that’s probably the extent of what you are comfortable with. It’s simply what’s necessary and they need the b*lls to do it

I’m not arguing for the status quo.

We really need to get away from this “our top 6 / top 9 / forwards look set” stuff. Nothing is set on this team when you are sitting at the bottom of the league. There is no way you can be that bad and that stench be totally absent from what amounts to a 50% chuck of the roster. We’d be better, if that were the case, and we had as much as you say “set”. A lot of our defensive woes are linked to the poor play of the top 9

Haven’t read the thread yet so I’ll edit this as necessary after I do but a big blowup is the last thing we need. Any sort of tear it down, long form build back up would be literal poison. Adams isn’t going to shift from his plan but if and when a new GM is brought in, it absolutely cannot be someone talking the long game. And it can’t be someone that only views the current results as a means to facilitating something better in the future: talking sustained, contender type success is utter hubris for this franchise at this time. The focus and goal needs to be one thing, I somehow nailed this 2 years ago and have been saying it since: just make the playoffs. That needs to be the goal: nothing else matters. We are trying to facilitate step 5 before ever firmly getting our footing on step 1. We are the receiver turning our head to look down field before the ball is caught.

I don’t think there will be a late run, Mr. Frodo

@SwampD & @Weave - you boys do such a great job parsing all the sh*t out of my arguments, a daunting task @DarthEbriate - you do a great job helping me get more Star Wars sh*t *into* my arguments @GASabresIUFAN you have no idea how much time you save this particular Hobbit through your admirable attention to detail in often laying out the facts and data “fair and square with no contradictions”. I mean it: it relaxes my ocd. (the system isn’t letting me tag/@ Randall Flagg, he must be out for more milk) @nfreemanis a good mod who responds to my posts @bob_sauve28 and @Zamboni and @Norcalforce me to reassess, evaluate, and confirm or change my biases, basically on a day to day basis @Pimlachtops our leaderboards for “likes” received in last year: and that’s SAYING something @bunomatic is AUTOmatic for good contribution on any topic Always learn something from @North Buffalowhen our paths cross on this board @PromoTheRobot defends goaltending more than I defend Eichel (and THAT’s saying something) but this fellow’s heart is so clearly in the right place given his commentary on wanting the building to be full for his precious Sabres @Wyldnwoody44 incomparable swag. Enough said. @MattPieknow more about Math than me, and *THAT’S* say-ok I’m done with this call-back joke Where’s @qwksndmonster? Miss the dude @pi2000is the best poster here because he has the best avatar. That’s really all there is to it. Oh, have you heard he played hockey? He might have mentioned it once or twice if you missed it @Derrico I find to be the Swiss-army knife of sorts of posters: I always feel like, regardless of topic, you’ll have something interesting to say @Curtreminds me of a young me tbh (sorry, just the way it goes). Though actually now I think about it, I think we’re the same age. Ok, you remind me of a young Marvin Hamlisch @LTS provides a perspective I can’t match, but aspire to @tom webster obviously needs to be mentioned for his insight @French Collection thorough attention to detail. I find you to be a particularly level headed and well reasoned poster @CallawaySabresconsidering how red-faced he always is about the team and his tickets, there’s a loyal, golden heart there that even Pony Boy would be proud of @Crusader1969 you have such a knowledgeable base when it comes to the draft and development side of the equation, i find your comments towards others facets, such as the team’s need to be more urgent, exceptionally fascinating because, being so in tune with the development side, one should pay extra attention when you start to spill on it being go-time. @#freejameWe agree a heck of a lot. You obviously see what’s up @mjd1001 we seem to disagree a heck of a lot. You obviously see what’s up. @Mustache of Godyou complimented me on my moustache, once. For that, I am appreciative @Broken Anklesand @erickompositör72 should post a wee bit more. If a little is good, more must be better! @Ducky you seem to have taken up permanent residency here in the wake of the Kane trade. I can comfortably say you are the best acquisition from that deal. We’ve gone back and forth a lot on the Jets over the years and you’ve lost a lot of arguments in the process…but I can honestly say, from the bottom of my heart, that after all this time: I still hate the Jets. And finally, @SDS ..you know what you did.

I’m just here so I don’t get fined

I’m undecided on Granato, I never know how much blame or praise to allot to a coach. Per the bold, you think so? Honestly for me I think a fair line re: axing is after next season, should we miss. This year is a fail if we miss but I think a mulligan is fair. You mentioned the organization isn’t at that point THIS season, and I’d agree, but next season is probably more of an open question. If I had to guess, Adams likely has a leash longer than even next season

Allen “laterals” the ball 2 yards forward lol

These last 2 games have been excellent

“What was the song? The sound of silence?”

I gotta say, Adams can’t really “end up right” about this, at least in so far as the central goal we’ve been talking about, which is making the playoffs. If we make it in year 5, or year 6, or year 7, it says nothing about the fact that teams, statistically, very rarely get to even 4 year playoff droughts (which makes sense mathematically given 50% make it). Only a handful of teams generally at any given time are at that level. Making it 5 years in would be a significantly below average league-relative course to take re: average timeline. I’ve mentioned this before, any sort of playoff appearance beyond this season is certainly “about time” territory. For the franchise, more than obviously, but specifically this regime. Now of course, this is just my view, and opinions aren’t (see: shouldn’t be) static. Adams CAN re-write the narrative. But at this point that would be way of willingly taking a exorbitantly long time to make the playoffs because the success we achieve once there was facilitated by it. Ie: 5 years to just make the playoffs is not “job well done” but if the payoff of that long road is deep playoff runs over the course of this team’s window, that’s a different story and of course that would reflect on the General Manager