mjd1001

Quinn has played 9 games this year vs 27 last year, so 1/3 the games. But look at the 2 screenshots of where he is getting his shots from. He thrived last year shooting from the center of the ice. This year, in 9 games, he has ONE shot from the center of the ice in front of the goalie, compared to 24 (not even counting the wrap arounds form behind the net, he hasn't had one attempt, or the one from near the blue line.) So, on a per-game basis, he would have 8 shots from between the circles if he was getting chances like last year though 9 games. This year....1.

I never looked at the numbers this deeply, but from watching the games, my opinion was he is the 2nd or 3rd best guy on this team. Ability in the offensive zone he seems tied for 2nd with Power. He seems to me to be pretty reliable with defensive zone exits (pass or skating out). yeah, I will admit he isn't a exactly a bear getting the puck out of corners or cleaning out the front of the net, but I've been decently satisfied with how he plays.

Cozens is taking a LOT of shots. Could it be he is so desperate to get that first goal that he's taking all the shots, not looking to get his wingers involved at all? Cozens leads the team in shots. He's taking 25% more shots per game than last year. 40% more than his career average. Its not the only thing for sure wrong with Quinns game, but if Cozens is just letting a shot off all the time without looking to get Quinn invovled, it might be something?

How good is Columbus? 9 points in 8 games, a positive 8 goal differential. Wins over Colorado, Buffalo, and the last 2 they blew out Toronto and blew out Edmonton. And they are doing it with "bleh" goaltending so far. Other thing I am watching is Kaprizov in Minnesota. He might be what I consider the most under-rated player in the game now. 15 points in 8 games so far. He had almost 50 goals and 100 points last year with missing 7 games. Since he came into the league, he is 6th in goals and 10th in points in the entire league. I think most of us on this board know he's good, but he is on the border of superstar/elite...and I don't think he gets that recognition.

Part of me would like to see a poll just to see how wildly the results swing game to game. I get the impression they results of the poll would swing more after a single win or a single loss than they would be over the longer term actual moves in the standings.

Ok, I obviously never played hockey at a higher level than recreation...but... -As fighting goes away and hits are more regulated, speed/quickness/'shiftiness' becomes slightly more important than strength used to be -Speaking from experience on the ice, a really big, strong guy won't come out ahead of a collision on the ice vs a thinner guy IF the thin guy has great balance and can 'regulate' himself on his skates better than the 'bigger guy'. -Endurance. Endurance I think is become a huge issue the last 10-15 years in hockey. Carrying around any un-needed weight hurts you and makes you a liability at the end of any shift over 45 seconds.

Up until next week, I though Cozens needed to be benched, demoted, etc. I changed my mind on that last week. He is playing his game. He is 'playing' pretty much the same as he did 2 years ago. He is just in a 'shooting slump'. I know people say 'give him new linemates' or 'he needs to be moved to wing**' or 'move him to the 4th line'. I get the frustration, but honestly he is PLAYING almost the exact same way he did 2 years ago positionally, maybe getting even more shots. He just needs to start converting. His game is no different at all EXCEPT for accuracy. And if you look at his career, he is a very, VERY streaky shooter. He goes months at a time shooting as well as Thompson, then a month or two shooting under 5%. No rhyme or reason for it...its random..and that is who he is. So, you just wait for him to emerge from this shooting slump. No new teammate, no new line, no new position will help that. We are into 5 seasons of proof that that is who he is regarding shooting. Now, LONG term, the question is.....you are going to get shooting streaks out of him, but what is he OVERALL? Is he as 12% shooter? a 9% shooter? a 7% shooter? You are always going to get streakiness out of him, but IF you determin he is a 10-12% shooter overall, he's your 2nd line center. If he is a 7-9% shooter then even with his 'streakiness', you are wasting valuable minutes giving them to Cozens. ** I personally do think his style of play is better at wing, but it appears no one in coaching/management is going to make that change.

Well, yeah most of recent history, but remember last year they were on the positive side of things ( just barely at a +2, but they WERE positive for the first time in years.)

And any assists given on 'goal scorer goals' are even worse. You are listing very specific examples. I have not mapped out every single goal scored by him or anyone else in the NHL, but to me its obvious that his goals are mostly scored when 'replacement level players' in the exact same situation would not have scored them. OVERALL, I place much higher value on the ONE goal scored than I do on the 'up to' 2 assists given.

9 game for Mitts this season, 5 goals and 7 assists (46 goal, 64 assist, 110 point per 82 pace). I don't think that pace will keep going at that rate, and in the first few games he had some pretty bad defensive zone coverage issues, but right how he's fitting in nicely. If he does keep going at even a pace close to this, this would be one example of "the guy who doesn't reach his peak at 22, but keeps getting better every year, through age, 23, 24, even 25."

If we take that back to the topic at hand... Tage.... There is a valid point to be made... I don't agree with it. Totally... That assists can be just as valuable as goals. Yes, I agree they can be but overall I think goals are more important. If it was really easy to do, what Zach Hyman... Or Tim Kerr... Or Dave Andreychuk did.... A lot more players who score 10 goals a year would be doing that and putting up 30 up to 50. But seriously now back to Thompson... I think watching him play... I think most people would agree that he doesn't get those Zach Hyman type goals. Tage is creating his own space, and his shot is one of the best in the league. Thompson might be one of the top examples of someone who gets his goals as a result of his own talent and work, not just tapping in someone else's leftovers.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be awarded. I'm saying that when I evaluate a player, goals are SO much more important than assists.

I'll raise you and say point percentage is what counts. Everyone hasn't played the same number of games. By the end of they year everyone will, and point percentage is what matters (I think there was a time a few years ago when a couple teams had games canceled that weren't made up, of there was a possibility they would not be made up, and the NHL said point percentage would determine playoffs, not total points). "Total points" is the the mechanism the standings use to consistency of display of standings. So by point percentage, They are in a 4 way tie for 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th in the division.

Well, 2 things: -first, for every goal scored, there are 2 assists given. So by math, an assist is worth half of a goal. -2nd, sure every once in a while, a goal is scored by deflecting off of someone, but the goal is the ultimate thing to do. An assist can be given if someone is the last one to touch the puck before the scorer, many, I would say MOST goals scored have a lot more skill involved by the scorer than the people who are handed out assists.

I watch these games and I have mixed feelings: -Growing up I liked the leafs as a little kid, not as much as the Sabres, but seeing them on HNIC, I grew to have some kind of attachment to them. -I lived near Boston for 5 years, and just like Toronto as a kid, having access to all the Bruins games and talk radio, I became aquainted with the players and started to like them a bit. -After moving back to Western NY, and seeing things with the Sabres, Bruins, and Toronto the last decade, I don't like either of them anymore. But when it comes down to it, I actually SLIGHLTLY favor the Bruins over the leafs. Why? the Fans. Now Bruins and Boston fans in general can be pretty bad, but being exposed to both, Leaf fans can be much more intolerable than Boston fans. Boston fans are spoiled and arroagant, but not much more than any other fanbase. However, Leaf fans? No fanbase I have ever experienced is as arrogant, thinks the Refs are against their team more, thinks they have the best players simply because they 'are Toronto" and "of course EVERYONE wants to play there". I actually have witnessed Bruins fans Legit say they weren't the best team when they lose and give the other team credit. If you get to that with leaf fans, its only after 10,000 posts or words written about how they were 'wronged'.

I watched some of the goals allowed: 1st goal allowed. This is on the forwards, mostly the wingers. basically the D are down low, and the goal is scored when the forwards miss coverage. Both Defensemen are down low, and at points both McLeod and Kulich go deep. Greenway is positioned very well in front of the net, but for most of the 3-4 seconds before the goal is scored, he is the ONLY one and he can't pick up everyone. So again, its probably mis-communication between all 3 of them, but both McLeod and Kulich looked a bit lost and left open spots. 2nd goal allowed: I can't really pin this on any one player. The team was running around a bit, but a shot was taken from near the blue line that was partially screened, UPL made the save but a rebound just happened to fall right to the Goal scorers stick. No one out of position really at all. If anything the whole thing started well before the goal was scored when the Sabres had the puck and couldn't get it out. Dahlin had the puck in the corner and didn't control it well forcing him to flip it up the boards to Cozens, and Cozens didn't quite handle it. Again, not a blatant error by either of them, but it was a turnover that led to this, 1/2 of it on Dahlin, 1/2 on Cozens. 3rd goal allowed: Dahlin tried to pass the puck to Thompson in the offensive zone but Tage was covered and fumbled it. All the other forwards were not in good position (none of the 3 on the boards, giving Dahlin no good options. Dahlin could have held it but he tried to force it to Tage. That part of it I'd put on the wingers (for not being on the boards to be available for a pass) and Dahlin for forcing a pass when he could have held it. Then Raymond just took the puck down the ice, at one point it looked like it would be a 3-on-1 but it turned only to a 2-on-1. Dahlin actually made a nice play to slide and try to take the shot away, but Raymond made a really really nice shot. I'd want UPL to save it, but it was a good shot. This one is split evenly between the wingers in the offensive zone, Dahlin for a bad choice to make the pass, and then UPL for not making a save (although a tough one). I think Peterka was playing the other point opposite Dahlin (I think) and he just wasn't in a defensive position. The point guys on the PP are responsible not for scoring so much, but for keeping the puck moving. I'd rather the Sabres actually go with 2 D-men back there because I think they gain little from putting a forward on the point, but lose what D-man would give you knowing when and how to get back. UPL could have made that one save, but despite that he played well. Good actually. The defensemen all had a pretty good game too, no major mistakes on the goals allowed. For most of the game, the team played very positionally sound.

Hopefully what we have now is the best case scenario for him. 1.) he gets rest to get healthy. 2.) he is still part of the team so he can watch the games, watch practice, and see and absorb what is different from what he did last year. 3.) the team is currently playing well while he is out so there is no need to rush him back, especially with Aube-Kubel likely to play soon.

.500 won't make the playoffs because they are listing the standing in terms of pure points, but the season ends with every team playing the same number of games. Points per game (how the season ends) has them tied with Detroit and Toronto for 4th in the division, and a 4 way tie with those 3 teams plus Columbus for 9th-12th in the conference. So when you look at it that way, they are still looking up at a wild card spot to New Jersey (currently 8th in the conference with .545 points, sabres at .500) Of course, in recent years have they started poorlyand we just wanted them to be realistically within a few points of the playoffs, or in a spot, by Thanksgiving. If they keep playing well, they should be in that position.

Ok, well I'm about to use, maybe manipulate some numbers to support that he is a top 15, or maybe higher center in the league. First a couple of opinions: 1.) I personally value goals a LOT more than points. A goal to me is worth 2 times, if not more a primary assist. Secondary assists are pretty much useless to me. Well not totally useless, but to me just about as good as a 'plus' on 'plus-minus'. 2.) I think Tage is above-average-to-good without the puck. His size isn't so much for hitting, but for taking up passing lanes. Also, when he is FOCUSED on defense (not looking to break out of the zone) I think he is actually good. 3.) a few of us have maintained that Tage played through an injury the first half of last year that impacted his performance. We do know he had an injury. We do know it was some kind of an upper body injury. We do know that Austin Matthews played through a similar injury the year before and his numbers dipped by almost the same percentages as Tage (goals, shooting percentage) and then when he had an offseason to heal, he came back better than ever. Now as for scoring. To account for that possible period he was playing through injury, take a look at breaking down his production every year since he was made a center (his 4th season now) by half seasons: 1st half of 2021-22: 39 games played, 14 goals in 39 games (29 goal pace per 82) 2nd half of 21-22: 39 games played, 24 goals in 39 games (50 goal pace) 1st half of 22-23: 39 games played, 31 goals in 39 games (65 goal pace) 2nd half of 22-23: 39 games played, 16 goals in 39 games (34 goal pace) 1st part of season through Feb 25: 48 games played, 16 goals in 36 games (27 goal pace per 82) I chose this date because everyting seemed to "click" after (this is when he was playing through the time closest to his injury) 2nd part after Feb 26: 23 games played, 13 goals in 35 games (46 goal pace) 1st part of 2024-25 so far: 9 games played, 7 goals in 9 games (64 goal pace per 82) Take out the only time we know he was playing through an injury (1st part of last season) and you get 105 goals in 200 games played since he became a center, or a 43 per 80 pace. Over half-season stretches, he is at least 'very good' and some stretches where he an 'elite' goal scorer/producer. So on one hand, yes, I split last season up in the way to make it look better for the 2nd part, but that is BECAUSE the farther he got away from the injury, the better he played. Now it was clear to me, and many others, he was playing injured the first half of last year. NHL edge numbers supported that (his skating speed was slightly lower and his shot speed was noticably lower.) Since he became a center, that is his worst production. If you look at his other production (goals per game, goals per 82, however you want to show it), he is one of the better goal scorers in the league. So, a guy who I think is pretty decent (average to above average) without the puck, and someone with goal production numbers like that, (top 10 in the league, maybe top 5 if you take out when he was playing through an injury), and yeah, he's top 15 to me, maybe much higher. Again, That is what I think, and I chose to present numbers to support that view, but the numbers ARE real.

Well, putting a gif up there dismissing someone else's post or taking a shot at what they say, I don't consider that humor, its kinda rude.

To me it doesn't look like a joke either. It looks like somebody who doesn't like what's getting said.... And that's your cute way to dismiss the other side of the argument. I agree with the new guy.

I was in and out with the game, didn't see the whole thing. I missed a lot. What happened to Power? he's listed as only getting 10 minutes of ice time?

So through 9 games, 7 goals and 11 points. No sarcasm here at all with this question....anyone who think he isn't in (or close to) the top 15 change their mind?

Lots of ideas above are pretty good. The ones I like the most: First by a mile: You must be cap compliant in the playoffs -Expand roster size. I can't see why the players wouldn't like that. At least to allow a 3rd goalie. Lot of Vet 35+ year old guys would love this one I'm sure. -You are eligible for the AHL a year earlier now than going back to Junior. Guess what, the junior leagues will survive that isn't going to kill them. -College rule. We all know that a player drafted can just go to college for 4 years and then he is a free agent. How about simply making it..once you draft a player, you retain his rights until he is 23 or 24, or he has to play 2+ years PROFESSIONAL before you relinquish his rights? Some variation of that. -Does it need to be in the CBA? probably not, but WHITE UNIFORMS AT HOME! -How about this (more for the fans than the players). Start times. A lot of east coast teams have weekend games that start early. Boston has a lot, Buffalo has some. I have noticed over the last few years that Boston will sometimes play west coast teams during the afternoon, when back home that means the games start for THOSE fans at 10am. Of course, we know on west coast trips games start here at 10 or 10:30pm. Make an EFFORT to flip that. When on a west coast trip, the east coast team will often have games in L.A., Vancouver, san jose, etc be AFTERNOON start times locally on the weekend (so they are late afternoon here.) and East coast teams on the west coast during the week, start the games 30 minutes earlier? every bit helps. But West coast teams traveling east...under NO circumstance should a west coast team playing in the easter time zone have to play an afternoon game. An example of the above is Boston played Arizona at 1pm on Saturday in Dec 9 of last year...The Bruins played the Kings Sat Feb 17 at 12:30 in boston (9:30am in LA). Make an effort to make things better both ways for the fans. -I'd also like to see buyouts be a little less punitive in terms of cap hit. Now, I don't want them to be 'free' and have no cap consequences. If you sign a bad deal you should pay for it. But maybe don't stretch the penalty out quite as much. I like the idea, but if this had been in place, every team would have those extra slots so Giordano and Reimer would have probably already picked a different team.

It makes sense on the surface and its a better explanation than anything else I've heard but still, it doesn't explain that he came back after it LAST year and played pretty well for 1/3 of a season: -He scored in 4 of his first 7 games right after he came back last December -Last year he had 9 goals in 27 games after coming back (a 27-28 goal pace per 82) -Since he came back not only did he do that right away, but he's had another whole offseason to heal up beyond that. When you DO look at his NHL edge numbers, he isn't skating as well. 2 years ago before the injury his top speed was 22.4mph, which is/was above average for the league. This year, his top speed is all the way down to 21.05, which is well below average for the league. HOWEVER, last year when he came back from the injury he was at 21.86. So that leads to 2 questions, why is his top skating speed SO much below what it was 2 years ago...but more importantly, why is it so much below even LAST year, right after he came back from the injury? (random chance? not enough sample size yet?)